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This being my first season playing SC2 I've never been through a season lock before. So I felt like mentioning some of my thoughts and likes/dislikes about the current system.
tldr:
Divisions are pointless
Bonus pool is counterproductive
Ladder is more fun (for me) without bonus pool even with pointless divisons
Fix by:
Remove bonus pool
Show MMR!
Remove divisions or make set number of divisions per league
Divisions
Lets face it, the divisions are pointless, especially at the lowest levels where most of the players are (I'm Silver) there are so many players and therefore so many divisions that being "top 8" doesn't mean crap. On top of that the divisions are completely random and don't take into account players who only play a few games in a season. My division started up about a month into the season. When I got promoted it was a few days before much of anyone had any games in my division. Now that the lock is happening most of my division still has no activity. (The guy in 50th place has played 8 games this season)
Bonus Pool
There recently was a very good thread up about removing the bonus pool (I can't find it right now) and it did an amazing job of helping me understand what it is that I don't like about it. The short of it is that it's a system that essentially punishes you for not being active. It's supposed to be a system like the rested system in WoW to help you catch up if you fall behind due to lack of activity I think, but it doesn't do that in the slightest. Not only that, but with a skill based point system (as the ladder is supposed to be) then I don't see a need for this "rested boost" idea at all. You want to get higher than the guy who never plays? Than play better than he did and get higher.
One downside to removing bonus pool is that someone who goes on a crazy hot streak (or runs into a lot of people losing on purpose to drop leagues) will possibly gain a lot of points than sit at the top of the division trying to hold his spot. This could make it hard to catch that guy, BUT I think it isn't at all game breaking in the fact that people who are playing consistently will have the ability (given that they win enough/the right games) to gain more points than the one waiting and passing him up. In fact I think that the fact people are promoted mid season would be a larger problem than people sitting and holding points. Though I like mid season promotions as they're so rewarding to the player, and I see no need to remove anything that improves progression as progression is the main point of a ladder system in my opinion.
Also the current bonus pool system doesn't give you the feeling of progression, it gives you the feeling of a treadmill. You don't feel like you are getting better, you feel like you are falling behind until you've used up all your bonus pool to get back to where you were before. Yes people move positions in the ladder more because of this, but with positions being so fluid I feel that makes them mean less.
Fun:
While this has all been personal feelings, this is the first time that I've mentioned fun. Fun is important in a game, but not everyone thinks that the same things are fun. For example take WoW. I used to be a huge WoW player, but what I liked about the game wasn't what other people liked about the game and as expansions and things came out they slowly removed all of the things that gave me enjoyment. I used to be mad about this, saying that Blizz screwed up the game, but I've recently just come to realize that what that kind of game is now isn't a game that I enjoy. Other people seem to and that's great for them, but it's not my thing anymore. That's neither good nor bad, it's just different. (I do feel like they screwed up with Diablo 3, but that's different.  )
So what is fun? For me, I've found that the ladder is a lot more fun when there are no bonus pool points to worry about. I know the divisions are pointless, but I find myself wanting to move up so I can get the accolade for finishing higher in the (pointless) division. While the bonus pool is in effect I know there are a lot of non skill related points floating around, but now that it's just a not optimal form of elo I find myself wanting to play more to try and progress... Yes, now that there are no bonus pool points I feel like I am progressing up the ladder where I didn't feel that way at all before.
The Fix:
I feel like it's not right to put up anything complaining about things (as I have been) without trying to throw around some ideas that will fix the problems you see. So here is a short list of a few things that I would like to see happen with the ladder system which I feel will make it better and most importantly more enjoyable for me. Which means your mileage may vary. I'm happy to talk about different ideas and please feel free to disagree with me as that's where discussion comes from, but I don't want to see the standard forum response of "you're stupid cause I wouldn't like that" kind of bs.
[b]Remove the Bonus pool: This is the most important to me. Read above, the bonus pool accomplishes nothing good for anyone other than maybe making people think they're slightly better than they are because they get free points. Removing the bonus pool would take the treadmill feeling out of the ladder, and at least for me make it feel a lot more entertaining.
Show the MMR Why hide the MMR? This makes no sense to me at all! It's an elo system, it's a good system. Chess has used this system since the 70's. There's no need to hide it! If you're worried that people will get ladder anxiety from seeing it drop when they're doing bad, well they're going to have an "unranked" way to play where their MMR can remain hidden. Best of both worlds.
Use League positions rather than Divisions With divisions being pointless because there are so many of them, why not just get rid of them? I prefer to look at SC2 ranks and see that I am currently the 5340th silver player on the Americas Server than the 8th ranked in Reaper Rho. If you are really really REALLY dedicated to the division system, then have there be a set number of divisions. 10 Divisions per league no matter what with varying numbers in each. Right now that would be roughly 5k people per division so working your way to the top would mean something. Also with set numbers of divisions you could draw conclusions from it. They would always have roughly the same number of people and would be large enough to ignore inactivity so if you're in the top 100 you know you're in the top 1000 (with 10 divisions) players in your league.
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Mmh i think your reflection is just about the superficial aspect. it's not necessary wrong, but the bonus points aren't the main problem in the lack of fun in the ladder.
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Then what do you think is Split Behemoth? Remember this is about the ladder system, not the game. For instance I can't say that the elo system sucks because I don't like LoL, You have to assume that the game itself is not the thing holding back the system to make the system as good as it can be.
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The fact is Blizzard didn't do the job completely. The ladder is supposed to be made in a competitive mind, but nothing is done to give him some important place on the sc2 life. Divisions are just luck, a NA master can be a KR plat ... and the tension is too damn high for a goddamn practice place. how many cheeses do you eat during a ladder session.
For me Blizzard must make a choice : the ladder is a competitive place or not ?
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I'm not sure I fully understand your statements Split. But I'll address my thoughts on what I think you're saying.
As far as Leagues being different per server. There is no helping that. The servers pretty much have to work independently of each other because lag between players trying to play on a global server would make things terrible, and if they aren't playing against each other than it's unfair to compare them. To use a real sports example a person who couldn't start in the NFL can always go to Europe to start in the NFL Europe. Not an excellent analogy but it works. Also if you want to be in the most competitive league with the new stuff in HotS I hear you can play on any server you like without buying multiple copies of the game.
As far as cheeses go. They're a part of the game. If they bother you a lot you should read Playing to Win. It's a free book online, the section there talks about creating your own subset of rules within a game (in this case cheeses) and then getting mad when other people don't adhere to them. Since I like analogies a good way to think of it is that getting mad at cheeses (a perfectly acceptable way to play) is the same as someone getting mad at you for playing Protoss and building colossus because they have determined that using colossus is wrong. That being said I don't like cheesing personally. I'm not against it but I've never cannon rushed (yet) or anything though I do often do a (really crappy) 4 gate in PvP simply because I can't seem to figure out any other decent strategies.
Sorry if I didn't address your point. Mostly I don't get the "competitive place or not" statement. Maybe if you put up a suggestion for how they can fix the problem I'll understand you better. Also if you feel that the ladder is stressful then you might also need to learn how to separate your ego from your win percentage. Losses are good! You have the most to learn from them. (Check out Josh Waitzkins book the Art of Learning for more on that topic )
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1st question : What is the NFL ? O_o
The idea of deleting the bonus pool is okay for me, for most of the arguments you are giving.
The main problem is, for me, that the main reward in the sc2 world is upping of division. But you are not upping because you finish top 8 of your division or beacause you reached the 1000 pts.
For me Blizzard should 1st shut down up/down during a season. Your placement must be evaluated at the beginning of a new season, or during if you join late. At the end you can organize a small competition, like the tournaments organized on War3, with the top 8 of a division for exemple. You give "winners" a new avatar and a assured up. Can be great no ?
The second thing is to keep the training ladder of Hots. This is so great !
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Another thing is to value to internal rivality of a division with a little system of intern chatbox, and a priority given to intra-division games on the ladder, with of course a bonus of points.
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Sorry, the NFL is the National (American) Football League. Figured it might be popular enough to work across other countries too, but like I said that wasn't the greatest analogy anyway.
Okay so I see what you're saying now.
As far as removing mid season promotions I am on the fence. (I think they already took out mid season demotions) In some ways it is good it makes your division mean more as the best players aren't leaving constantly. However as you said, changing leagues is the main goal of most players, so having to wait 2 months to get your promotions is frustrating as well. It's the last reason that has me in favor of keeping mid season promotions, but I could get behind losing it to.
Do you think that the divisions really have any meaning anyway? Like I said there are 500 divisions in the silver league on the Americas server alone. And the fact that each has only 100 people (and the number of people who are inactive at lower levels) means that there is a huge chance that a lot in your division will be completely inactive. (More than 50 in mine are for example)
So what if instead, like I suggested, you just remove the divisions and give an overall ranking of the division as a whole? Then you will know exactly where you stand (on your server) in your league and moving up will be rewarding. I could even get behind having a lot fewer divisions with a lot of players in each.
As far as determining promotions, I kinda like the system they have now, the only problem with it is that it is hidden. If your MMR was shown as well as the required MMR for promotion you could see the goal you're shooting for! Then you could judge your progress by that as well as your overall standing in the division. This to me seems a great way to handle that. If your goal is to be the top of the platinum league then you could judge it by that in game, if your goal was to get promoted to diamond than on your profile it could say something like "MMR = 1305 Required MMR for next promotion = 1350" and you'd know you were getting close. You'd probably have to add something explaining why you had an MMR of over 1350 but not promoted yet in cases where they're waiting for it to settle down, or just add something like "awaiting promotion" whenever that happens, simple enough. And you could do these things IN GAME without needing external sites/programs to tell you!!
I love the idea of inter divisional tournaments and such except for the logistics behind getting it to work. Trying to get a RO8 tourney going with people who have different schedules and times they can do things would be hell to set up and would probably take weeks if not months to complete. For instance I play almost exclusively late at night, that's when I have time, but for someone who can only play at say 2pm (my time) then it would be hard to find a day we could both play. Though I would like to see a system on Battle net to set up custom tourneys.
As far as the training ladder and such I think that sort of thing is great. It's hard to ruin something by having too many options/systems. My comments are just in regards to tweaking the ladder system, not changing/removing any other systems in place.
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Ahah American Football simply doesn't exist in France XD But we know the NBA !
The idea of a "global division" is bad i think : what is cooler, beiing 8th of 250 or 800th of 250k ? The system of tourney is suggest is without RO8 and that kind of stuff. You just a date (for exemple 3 days !) and you have to play 7 or 10 games to give you a record. For exemple a 5-0-2 player will pass but a 3-0-4 player don't know till the end. The idea is just to have 20/25 of newscommers in a division.
10 will be upper, 10 downers and the 5 others players with extreme MMR (like pros upping accounts). The next season, you keep the division and add new players !
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With that system MMR becomes only usefull for "rapid" up for smurfs or things like that, and players only plays on their league.
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As far as the server wide division I would personally prefer to be 8th out of 50k. Sure it would be difficult, but if/when you got there it would be a real achievement (much like hitting GM) As it stands now my 8th/100 means absolutely nothing. (In fact my MMR according to SC2 Gears says I'm likely to end up in bronze again after my placement). This is why you could have a lot fewer divisions without a set number of people in each. Right now it's that there are X numbers of divisions with 100 people in all of them. Instead you could do there are 10 divisions with Y number of people in each. You instead would be something like 400th/5k rather than 8th/100 but it would have meaning and wouldn't hurt the ego as much as being 4k/50k.
The tournament you're suggesting is nothing other than a smaller version of the ladder itself (but with a set games amount). Which doesn't make it bad, but I could see problems arising with some people getting a lucky streak of running into people throwing games. I personally am a large fan of the MMR setup that they have, I just wish it wasn't hidden. (They could always put it in options to show MMR so you could hide it if you want )
Looks like we might just need to agree to disagree, which is fine. Like I said, different people find different things to be fun.
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EPT
