• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:41
CEST 14:41
KST 21:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task12[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak14DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview19herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)17Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6
Community News
[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)8Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14
StarCraft 2
General
Interview with oPZesty on Cheeseadelphia/Coaching herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018 Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task ASL 19 Tickets for foreigners [ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BW General Discussion Cwal.gg not working
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] RO20 Group C - Saturday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11927 users

Mass appeal and E-Sports.

Blogs > Haee
Post a Reply
Haee
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
522 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-23 21:48:05
October 23 2012 21:29 GMT
#1
Allow me to preface the topic by saying that I believe it’s important for this discussion to not devolve into the elitist “X game is superior then Y game” debate because by doing so it demeans both the time and commitment a player has invested in the game something that should be commended upon regardless of what game they’re playing. Also please keep in mind that the debate is not new at all and that all the opinions are of my own and that I might be wrong in the some of the examples I tried including. This is also a rough draft, so you know grammar might not be great and I don’t really know if the point I’m trying to make comes clear but we’ll see.

We’ve all seen the arguments before, “DotA takes more skill than LoL”, “Brood War takes more skill than Sc2”, “SF3: Third Strike takes more skill than SF4” and “Quake 3 takes more skill than Counter Strike”. This is a rather tiring debate that we’ve seen many times where every time I’ve seen it brought up seems to devolve into a “X game is superior than Y game” because…it simply takes more skill. Regardless of whether the comparison is apt or not, we can all make a distinction as of right now which game of the two has more mass appeal (both in peak value and consistency) than the other when making these comparisons.

I believe that for a game to qualify as an e-sport it needs to obviously be competitive in some way or another, that much I think we can all agree on. The part where I see myself rather conflicted on the topic is whether a game needs mass appeal or not to qualify itself as an E-Sport. One side seems to representative of a niche, the mentality that believes for a game truly qualify as an “E-Sport” it must be hardcore in a sense and the other seems to be accepting that mass appeal is an important asset to a game to solidify itself as a game worthy of being an e-sport. Need it be this way?

Initially I believed that the common trait that later games had over the other was its volatility. It’s just simply harder to show a level of consistency in say Street Fighter 4 than it is in Third Strike or Starcraft 2 over Brood War. I do believe in my list of comparisons there is a game that rewards mechanical superiority as an asset more so than the other. I can say for sure that the game that holds more mass appeal however is ultimately more accessible towards new-comers. Say in Street Fighter 3 is a game that is more mechanically intensive than 4 because it requires you to have perfect timing to parry correctly than the focus system that was present in SF4. I’m actually left with the impression that pro SC2 players want the game to revert back to its predecessor given how many comparisons they make and the general feeling of reminiscence (but it might just be me though) yet this begs to bring up another question, would Starcraft 2 be as big as it would have been otherwise if it was just Brood War with revamped graphics? (This is a question that I believe DotA 2 would inevitably answer for us in the future).

After talking to a friend who has close very ties with current e-sports, is when I became unsure. I retain my point where I believe that the games that qualify as an e-sports today or rather the games that are currently leading it is certainly indicative of the direction of where e-sports is heading. However what I don’t know is whether a game being more accessible has the repercussion of opening the game towards more volatility or instability.

Which side of the fence are you on? Do you believe E-Sports should retain its niche or do you want it to further grow into a direction it’s been heading towards, mass appeal? Or do you believe differently in that there are alternatives in approaching the topic? Please share your thoughts.

Lysteria
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
France2279 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-23 21:57:56
October 23 2012 21:56 GMT
#2
I think the direction e-sports is growing right now is good, just for one fact. Now, you have content for the hardcore gamers and for the more casual gamers. And with more "casuals" - even if I just don't like the term to begin with - going into the e-sports scene, you have more chance to persuade them to watch some more hardcore stuff.

That's a thing I don't really like actually with the hardcore scene, the fact casuals have to switch to their games, meanwhile they don't have to change a bit their attitude towards other games. Well, it was like that a year or two before, as a lot of people have now switch to other games. Just watching some TL mods and admins makes me feel I'm not alone having switch my interests since the "death" of BW.

It's a good criteria to choose to watch games for their "competitiveness", even if that word totally is empty, because you can be competitive in nearly any game in existence (and I thought about Mario Party while saying that). But it's clearly not the only criteria. About my opinion, I prefer mind games to mechanical games, even if BW is the example of how perfect an e-sports can be. But I prefer by far watching chess than a fully mechanical game.

The thing is, people putting types on games reminds me of how the Metal scene is for music, sometimes. There is no such thing as the best type, just a type you prefer than others, and you have the right to like more than one or two of it. :p
ParkwayDrive
Profile Joined July 2011
United States328 Posts
October 23 2012 22:31 GMT
#3
i personally just wanna play and watch the games i find fun. if sc2 fails then ill move on while i keep laddering away.

but in the overall picture what i want doesnt really matter. the people all involved with esports are motivated by money. lets face it, we all love video games but only a select view try to make a living off of it. nothing wrong with it, just stating facts. but because of this, those who are in the scene will fight for mass appeal every single time whether valid or not.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
#12
LiquipediaDiscussion
AllThingsProtoss
11:00
Team League - Playoffs R1
Gemini_1980
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
10:00
2025 GSL S2 - Qualifiers
CranKy Ducklings263
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 79
EnDerr 42
MindelVK 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42801
Horang2 3080
Shuttle 1727
Bisu 1387
Pusan 1111
Jaedong 1065
Hyuk 451
Mini 288
Last 259
hero 130
[ Show more ]
HiyA 76
TY 73
GoRush 51
sorry 38
Backho 36
soO 26
Sacsri 23
Barracks 20
Free 16
Yoon 14
IntoTheRainbow 11
Icarus 8
SilentControl 5
ivOry 2
Bale 2
Dota 2
Gorgc5669
Dendi1981
qojqva1031
XcaliburYe470
BabyKnight16
Counter-Strike
allub80
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor277
Other Games
B2W.Neo2655
Beastyqt471
DeMusliM248
Fuzer 229
Mew2King104
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH295
• HeavenSC 32
• Dystopia_ 3
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RaNgeD 15
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1424
• Stunt784
• Nemesis616
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
2h 19m
BSL Season 20
5h 19m
Dewalt vs TT1
UltrA vs HBO
WolFix vs TBD
Afreeca Starleague
16h 19m
BeSt vs Soulkey
AllThingsProtoss
22h 19m
Road to EWC
1d 1h
Wardi Open
1d 22h
SOOP
2 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
Online Event
4 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
4 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-20
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.