|
Warning: this is a qq post after losing probably 26 of the 30 last PvZ I have played. So read knowing its all QQ
I play Starcraft II for fun. I watch Starcraft II because its entertaining. That all being said, I have lost hope in ladder because of 1/3 of the match ups (PvZ).
PvP, I no longer have any issue with it. I'll admit it, I don't like how most of the games play how, and the narrowness of games, but I still have fun with it.
PvT, I love it. I play a non standard style that seems to dominate most games. If I face a better player, chances are he should be able to beat me, but every game can go anyway, and I look forward to everytime I face a terran because its so much fun.
PvZ though... isn't fun. This isn't a talk about balance. Its just not fun. Usually zergs at my level build roaches into infestor broodlord. Which really isn't that hard to do. It doesn't take massive micro, multitasking, or macroskills at my level (DIAMOND). That being said, since immortal all-inning isnt that fun for me, I like trying different strategies. They don't work though... Some builds my friends tell me to try, because pros are winning with them, I dont have the skill todo.
That all being said, what do you guys think I should do, just go with the crowd and immortal all in, or quit ladder?
I am leaning towards the first of the two, just cuz my win rates vs T and P are probably around 80% at my level, but my win rate vs Z is probably at like 15%, and I would love to finally make it to masters.
 
|
ZvP is not fun, even in the GSL... 
I'm Zerg, and I hate this matchup with such passion. It's always the same: deflect the Immortal/Sentry, then turtle on four bases until you have 56895 infestors and broods...
I really hope Blizzard will be able to change things, it's really boring to play.
|
On November 13 2012 20:30 Ahelvin wrote:ZvP is not fun, even in the GSL... I'm Zerg, and I hate this matchup with such passion. It's always the same: deflect the Immortal/Sentry, then turtle on four bases until you have 56895 infestors and broods... I really hope Blizzard will be able to change things, it's really boring to play.
Glad a zergy agrees
|
I've been winning like 9/10 of my pvzs just doing a 3 base mass blinkstalker/immortal/sentry timing before broods come out lol, If i get tired of that I do a 7 gate with a warp prism in their main. I dont often bother going into the lategame because I dont think its worth the effort, all the things you have to do just to get like a 40% chance of winning id rather it just be over so i can improve my PvP PvT instead(which is really bad because of the amount of zergs I play on NA haha).
|
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.
|
On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.
Sounds like you should play another game
|
On November 13 2012 20:10 DJWilma wrote:
...That all being said,...
That being said ...
That all being said...
I think you said it all :-)
|
On November 13 2012 21:41 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place. Sounds like you should play another game
a zerg that doesnt agree with this post when the scenerio above happens 100% of the time? oh wow.
anyway that other game might be BW. no hardcore antimicro spell just pure bliss
|
I'm this close |--| to giving up playing Random and going to Terran full time because of how NOT fun the PvZ match up is.
It used to be one of my favorites, it's now my second least favorite only losing out to PvP.
Thankfully HoTS has been doing a TON to try and add variety to the match up, at least Blizzard is recognizing the match up needs some much needed help.
|
On November 13 2012 22:10 brofestor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 21:41 vOdToasT wrote:On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place. Sounds like you should play another game a zerg that doesnt agree with this post when the scenerio above happens 100% of the time? oh wow. anyway that other game might be BW. no hardcore antimicro spell just pure bliss
I never said I don't agree. I just think it is silly that people whine so much about SC2, but continue to play it. I just quit and moved on, which is the logical thing to do in the case of a bad game (To Brood War).
|
Play random
No really, you might not be in Diamond but at least you might have more fun
|
Play sky protoss (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333403). Basicly it's mothership rush on 2 bases with fast 3rd+cannon spam after MS is out. Then you proceed with VR (harras with them and recall with MS) and then add carriers and templars+archons.
It's funny how most zergs in diamond/low masters have no idea how to play against it. You have chance to play with fun, unique composition. Maybe it's a bit too turtly, but you can't have everything. At least if they go broodlord infestor you autowin, and infestor corruptor is managable with addition of templars and archons.
And it's also fun in a way that zerg to win must deny your expensions after third and use multi-prong attacks. So it's up to you how you approach securing forth and dealing with runbuys/drops/nuduses.
|
PvZ always used to be my favourite and best MU when I played. I used to do my own build +1 4 Gate Stargate which was a lot of fun because it was tricky, but when done right it allowed me to control the game and fight toe to toe with the Zerg player. You probably should be around mid Diamond before trying it, though.
If you're worried about the effectiveness of the build, I got to low Masters almost entirely off of the strength of it. Played every PvZ with it. 67% PvZ, 51% PvP, 46% PvT.
|
Agree. And the thing is, when I play Z, I look at the matchup in exactly the same way. I know that if I have decent map control and scouting (which is trivial) I will roll over the P. I stopped playing Z because I felt like I was winning the game 10 minutes before it was over and the other player had no way to come back.
|
On November 13 2012 20:10 DJWilma wrote:
Usually zergs at my level build roaches into infestor broodlord. Which really isn't that hard to do. It doesn't take massive micro, multitasking, or macroskills at my level (DIAMOND).
Yes, everyone agrees that the late game is in a bad place. But have a little more perspective. Ask yourself if what you're doing is really any more difficult. You sit in your base, make units, get upgrades and then attack with your ball. That's what everyone else is doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
