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Active: 29840 users

Wow, I'm so bad at proof-based mathematics...

Blogs > meguca
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 01:01:24
October 01 2012 00:48 GMT
#1
It literally took me an hour of extreme frustration to write this, and I don't even know if it's correct (probably not):

http://i.imgur.com/tJXpL.png

I mean admittedly, yes, it is my first foray into proof-based mathematics and into number theory, but, WTF, this took me longer than the other supposedly harder exercises--and the result is so trivial, too. (Why do I feel like this was harder than reproving the Rayleigh theorem?)

Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can go about learning proof methods and such and just improving my ability to write proofs in general? Are there books out there that basically teach you problem-solving techniques?

(Comments on the actual proof would be nice, too. I really, really hope it isn't flawed.)

edit fuck my life i only proved the rayleigh theorem in 1 direction FML and i already printed it out

1a
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada36 Posts
October 01 2012 01:05 GMT
#2
that looks crazy hard... what level of mathematics is this?
hi
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
October 01 2012 01:12 GMT
#3
basic number theory
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
October 01 2012 01:12 GMT
#4
Is just takes a time, after your first semester or two it becomes second nature. Don't be easy on yourself when you write them
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
October 01 2012 01:17 GMT
#5
Oh god I am dreading the time at which I have to start using LaTeX lol.

But yeah, all told, you get used to it after a while.
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 01:21:37
October 01 2012 01:20 GMT
#6
Don't worry, proofs aren't supposed to be easy. You get good at them by doing them, like everything else in mathematics. Quick note: some of the notation seems nonstandard. I assume $[x]$ is the floor function -- why not use $\lfloor x \rfloor$? What's $\{x\}$, if not the set containing x -- the non-integer part of x? Maybe that is accepted notation, but none of my number theory courses ever had a use for such things.


On October 01 2012 10:17 Aerisky wrote:
Oh god I am dreading the time at which I have to start using LaTeX lol.


Nooooo tex is awesome. Seriously, once you get used to it, you're never going to want to hand-write mathematics again.
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
October 01 2012 01:23 GMT
#7
Yeah, $[x]$ is floor and $\{x\}$ is the fractional part. I'm used to seeing $\lfloor x \rfloor$ but I just decided to stick with the notation that my textbook uses (Elementary Number Theory and Its Applications by Rosen).
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
October 01 2012 01:28 GMT
#8
Not going to lie, 3rd and 4th year mathematics based courses were the only subjects I had to scrape by with. I probably could have managed if I'd focused my efforts and studies like a boss, but with a full course load I basically resigned myself to just get a passing grade.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
October 01 2012 01:46 GMT
#9
in general, 1+2+...+x = x(x+1)/2
pretty easy to prove it given that, but idk if your allowed to use it
hoot00
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States77 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 02:05:14
October 01 2012 01:55 GMT
#10
Hmm I'm learning proofs too, but my teacher taught us induction. So like prove N=1 true then assume random number k is true then prove the term after (which is k+1) true.

I feel like I'm missing something
LEGENDS NEVER GG
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
October 01 2012 02:00 GMT
#11
On October 01 2012 10:46 Assault_1 wrote:
in general, 1+2+...+x = x(x+1)/2
pretty easy to prove it given that, but idk if your allowed to use it


How would I use that?
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
October 01 2012 02:04 GMT
#12
On October 01 2012 11:00 meguca wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2012 10:46 Assault_1 wrote:
in general, 1+2+...+x = x(x+1)/2
pretty easy to prove it given that, but idk if your allowed to use it


How would I use that?


Try writing x as [x]+{x}...

To hoot0, you don't need induction for this, and I doubt it would be any easier than showing it directly.
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
October 01 2012 02:08 GMT
#13
On October 01 2012 11:04 Iranon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2012 11:00 meguca wrote:
On October 01 2012 10:46 Assault_1 wrote:
in general, 1+2+...+x = x(x+1)/2
pretty easy to prove it given that, but idk if your allowed to use it


How would I use that?


Try writing x as [x]+{x}...

To hoot0, you don't need induction for this, and I doubt it would be any easier than showing it directly.


I see.
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
October 01 2012 03:32 GMT
#14
Yeah, I avoided Number Theory and Elementary Proofs (double-major dodge). Those kinds of things never clicked for me, and were not as fun as limits and infinite series proofs. I didn't have the brain for a lot of proofs. I envy a lot of math majors haha
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Abductedonut
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States324 Posts
October 01 2012 03:33 GMT
#15
Hi meguca, you should look into the first two chapters of a book called "discrete mathematics and its applications" by rosen.

The first chapter is all about logic and proofs, starting from teaching you basics concepts and boolean logic like AND/OR/XOR into teaching you logical fallacies and how to construct a logical argument. Then, you get into traditional proofs like prove root 2 is irrational. That's where you learn proof by contradiction, proof by induction, etc etc.

Chapter 2 is sets and proofs on sets. The book is not that great to be honest, but it might help you get your foot in the door.

Also, it's good because with some googling you MIGHT be able to find it online. *hint hint*
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
October 01 2012 03:51 GMT
#16
99% of high school students won't understand this either. So...

at least you have that working in your favor right?
☺
Nehsb
Profile Joined May 2009
United States380 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-01 03:59:36
October 01 2012 03:58 GMT
#17
Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can go about learning proof methods and such and just improving my ability to write proofs in general? Are there books out there that basically teach you problem-solving techniques?


For the first question, what exactly do you find hard about writing/finding proofs? (In particular, do you find writing proofs or finding proofs hard?) Hard to give a specific answer without knowing what you find hard.

As for problem-solving techniques, the answer is yes:

Polya's "How to Solve It" is a classic text on problem-solving.
Other than that, there are books on math competitions (Competitions using only "elementary math" for high school students, "elementary math" is usually high school algebra, high school geometry, number theory, and combinatorics. Much more of a test of problem-solving ability than deep understanding or knowledge of theory, though those can be useful.) See http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Store/index.php.

Good luck! (Also, number theory was a nice gate for me into richer and more beautiful areas of math than I had seen, and I hope it will be for you as well. My interests have shifted from number theory since then, but it was a great introduction. glhf :D)
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
October 01 2012 04:01 GMT
#18
Don't really have the time for a more thorough response at the moment, but:

Nehsb: My primary issue is in basically concretely writing down logical steps; that is, I often can very easily intuitively understand that something is true, but I find it practically painful to laboriously prove something that seems to be trivial (and it's frustrating, too). I think more familiarity with commonly used proof techniques and 'strategies', so to speak, would help me a lot; I'll definitely take a look at the books you mentioned.
EffervescentAureola
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States410 Posts
October 01 2012 04:48 GMT
#19
Just pretend to be Ramanujan. That should give you some mental confidence. Next time you are solving a difficult number theory problem, remember the voice inside your head is none other than Ramanujan.
VaySept
Profile Joined April 2011
France39 Posts
October 01 2012 05:11 GMT
#20
proof-based math = math
What is math without proof? Calculus?

And this is not "number theory". This is just a triviality on integers and real numbers, for first year students in the university.

PS : Your proof looks correct.
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