• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:13
CEST 00:13
KST 07:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League61Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. Bot on ladder Battle.net abbreviations list Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Do we even care about balance?
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9388 users

PvZ not fun on ladder.

Blogs > DJWilma
Post a Reply
DJWilma
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada740 Posts
November 13 2012 11:10 GMT
#1
Warning: this is a qq post after losing probably 26 of the 30 last PvZ I have played. So read knowing its all QQ

I play Starcraft II for fun. I watch Starcraft II because its entertaining. That all being said, I have lost hope in ladder because of 1/3 of the match ups (PvZ).

PvP, I no longer have any issue with it. I'll admit it, I don't like how most of the games play how, and the narrowness of games, but I still have fun with it.

PvT, I love it. I play a non standard style that seems to dominate most games. If I face a better player, chances are he should be able to beat me, but every game can go anyway, and I look forward to everytime I face a terran because its so much fun.

PvZ though... isn't fun. This isn't a talk about balance. Its just not fun. Usually zergs at my level build roaches into infestor broodlord. Which really isn't that hard to do. It doesn't take massive micro, multitasking, or macroskills at my level (DIAMOND). That being said, since immortal all-inning isnt that fun for me, I like trying different strategies. They don't work though... Some builds my friends tell me to try, because pros are winning with them, I dont have the skill todo.

That all being said, what do you guys think I should do, just go with the crowd and immortal all in, or quit ladder?

I am leaning towards the first of the two, just cuz my win rates vs T and P are probably around 80% at my level, but my win rate vs Z is probably at like 15%, and I would love to finally make it to masters.

*
I write stuff on LiquidDota also I own omwproductions.com
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
November 13 2012 11:30 GMT
#2
ZvP is not fun, even in the GSL...

I'm Zerg, and I hate this matchup with such passion. It's always the same: deflect the Immortal/Sentry, then turtle on four bases until you have 56895 infestors and broods...

I really hope Blizzard will be able to change things, it's really boring to play.
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
DJWilma
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada740 Posts
November 13 2012 11:38 GMT
#3
On November 13 2012 20:30 Ahelvin wrote:
ZvP is not fun, even in the GSL...

I'm Zerg, and I hate this matchup with such passion. It's always the same: deflect the Immortal/Sentry, then turtle on four bases until you have 56895 infestors and broods...

I really hope Blizzard will be able to change things, it's really boring to play.


Glad a zergy agrees
I write stuff on LiquidDota also I own omwproductions.com
m0nt
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia80 Posts
November 13 2012 12:02 GMT
#4
I've been winning like 9/10 of my pvzs just doing a 3 base mass blinkstalker/immortal/sentry timing before broods come out lol, If i get tired of that I do a 7 gate with a warp prism in their main. I dont often bother going into the lategame because I dont think its worth the effort, all the things you have to do just to get like a 40% chance of winning id rather it just be over so i can improve my PvP PvT instead(which is really bad because of the amount of zergs I play on NA haha).
semi-pro CS:GO player - http://www.youtube.com/user/meNtal2p
Mr. Nefarious
Profile Joined December 2010
United States515 Posts
November 13 2012 12:04 GMT
#5
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.
저그 화이팅
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
November 13 2012 12:41 GMT
#6
On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.


Sounds like you should play another game
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Smancer
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States379 Posts
November 13 2012 12:44 GMT
#7
On November 13 2012 20:10 DJWilma wrote:
...That all being said,...
That being said ...
That all being said...


I think you said it all :-)
A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby."
brofestor
Profile Joined October 2012
Singapore101 Posts
November 13 2012 13:10 GMT
#8
On November 13 2012 21:41 vOdToasT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.


Sounds like you should play another game


a zerg that doesnt agree with this post when the scenerio above happens 100% of the time? oh wow.

anyway that other game might be BW. no hardcore antimicro spell just pure bliss
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16126 Posts
November 13 2012 13:18 GMT
#9
I'm this close |--| to giving up playing Random and going to Terran full time because of how NOT fun the PvZ match up is.

It used to be one of my favorites, it's now my second least favorite only losing out to PvP.

Thankfully HoTS has been doing a TON to try and add variety to the match up, at least Blizzard is recognizing the match up needs some much needed help.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 13:34:53
November 13 2012 13:33 GMT
#10
On November 13 2012 22:10 brofestor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 21:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On November 13 2012 21:04 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
High Diamond Zerg here. I hate the PvZ matchup. It's god awful. I make roaches, you do a 2 base all-in and win 90% of the time or you turtle off 3 base and lose 90% of the time while I spine up 4-5 bases and go infestor/brood vs mothership which is a 1 click instant cast mass AOE that immediately wins or loses the game. The matchup is boring and awful because both of our races are balanced around stupid abilities. Forcefield makes gateway underpowered for obvious reasons and is overpowered in others while fungal growth gives Zerg all the utilities they actually need in the mid game but are missing through poor unit design. AOE dmg, anti-air, quasi space control, harassment potential, ability to delay pushes; so they just rolled it all into one spell in patch 1.3 when they realized Zerg was missing critical roles in the mid-game, especially against Protoss. I really hope they look long and hard for HOTS at how many balance compromises were made to accommodate FF and why they had to make fungal growth such an extreme spell in the first place.


Sounds like you should play another game


a zerg that doesnt agree with this post when the scenerio above happens 100% of the time? oh wow.

anyway that other game might be BW. no hardcore antimicro spell just pure bliss


I never said I don't agree. I just think it is silly that people whine so much about SC2, but continue to play it. I just quit and moved on, which is the logical thing to do in the case of a bad game (To Brood War).
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
November 13 2012 14:15 GMT
#11
Play random

No really, you might not be in Diamond but at least you might have more fun
Anomek
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland152 Posts
November 13 2012 15:15 GMT
#12
Play sky protoss (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333403). Basicly it's mothership rush on 2 bases with fast 3rd+cannon spam after MS is out. Then you proceed with VR (harras with them and recall with MS) and then add carriers and templars+archons.

It's funny how most zergs in diamond/low masters have no idea how to play against it. You have chance to play with fun, unique composition. Maybe it's a bit too turtly, but you can't have everything. At least if they go broodlord infestor you autowin, and infestor corruptor is managable with addition of templars and archons.

And it's also fun in a way that zerg to win must deny your expensions after third and use multi-prong attacks. So it's up to you how you approach securing forth and dealing with runbuys/drops/nuduses.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
November 13 2012 17:56 GMT
#13
PvZ always used to be my favourite and best MU when I played. I used to do my own build +1 4 Gate Stargate which was a lot of fun because it was tricky, but when done right it allowed me to control the game and fight toe to toe with the Zerg player. You probably should be around mid Diamond before trying it, though.

If you're worried about the effectiveness of the build, I got to low Masters almost entirely off of the strength of it. Played every PvZ with it. 67% PvZ, 51% PvP, 46% PvT.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
November 13 2012 19:18 GMT
#14
Agree. And the thing is, when I play Z, I look at the matchup in exactly the same way. I know that if I have decent map control and scouting (which is trivial) I will roll over the P. I stopped playing Z because I felt like I was winning the game 10 minutes before it was over and the other player had no way to come back.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
jdsowa
Profile Joined March 2011
405 Posts
November 13 2012 21:39 GMT
#15
On November 13 2012 20:10 DJWilma wrote:
Usually zergs at my level build roaches into infestor broodlord. Which really isn't that hard to do. It doesn't take massive micro, multitasking, or macroskills at my level (DIAMOND).


Yes, everyone agrees that the late game is in a bad place. But have a little more perspective. Ask yourself if what you're doing is really any more difficult. You sit in your base, make units, get upgrades and then attack with your ball. That's what everyone else is doing.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
02:00
RO8 - Day 1
FEL
18:00
ScienceCraft - Day 1
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 536
Nina 216
PiGStarcraft176
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 712
Liquid`Hasu 536
ZZZero.O 307
Hyuk 19
Mong 17
NaDa 12
Dota 2
syndereN644
canceldota90
League of Legends
JimRising 713
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox353
Other Games
Grubby2326
FrodaN2145
Liquid`RaSZi1832
summit1g1229
KnowMe189
Trikslyr60
QueenE41
CosmosSc2 13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1678
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 46
• Adnapsc2 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2722
• Nemesis2647
• Scarra1159
Other Games
• imaqtpie886
• Shiphtur489
• tFFMrPink 10
Upcoming Events
FEL
11h 47m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 47m
Replay Cast
1d
WardiTV Weekly
1d 13h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.