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I have stumbled upon a very interesting theory about Attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Not only it's approach is very enlightening into how the "disorder" might work it also creates possible links between it and a bunch of other psychological differences such as being interested in gaming in general and RTS games in particular (the gaming part is not in the article though, I am bringing it up myself).
The article itself. Though it says ADD it basicly means ADHD.
http://www.sdc.org/~pwolf/addpost.html
Important parts
ADD, or attention-deficit disorder, is not new. In fact, it has been around for tens of thousands of years. Thom Hartmann, in his book, Attention Deficit Disorder: A New Perspective, gives the interesting hypothesis that ADD is an adaptation, genetically passed on, to optimize life as a "hunter." A hunter needs to be continually aware of his surroundings, so his attention will quickly focus on anything that may be a threat or opportunity. He (or, of course, she) must be instantly ready to drop everything and begin another task such as following a fresher trail, instantly responding to danger, etc. As a hunter, novelty, constantly monitoring the surroundings, and creativity are the most important requirements for success. There is no reason to be concerned with time, so when hunting is poor, there is no reason to be attentive or even to stay awake. On the other hand, when the game is afoot, the hunter is fully ready to jump into it totally, and takes no mind of time. Since this is an occupation where there is little latitude for mistakes, social niceties are not appropriate. ADD is not a personality trait, or a defect, but a specialized adaptation. Unfortunately, although it is highly adapted to one particular set of activities, it is not suited to some tasks which are very common in our society. It is highly effective for handling difficult and creative tasks that require the ability to see connections between highly disparate things, such as with engineering, or inventing or handling critical and emergency situations.
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Our society, schools in particular, are made for the "farmer." So are most workplaces (not all!). Attention must be maintained for extended periods, and routine is very important. Timing and scheduling are extremely important. Unfortunately, the hunter's attention is not geared to this, making it very hard to concentrate on routine. Distractions are instantly the center of attention. And if there is not enough stimulation, then the awareness shuts down, causing "spacing out" or falling asleep or just plain distraction that leads to extremely poor performance.
ADD is a performance "disorder." It is actually a misnomer, because it is not an inability to concentrate. In fact, the ADDer has an extremely great ability to concentrate, as long as the task is suitable for it. In the proper surroundings, the ADDer can spend endless hours immersed in a task. This is called "hyperfocusing," and is an extremely focused and productive ability. We all are acquainted with individuals who read entire textbooks on highly technical matter in a couple of days, and learn it better than they could in months of classroom instruction; this is typical ADD hyperfocusing, It requires a tremendous expenditure of energy, and time disappears during this period. For the ADDer, this is highly pleasurable, because it is using the creative and focusing abilities to the maximum.
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Many supervisors and teachers expect the steady concentration from everyone, but the ADDer is not suited to this. It is not a moral issue, or a lack of effort. If an otherwise sound car runs out of gas, the efforts of the driver are immaterial. And, ADD is a result of critically low levels of transmitters, most notably serotonin, norepinephrine (adrenaline) and dopamine. Dopamine is the equivalent of "gasoline" for a car. The average farmer type who is in the great majority have genetically and constitutionally a steady supply of this neurotransmitter, enabling attention to be focused and alertness to be sufficient. The hunter, though, has no steady supply, and constitutionally must rely on the environment to supply enough stimulation to secrete enough dopamine to function, or the hunter is left "high and dry" with a very low level, too low to keep focused on any non-novel task. What causes high levels of dopamine to be released is stimulation from the environment. This can be caused by anger, guilt, fear, enthusiasm, pain, or novelty; or with stimulant medication. Many ADDers find that they self-medicate with coffee, chocolate, loud music, provocative behavior, etc.
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Of course teachers and parents and employers say to just try and concentrate, and stop being lazy. Novelty and challenge (and threat, guilt, suffering, anger, and a host of other unpleasant emotions) can stimulate enough neurotransmitters to keep alert at first, but if the environment is not cooperating, the ADDer just "runs out of gas." It is not a matter of lack of desire or effort; if your car is out of gas, trying hard and stomping on the gas petal will not work. As a result, attention begins to diminish, and anything at all that can catch the eye is focused on, providing some small amount of stimulation.
In case you got interested I HIGHLY recommend you read the entire article, it is so worth it.
About gaming. Being some sort of a virtual warrior or any other form of competition surely provides stimulation and is in fact very consistent with a hunter mentality. Is it what really hooks lots of gamers up? Are there many ADHDers among the gamers population? RTS games are also special in that respect because: 1) they are competitive, 2) they are complicated, 3) they are fast-paced. All of that provides the most intense stimulation which is so addictive that some people can't let it go for a decade now.
Here is the list of the points made in the article I can strongly relate to (I'd like to see yours as well):
"hyperfocusing"
This is something I have noticed a long time ago. Under the right circumstances I can be incredibly productive.
Many ADDers find that they self-medicate with coffee, chocolate, loud music
Wow. Direct hit. I have noticed a long time ago that somehow loud music helps my performance. Even if I'm reading and it can be thought of as a distraction it actually helps. The music that helps is usually some with heavy beat like house, electro, or pop (with minimum lirics).
ADDers often are criticized for not paying attention, interrupting, and wandering away in the middle of conversations. This is not intentional impoliteness. It is merely that some distraction has forced attention elsewhere; since the ADDer depends on outside stimulation to keep functioning, attention often gets focused on the greater source of stimulation, which may be other than what either party intends.
Yes yes yes. I find it so hard to chat with people 1on1 when I have no opportunity to walk away (in my thoughts) for a minute. Such chats are rarely very interesting all the way and not only it bores me and I start not to pay attention I also get the feeling that I'm boring the other person to death and that makes me wonna just say goodbye and leave. Group chats of 5+ people are much better though. It allows to talk when you want and when you have something important or funny to say.
"Lack of sustained effort"
Oh god, how much troubles I've had with my parents over this one.
Novelty and challenge (and threat, guilt, suffering, anger, and a host of other unpleasant emotions) can stimulate enough neurotransmitters to keep alert at first, but if the environment is not cooperating, the ADDer just "runs out of gas."
I just cant stress this enough. The stimulation does not necessarily have to be from the outside, you can generate it internally. But it doesnt always work. For example in the university the threat and guilt keeps you studying at first. But as you get away with it time after time it becomes much less effective.
Lack of clarity is a bad idea, unless you want the typically highly imaginative ADDer to creatively interpret your statements in a few dozen ways, many of which you may not have considered.
oh how many times I've been through that.
but handles crises well (because of the high stimulation it provides)
true, at least it comes with perks. Though sometimes I worry about minor stuff the really important events and situations dont really touch me. It just didn't make sense until now.
often great at visualization
oh the erotic fantacies I've had when I was a kid...
but often bad at taking serial verbal instructions. Distractibility causes very poor retention, especially verbally
lool so true. Im just super terrible at this. I can remember interconnected thoughts alright. But if a series of unrelated stuff goes on every time my attention jumps to another topic the previous one is as good as gone. This is the main reason why I never remember somebody's name on first introduction. I need to attach the name to something. If I dont have at least a basic mental image of a person the name will be forgot in seconds.
excellent peripheral vision
haha true. Love staring at girls without staring.
extremely high scores on SAT and intelligence tests, which leads to more poor self-esteem and accusations of laziness when goals are not met, which is very often
oh well, the story of my life.
and often insensitive to social cues
yap
Another trait is that they are extremely skilled in visualization due to a unique brain wiring, but often at the expense of verbal ability
hate verbal questions on IQ test. Usually if I dont see the answer on the first read I would just skip the question and return only when everything else is done.
Since linear time is an alien abstraction, frequent reminders about meetings and deadlines are needed. This can be done with a pager, or electronic notepad.
I absolutely dont have any sense of time. Thanks god for an organizer on a smartphone.
On November 16 2012 14:19 iamho wrote:
These questions sound like the kind of thing everyone would answer yes to. "Are you really alert sometimes but other times not?" "Are you sometimes lazy but productive at other times?" Not to mention everyone thinks they're an underperforming genius, socially awkward, and pretty much everything else on that list.
I agree to an extent. What we have here is like basicly everything in personality theory - a personality scale. One extreme is a perfect hunter, who doesn't waste energy at all (as much as it is physically possible) without stimulation and gets extreme spike in performance when it is needed. The other extreme is a perfect farmer who has perfect boredom tolerance and thus just doesn't need the increased performance. A normal person would be somewhere at the middle: a hunter-farmer mix with characteristics of both that is average boredom tolerance and average ability to improve performance under stimuli. So to be an ADHD you should be very close to the perfect hunter extreme, that is not just have those characteristics to some extent, but to be able to relate to them strongly. When I was reading I had a feeling the person was writing exactly about me. I am into personality psychology for 5 years now and I basicly never get this feeling. Also I think in a community like TL we should have a disproportionally huge amount of ADHDs.
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my god I think I have this... it actually explains a lot
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I don't know if I have this, but I can relate to soooo many of these things. For example, I seriously CANNOT study without music or some other relevant ambiental noise, I just can't focus. I also drive better when I'm alone, but not because of the loneliness, but because my loud ass music allows me to focus ten times as much, I get easily distracted, and usually get the whole "you never pay attention" shit from teachers, but they get surprised when I remember the stuff they tell me, I just can't seem to look at them enough or be able to stand still or something, which leads them to believe I'm not interested in anything
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yeah it's not just that I study better with music, but I absolutely can't study whatsoever if there are any other stimuli in the same room. I can't work with other people, can't work at the library, can't even work with music playing that I don't well enough for it to blend into the background.
but conversely when I actually get focused on something I do have the capacity to work on it for hours. It's just really hard for me to get the necessary concentration going.
And I am a terrible listener, I compulsively finish peoples' sentences, I drum my foot constantly, I can't stand wasting time ever under any circumstances. Even hanging out with friends I get antsy and wish I were somewhere else actually doing something. I thought I just had a lot of energy but this is making me wonder. Plus I do have the mood swings, the feeling of crushing defeat whenever something goes wrong —
ogod
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Excellent link to an excellent article, with an excellent commentary following!
I posses the neurological architecture known as ADHD, and I can echo many of your own personal accounts regarding it.
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About the IQ and verbal abilities from wiki
There has been some controversy as to whether ADHD children with a high IQ have significant impairments. Research has shown that high IQ children with ADHD are more likely to repeat grades and have more social and functional impairments; more than half require additional academic support compared to children without ADHD. Additionally, more than half of high IQ ADHD people experience major depressive disorder or oppositional defiant disorder at some point in their lives. Generalised anxiety disorder, separation anxiety disorder and social phobia is also more common in high IQ ADHD individuals. There is some evidence that high IQ ADHD individuals are not at an increased risk of substance abuse and conduct disorder compared to low and average IQ ADHD young people. High IQ children and adolescents with ADHD can have their high intelligence level missed when standard testing is performed; high IQ ADHD people tend to require more comprehensive testing to detect their true intelligence level.[50] High IQ ADHD children have a unique neuropsychological profile which typically shows a gap of 20 points or more between the verbal IQ and the performance IQ when tested on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children; high IQ children without ADHD do not usually present with this sizable gap
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So.. If I said 100% Yes, to about every single one of those except for one, would you say it's fair enough.that I can self diagnosis myself with ADHD? xD
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On November 16 2012 11:53 clever_us wrote:
my god I think I have this... it actually explains a lot
The marketing of drugs... the trickle down effect is real!
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this is me 100% cept for time. though i forget about things that i am going to do (be on time, arrangements, chores i promised my gf..) i can actually predict the time of the day when anyone asks me within a margin of a couple mins almost every time (90+%) and have no idea why i know the time.
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These questions sound like the kind of thing everyone would answer yes to. "Are you really alert sometimes but other times not?" "Are you sometimes lazy but productive at other times?" Not to mention everyone thinks they're an underperforming genius, socially awkward, and pretty much everything else on that list.
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Yes, you found me.
Loud music/Video Games epic win
4 hour chess game with 1000 calculations of hyper focus epic epic win.
Running out of gas and falling asleep due to a lack of stimulants all the time.
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On November 16 2012 14:19 iamho wrote:
These questions sound like the kind of thing everyone would answer yes to. "Are you really alert sometimes but other times not?" "Are you sometimes lazy but productive at other times?" Not to mention everyone thinks they're an underperforming genius, socially awkward, and pretty much everything else on that list.
Haha, I have to say I agree with it. I've always thought a good majority of the diagnosed ADD/ADHD cases (among others) are just an exuse for most doctors to prescribe you with drugs. But, I'm not an expert on the matter, so I wouldn't know.
All in all though, I have to say, I do relate with a huge chunk of the things described in the OP. Not sure if I really suffer from ADHD though, especially considering I was a really quiet and shy kid.
A few things I could relate to:
-hyperfocusing (I really have to like a subject or feel the pressure to start working on something, but I can power through huge amount of hours working at something and getting it done in time, I just associated it to "being able to work under pressure" and "being able to manage my time")
-Spacing out (I think this is one one that hit me the most. If I'm not doing something that is really calling my attention, I can really space out badly, sometimes not even noticing people talking to me or a few changes in a place, or in someone's house. It's a recurring joke among my family and friends)
-bad at taking verbal instructions (seriously, people can tell me stuff and I might forget it in the next few minutes. That and the description about linear time brings me to forget a shitcrap of stuff, all the time. I've gotten used to using my smartphone for all kinds of reminders...seriously, even stupid stuff I'm supposed to remember 10 minutes from now)
-Problems with lack of clarity (happens to me all the time, but I don't really think it through. People just tell me easy stuff and sometime I misunderstand, like, badly. I have quite a few examples, like getting wrong amounts of stuff, not understanding less-than-clear description of places when I'm looking for stuff, etc)
-Interrupting, not paying attention, etc (Yeah, I tend to finish people's phrases sometimes, and I do know I get on some people's nerves doing it. Also, space out unless it's a topic I'm interested in, so I tend to skip parts of the conversations and I have some trouble trying to get right back into a convo. I don't really have huge problems with 1v1 conversations, I do have some trouble with small talk, but I tend (at least now) to make it work and not come out as awkward. Actually, now that I've read through it again, I was just thinking about 1v1 chat, and I do that all the time, I stop chatting with people and I don't even realize it. I've had quite a few people getting pisseda t me bout it, like a friend not too long ago, she'd chat me, I'd answer and after a while, casually checking my chats, I'd re-read a message she sent and that I did read and realize I never answered her. Hasn't chat me back in a while.)
-Lack of sustained effort (Yeah, nothing new, then again I'm sure it's like that for alot of people. There are plenty of stuff I just love, or I get interested in for relatively small amounts of time, and I just can do it easily. Out of that, I'm a slacker, and tend to leave stuff until I feel pressured enough to do it...usually at the last minute.)
-Insensitive to social cues (Hmm, yeah, I guess I'm not the only awkward one. Actually, it's been a while since it's been a problem, but I do tend to miss obvious things like girls hitting on me really obviously or people just trying to get me to leave, if anything I tried to learn from experience)
The self-medication, I'm not sure I really suffer from that. I used to hear loud music (rock, mostly power metal) to do homeworks and stuff. As of lately, I alternate music with just setting SC2/Dota2 streams in the back...not a really great idea, but somehow it works in-between checking awesome plays.
At any rate, if anything, it's all speculations ^^ I'm curious though, are there more concrete ways, or tests of sorts, to figure out one's tendency to be affected from ADHD? (short of asking a doctor, of course)
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I think everyone has a small amount of these traits, guys more than girls.
I really think ADHD is mistreated, I never performed well in school, always fell asleep in class, was a "troublemaker" or "problem student", teachers got angry because I never performed to my "full potential", never did my homework, but I'm doing a hell of a lot better than everyone now. I never bothered to get myself diagnosed, but all the teachers thought I had chronic fatigue or ADHD, which didn't make sense when I came out with A+ portfolios and did well in exams without turning up to class. So their instant reaction was, I was not going my full potential, when really not turning up to school actually helped.
For me highschool was the biggest waste of time. Everything I learned on my own outside of school was much more useful to me.
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I wonder, how much of this is applicable to everyone?
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I think that a few percentage of human beings have ADD/ADHD, but I think it's quite overdiagnosed.
I mean, it's completely normal to want immediate reward for things. As a person that loves classical music, I still find myself listening to way more pop-music, because in pop-music, you get your "music-hit" immediately: there's a beat and melody from the first second. In classical music, however, the music builds up etc. If I listen to a 40 minute long classical masterpiece, I will feel much better than listening to a 3 minute long pop song, but since the pop song gives immediate reward, it is so attempting to listen to that one instead. Same goes for everything: I find myself watching more and more 2minute Youtube clips with funny stuff, rather than watching a 20+ minute comedy. Most of the time, a 20+ minute comedy is more thought out and funnier, but since I get my "comedy-hit" from just a 2 minute clip on Youtube, I'd rather just do that. This also applies to studying. If you spend your whole day studying one type of solving integrals or whatever, you will feel like you really learnt a LOT, and you will feel very good, but it's very easy to be tempted into just getting a hint on how to solve it, and then be done with the exercise.
Also, with us growing up playing games and watching TV, no wonder we have a hard time concentrating reading a slow-ass book. We are used to looking at something for maximum of 2 seconds before we see something new, while at the same time being stimulated with sound, and in gaming even with us using our body to push buttons. When you've done that for many hours every day since you were 5, it's rather hard to sit still and concentrate on a book(that you often don't find interesting, if it's a school book).
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I actually think alcohol just slows down the hop-around in our brain.
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On November 16 2012 15:41 Ydriel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 14:19 iamho wrote:
These questions sound like the kind of thing everyone would answer yes to. "Are you really alert sometimes but other times not?" "Are you sometimes lazy but productive at other times?" Not to mention everyone thinks they're an underperforming genius, socially awkward, and pretty much everything else on that list. Haha, I have to say I agree with it. I've always thought a good majority of the diagnosed ADD/ADHD cases (among others) are just an exuse for most doctors to prescribe you with drugs. But, I'm not an expert on the matter, so I wouldn't know. All in all though, I have to say, I do relate with a huge chunk of the things described in the OP. Not sure if I really suffer from ADHD though, especially considering I was a really quiet and shy kid. A few things I could relate to: -hyperfocusing (I really have to like a subject or feel the pressure to start working on something, but I can power through huge amount of hours working at something and getting it done in time, I just associated it to "being able to work under pressure" and "being able to manage my time") -Spacing out (I think this is one one that hit me the most. If I'm not doing something that is really calling my attention, I can really space out badly, sometimes not even noticing people talking to me or a few changes in a place, or in someone's house. It's a recurring joke among my family and friends) -bad at taking verbal instructions (seriously, people can tell me stuff and I might forget it in the next few minutes. That and the description about linear time brings me to forget a shitcrap of stuff, all the time. I've gotten used to using my smartphone for all kinds of reminders...seriously, even stupid stuff I'm supposed to remember 10 minutes from now) -Problems with lack of clarity (happens to me all the time, but I don't really think it through. People just tell me easy stuff and sometime I misunderstand, like, badly. I have quite a few examples, like getting wrong amounts of stuff, not understanding less-than-clear description of places when I'm looking for stuff, etc) -Interrupting, not paying attention, etc (Yeah, I tend to finish people's phrases sometimes, and I do know I get on some people's nerves doing it. Also, space out unless it's a topic I'm interested in, so I tend to skip parts of the conversations and I have some trouble trying to get right back into a convo. I don't really have huge problems with 1v1 conversations, I do have some trouble with small talk, but I tend (at least now) to make it work and not come out as awkward. Actually, now that I've read through it again, I was just thinking about 1v1 chat, and I do that all the time, I stop chatting with people and I don't even realize it. I've had quite a few people getting pisseda t me bout it, like a friend not too long ago, she'd chat me, I'd answer and after a while, casually checking my chats, I'd re-read a message she sent and that I did read and realize I never answered her. Hasn't chat me back in a while.) -Lack of sustained effort (Yeah, nothing new, then again I'm sure it's like that for alot of people. There are plenty of stuff I just love, or I get interested in for relatively small amounts of time, and I just can do it easily. Out of that, I'm a slacker, and tend to leave stuff until I feel pressured enough to do it...usually at the last minute.) -Insensitive to social cues (Hmm, yeah, I guess I'm not the only awkward one. Actually, it's been a while since it's been a problem, but I do tend to miss obvious things like girls hitting on me really obviously or people just trying to get me to leave, if anything I tried to learn from experience) The self-medication, I'm not sure I really suffer from that. I used to hear loud music (rock, mostly power metal) to do homeworks and stuff. As of lately, I alternate music with just setting SC2/Dota2 streams in the back...not a really great idea, but somehow it works in-between checking awesome plays. At any rate, if anything, it's all speculations ^^ I'm curious though, are there more concrete ways, or tests of sorts, to figure out one's tendency to be affected from ADHD? (short of asking a doctor, of course)
Hahah you make ADHD LOOK SUPERULTRA COOl!!
I got this sh1t, i was diagnosed (is that even a word? anyway ..) a few years ago, and i dont feel so cool like you do ... Lets see, hyperfocusing , looks like a mothafacker super power right? WRONG, it is like a superpower, that just work when you dont really need it ...
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It is a cool perk to have. My job and hobbies both benefit from it (but I would not work a job I didn't find interesting so ...).
Up until uni I had no issues because the teachers were good and lessons were engaging (most of them anyway). At uni when it was simply one dude talking for 2-3h without anything too interesting it turned to shit, especially when 90% of exams were reproduce lesson x - I aced all the ones that were open book, failed most of the ones that required nights of memorizing hundreds of course pages.
Music and random city/background noise focus me - brain too busy processing stimuli? - I can't fall asleep without some noise in the background.
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On November 16 2012 15:41 Ydriel wrote:
A few things I could relate to:
-hyperfocusing (I really have to like a subject or feel the pressure to start working on something, but I can power through huge amount of hours working at something and getting it done in time, I just associated it to "being able to work under pressure" and "being able to manage my time")
This is the exact opposite of being able to manage your time  At least it doesn't feel that way for me.
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On November 16 2012 17:53 Arnstein wrote:
I think that a few percentage of human beings have ADD/ADHD, but I think it's quite overdiagnosed.
I mean, it's completely normal to want immediate reward for things. As a person that loves classical music, I still find myself listening to way more pop-music, because in pop-music, you get your "music-hit" immediately: there's a beat and melody from the first second. In classical music, however, the music builds up etc. If I listen to a 40 minute long classical masterpiece, I will feel much better than listening to a 3 minute long pop song, but since the pop song gives immediate reward, it is so attempting to listen to that one instead. Same goes for everything: I find myself watching more and more 2minute Youtube clips with funny stuff, rather than watching a 20+ minute comedy. Most of the time, a 20+ minute comedy is more thought out and funnier, but since I get my "comedy-hit" from just a 2 minute clip on Youtube, I'd rather just do that. This also applies to studying. If you spend your whole day studying one type of solving integrals or whatever, you will feel like you really learnt a LOT, and you will feel very good, but it's very easy to be tempted into just getting a hint on how to solve it, and then be done with the exercise.
Also, with us growing up playing games and watching TV, no wonder we have a hard time concentrating reading a slow-ass book. We are used to looking at something for maximum of 2 seconds before we see something new, while at the same time being stimulated with sound, and in gaming even with us using our body to push buttons. When you've done that for many hours every day since you were 5, it's rather hard to sit still and concentrate on a book(that you often don't find interesting, if it's a school book).
Trust me the problem isn't concentrating reading a book. I can go through a book in one day, never eating, never stopping, never sleeping, just fine.
As for the music, it doesn't have to be music. Best use is a movie you've already seen (heard actually) a few dozen times. Music that doesn't have distinguishable lyrics or mood shifts during the music - new movies make me focus the movie, classical makes me focus on the music, it's not the white noise I need.
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EPT
