EPTIt's not over -- KeSPA plays for keeps - Page 4
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Pertan
Sweden33 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
On September 04 2012 23:45 Myrddraal wrote: I prefer the scene the way it is rather than focusing it and I think it gains more popularity this way too. People like seeing rivalries/stories like eSF vs KeSPA, Foreigner Hope against many Koreans, Korean Dominance over many Foreigners, their favourite players in their own country or their favourite players tearing it up in other countries. While I understand that having a focused scene would probably create the absolute top quality of games, I'd rather have more opportunities to watch my favourite players while trying to keep as many people interested in SC2 as possible. To you and other users that responded to my post, allow me to illustrate my point in the following way: After just a few months, the more committed (ie willing to change games) players from KeSPA leagues have already begun to knock out big names that have been around the SC2 scene for ages. The KeSPA Proleague has not even fully switched over to SC2 yet, but obviously the teams are just practicing SC2 (some quote 90%, but realistically they're probably only playing SC2, except for 1 or 2 games before the BW match to do a cheese). Now, either the KeSPA players will continue to rise in skill (because of the advantages of having a focused scene, good practice habits, little unnecessary travelling), or they won't. If they do, that means you are directly sacrificing the quality of games just because you want this joke of an international scene and you don't really care about the quality of the game itself. Fair enough, I know there's a lot of people who are more in love with the buzz around a sport than the sport itself. However, if they don't prove their superiority from a focused scene etc etc, then they won't have the power and leverage at all to threaten GOM with anything. So basically what I'm saying that if KeSPA CAN do this, then it SHOULD for the sake of the quality of the games (which should have more enduring and passionate popularity than people just watching because hey its vidya games on tv lol). BW was a collosal success because of this and even up to the last OSL it drew in gigantic crowds of people who didn't want it to die. It didn't succeed internationally because there were no scenes like it internationally. SC2 is hardly a success internationally either. Not in the same way we would think of football or hockey as having international success (many leagues in many different countries, varying popularity or not, where players don't have to travel to another country every other week just to compete). It's one thing to have a lot of people all over the world interested in a sport, it's another to have clusters of those people creating leagues in their own countries because they have enough interested players to have a legitimate scene). We could also argue that the reason KeSPA players caught up so quickly is just because the skill cap is low in SC2, but if we are throwing that argument away for the sake of interesting discussion, then maybe there is hope the game will be less tedious and boring in a year. There is nothing inherently interesting to me about watching people play video games, even if they are white people. I only want to see the best, and I want to see the best devoting their lives to it and giving themselves the best possible chance of competing. Showing up Jet Lagged and using generic strats because of an overworked schedule is not condusive to this. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
On one side, a team can try to acquire more sponsors - but that can be a difficult task. It is quite obvious that the teams would turn to another major party that makes money out of the teams' existences: the boardcasters/league runners for additional funding. While GOM appear to be quite helpful to the existing sc2 teams, I somewhat doubt they want to all of a sudden financial sponsor the sudden influx of kespa teams. If there is a way for the teams to blackmail Blizzard, I bet they would (as the sc2 progaming scene is one giant advertisement system for the game). Unfortunately for them, Blizzard holds the final trump card and just outright ban the broadcast of their intellectual property. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
On September 05 2012 03:51 Hikari wrote: I think the problem is that the Korean teams needed money to be financially viable. Given the financial state of the GSL sc2 teams (and how they are constantly leaking players to richer foreign teams), I think it is safe to assure that running a SC2 pro team is not what you would invest in if you wanted to make a profit. On one side, a team can try to acquire more sponsors - but that can be a difficult task. It is quite obvious that the teams would turn to another major party that makes money out of the teams' existences: the boardcasters/league runners for additional funding. While GOM appear to be quite helpful to the existing sc2 teams, I somewhat doubt they want to all of a sudden financial sponsor the sudden influx of kespa teams. If there is a way for the teams to blackmail Blizzard, I bet they would (as the sc2 progaming scene is one giant advertisement system for the game). Unfortunately for them, Blizzard holds the final trump card and just outright ban the broadcast of their intellectual property. Doubt they hold the final trump card. They did go through all that trouble to lure TBLS to Blizzcon this year. Pretty sure they want the KeSPA players. | ||
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Kubricks
284 Posts
Like some sort of half-assed conspiracy? | ||
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Supert0fu
United States499 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On September 05 2012 00:51 Aunvilgod wrote: I think you underestimate Blizzards strength. If Blizzard shuts down the OSL/PL all those SC players are out of work. I do not think the KeSPA players are forced to stay with their respective teams if KeSPA decides to abandon SC2. They most likely would retire, build new teams or get picked up by GOM teams. And I can´t imagine old BW watcher would start watching the low-skill MOBA LoL all of the sudden. They would just switch to GOM as well, after all their production is not worse. I still think Blizzard sits at the longer end of the stick. The thing is, the "old BW watcher" you are referring to are already watching LoL. Why? Because they are playing it themselves. Why? Because it's a fun game to play with your friends. It's even more fun to be competitive with your friends. Thats why everyone and their mother have at least tried LoL in Korea by now. Like every Starcraft progamer are playing the game. Pro's have even quit Starcraft to play LoL full time instead. And some players have stated that when they retire they will play LoL. I'm pretty sure that Korea is kinda tired of Starcraft already, hense the big bang of LoL all of the sudden. And I don't blame them at all on any of this. If they want to play Starcraft they will just play BW (like they are already) because it's the better game and it's alot more FUN to play. SC2 isn't fun to play, it's frustrating to play and tbh it isn't fun to watch (compared to other games out there), something I'm obviously not alone to think since sc2 is dead in Korea and even in the west people are starting to fade away more from sc2 to LoL, Dota 2 and various FPS/MMO's. | ||
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Megiddosc
United States966 Posts
And I don't think I'm alone. All the time I heard from BW fans about how awesome the production for OSL/Proleague is, but I don't see it. It's on par, if not below with the presentation of production of the GSL. Maybe the production values on the actual TV feed going out to Korea is amazing, but not what I've seen on the twitch stream. If It does come down to KeSPA vs ESF or OSL/PL vs. GSL/GSTL then I think by a wide margin that the international community will back ESF/GSL. And considering that SC2 is absolutely nowhere near BW-levels of fandom in Korea, both need the international audience. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
o_O ty for enlightening me | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On September 05 2012 06:43 Megiddosc wrote: What I have seen of OSL so far has not impressed. How is it that people were able to take a competition seriously when it comes down to round robin Best of 1s? In a team league (all-kill format, not proleague format) that is understandable. But in what is purported to be a serious competition/tournament? It's ridiculous. There's a reason GSL went away from that round robin best of 1 format they had with code S awhile ago. And I don't think I'm alone. All the time I heard from BW fans about how awesome the production for OSL/Proleague is, but I don't see it. It's on par, if not below with the presentation of production of the GSL. Maybe the production values on the actual TV feed going out to Korea is amazing, but not what I've seen on the twitch stream. If It does come down to KeSPA vs ESF or OSL/PL vs. GSL/GSTL then I think by a wide margin that the international community will back ESF/GSL. And considering that SC2 is absolutely nowhere near BW-levels of fandom in Korea, both need the international audience. most of those complaints are from those watching the english stream. just watch the korean stream or chinese vods which are simply dubbed over the korean vods. bo1 round robin has worked for OSL for 12 years. plus it's broadcast on TV, there isn't a feasible way of playing bo3s for the ro16 without greatly increasing how long the OSL runs for plus broadcast time. GOM doesn't have any of those problems because it's just an internet stream. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
Fast forward to 2012. An identical situation is taking place. GOM is not paying IEG (although I'm not sure if IEG has rights to anything but Proleague anymore) and is certainly not paying KeSPA. So KeSPA, naturally, withdrew their players from GSL. Once again, their assets were being used in a way that did not benefit them beyond sponsorship exposure. But this time, they had to back down. They no longer held all the cards. GSL would have survived without KeSPA players, and OGN would have been dealt a crippling blow without half of its Ro16. Pretty sure IEG never had rights on OSL or MSL (you imply otherwise). The reason why GOM-Blizzard stepped in in 2007 was cause Blizzard was pissed that KeSPA sold broadcasting rights to IEG. Basically KeSPA isn't dumb enough to force GOM to pay IEG, since it was a right related to proleague rather than anything else.... under what justification can they pull that off? Think about it. It was something related to Proleague and Proleague only... why the fuck are you implying KeSPA is power playing GOM over Proleague broadcasting rights? My guess is that KeSPA power played GOM cause this is the last time they will have any leverage, ever, cause chances are a a team or two are going to disband after this season of PL and PL is going to be weaker and weaker. | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
Something that I don't really understand though is why are the KeSPA players an asset of KeSPA? What is there to prevent them leaving a KeSPA team and joining an established SC2 team when their contract comes up? Or possibly before depending on the contract. I'm sure a lot of this must be a cultural thing, because I can't imagine a similar situation in NA/EU where players would be willing to be bossed about by KeSPA (if indeed they are and I understand the situation correctly). | ||
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On September 05 2012 08:36 Deadeight wrote: Well, my personal hope is the the new SC2 players will be strong enough to give the eSF enough leverage. Something that I don't really understand though is why are the KeSPA players an asset of KeSPA? What is there to prevent them leaving a KeSPA team and joining an established SC2 team when their contract comes up? Or possibly before depending on the contract. I'm sure a lot of this must be a cultural thing, because I can't imagine a similar situation in NA/EU where players would be willing to be bossed about by KeSPA (if indeed they are and I understand the situation correctly). KESPA pays their more high profile players actual legitimate contracts that have a monetary value attached to it. this is why KESPA has much more control over its players and why KESPA players are not likely to go to non-KESPA teams unless they're Team B quality non-KESPA Korean teams do not really have anything similar to what KESPA teams can offer in terms of legitimate player contracts | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
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