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On October 22 2012 01:23 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote:
I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) Without picking a side anyone could tell that stuff was not good in Slayers at a certain point. Even before they had to bench MMA and such there were things that looked bad for them.
I agree but what Im questioning is Cranks insistence on Boxer/Jessica doing nothing to solve the problems or those problems arising from a lack of management. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Crank a liar, I'd just like some specifics, evidence etc. This statement offers very little and doesnt really add much to anything much less clear the air. Saying that, I can understand if axiom is hesitant releasing any specifics until they are sure about what they can say (im sure theres alot of behind the scenes chit chat going on).
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote:
Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
Did you run out of baked beans? If not I know several hard working asians that could use some from you. Please mail them at:
In need of Soap
Hypocrite Drive
Thailand
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote:
Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
What an aweful comparision. What does one thing have to do with the other?
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This is just a classic "He said, she said" and given the track record of the she in this case (over the top drama queen that overreacts to everything) and the track record of the he in this case (a very good SC2 player supported by one of the most candid people on the internet) I'm going with the he.
I mean, you're not gonna find "evidence" to support either case unless the phones were tapped and there were cameras all over the SlayerS house and I'd think that in itself would be a bigger problem.
Believe who you want to believe, but don't fucking pretend that your opinion or anything you think constitutes evidence. I'm believing TB on this one.
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote:
Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
What are you talking about?
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On October 22 2012 02:40 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote:
Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about?
He is trying to say its ok to work at a broken company as long as there are enough molested kids around. From such statement, one could make a great judgment of his intellect.
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Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary.....
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I don't know who's telling the truth, but I find it hilarious when Jessica says "i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be."
What on earth did she expect to happen after unloading all this stuff? This drama will continue for months, we still don't have a statement from MMA. The eSF is still around and people like MC have been continuing the twitter wars. If she wanted to "rest" then she shouldn't have aired this stuff.
Also, if there's something big to reveal, which she keeps saying there is, I think she should just go for it. The way I currently see this situation is we will eventually reach the point where she does and right now we're just adding a few weeks of drama before she lets us know what actually happened.
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On October 22 2012 02:49 Swords wrote:
I don't know who's telling the truth, but I find it hilarious when Jessica says "i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be."
What on earth did she expect to happen after unloading all this stuff? This drama will continue for months, we still don't have a statement from MMA. The eSF is still around and people like MC have been continuing the twitter wars. If she wanted to "rest" then she shouldn't have aired this stuff.
Also, if there's something big to reveal, which she keeps saying there is, I think she should just go for it. The way I currently see this situation is we will eventually reach the point where she does and right now we're just adding a few weeks of drama before she lets us know what actually happened.
Hey if anyone thinks that, they would be very stupid. You always want to have an ace up your sleeves before exhausting all of your available option and Jessica is plainly following The Art War tactics. So yeah she is pretty smart in that regard.
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On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote:
this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule.
i really wanted to forget and rest
but you dont let me be.
i saw what cranks team had to say.
1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities.
2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences.
like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example.
3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds.
if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file.
4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully.
5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning..
i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night.
i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling .
i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this.
im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?!
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thx Biscuit this is very clear, well thought-out and completely enlightening.
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On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote:
Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary.....
He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording.
On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote:
Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind.
Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first.
If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though.
Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs.
On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote:
TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around.
Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene.
On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote:
I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded.
Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give.
You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference.
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On October 22 2012 02:43 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:40 Megabuster123 wrote:On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote:
Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about? He is trying to say its ok to work at a broken company as long as there are enough molested kids around. From such statement, one could make a great judgment of his intellect.
Woah woah woah, don't joke about molesting kids dude. That's just wrong even as sarcasm
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Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either.
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On October 22 2012 02:06 KivTM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:30 StarStruck wrote:On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote:
I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) On the topic of Manager J. I wouldn't flat-out call something the main reason. I would look for the starting point of where it went south and the embezzling of money Manager J is a pretty good starting point if you ask me. Let alone the hiring. Some people are too trustworthy and in many cases they shouldn't be hiring anyone. There's a reason why recruitment firms/head hunter business has been booming for the last thirty years. It's because HR doesn't get the job done. My Mom's always joked about people in HR and how they can never make good head hunters. For reference she's been in the business for well over forty years as a president from everything from Hays Personnel, Saber Consulting, Design Group, CNC, etc. Unfortunately we're talking about small businesses (I even have a hard time calling them that). If it's not KeSPA in many cases it's completely entrepreneurial with only a few exceptions like FXO. You really need to have a firm pulse on your team and good thing Genna isn't looking to hire anyone soon. You do need to be a control freak when it's your own business. Jessica has some qualities of what I would call a good manager (she's passionate and she's a control freak) but not all. Anyway, I'm going to call the guy in question simply J because he simply doesn't deserve to be called a manager, which is almost ironic. The guy should have never been apart of the team in the first place. The lines of communication and player mistrust really started to breakdown with him. This doesn't mean he was the main reason however as there were many moving pieces to the puzzle that made this blow up. It's only a starting point. But isnt that exactly what qualifies it as the main reason? There were many other reasons of course but they were not as consequential as this one. Either way its a technicality of wording. I think we're both saying the same thing. There has been alot of discussion about whether or not Jessica was correct to hire manager J. Personally I think that hiring a person you have only known for 3 months to handle negotiations with sponsors is a bit naive especially when that person had only previously been doing minor tasks like managing the facebook team page. Still, I don't know what kind of relationship they had. Maybe they developed a good rapport with one another and he did his jobs well so Jessica decided to give him a chance. It's hard to lay fault at Jessica's feet for hiring an untrustworthy person when she had reason to think otherwise (if everyone played it as safe as me, there'd be nothing like hitch hiking in this world). Off topic, can your mum find me a job lol. Damn near impossible for a engineering grad to find entry level position work these days =[
No it does not because like I said there are a lot of moving pieces in this situation and that's why I look at it as a starting point. I don't know the guy and based on all the mud being flung around I really don't care. I look forward not backward.
As for my dear Mother who is very close to retirement. She's currently with Design Group and deals with all of Mike Duff's other properties as well. You either know what DG already does or it's merely coincidence. With that said, you are a stranger. I know nothing about you other than the fact you are a graduate student. My Mom always has a ton on her plate and I get asked this type of question very frequently. DG looks at career people because those hiring have easy access to grad students. They can fill those roles on their own.
That's me paraphrasing her anyway. Hopefully you finished at the top of your class and go to all the trade fairs and shows around your campus. It's all about social networking.
Finding your first job straight out of university is always the hardest and I wish you luck.
On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote:
Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either.
That really isn't necessary, lol.
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On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote:
Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either.
Argh...I hope Crank isn't lying to TB..I like TB, nice guy giving back as much as he is getting. Would really suck if TB gets dragged down by trust
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On October 22 2012 03:11 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote:
Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either. Argh...I hope Crank isn't lying to TB..I like TB, nice guy giving back as much as he is getting. Would really suck if TB gets dragged down by trust
Nah tbh he wouldn't even be to blame. He's doing the right thing, trust your own player until proven wrong. It's stupid for anyone to blame TB for it, even IF Crank is lying, which i don't hope.
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Three things :
- Nice statement, Axiom
- Jessica is soooo bad at PR...
- Crank, keep on doing great games!
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Jessica comes across as a bully to me.
I believe SC players more than I do actresses(or whatever she is/was).
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EPT
