EPTAnd they have the more recognised players. Say what you want to say about Iron and ZergBong, but even SC2 viewers know the TBLS, Fantasy and such.
It's not over -- KeSPA plays for keeps - Page 2
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
And they have the more recognised players. Say what you want to say about Iron and ZergBong, but even SC2 viewers know the TBLS, Fantasy and such. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51456 Posts
On September 04 2012 18:17 Nikon wrote: The question is: why do we need GomTV at all? KeSPA has opened up to foreigner exposure now, and they're less likely to make shady bussiness decisions when concerning the customer. Plus they have OGN at their back, thus getting better production values and such. And they have the more recognised players. Say what you want to say about Iron and ZergBong, but even SC2 viewers know the TBLS, Fantasy and such. GomTV is as needed as MBC was. a second broadcasting station is a good thing | ||
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1170 Posts
I agree with Nikon - Blizzard holding the cards wouldn't do either - they'd just as quickly scrap the SC2 scene for WC4 when it's out. There's a reason why WoW arena isn't in MLG anymore (afaik)? The threat of KeSPA is good, keeps Blizzard on their toes. I'd count on Blizzard to do something shady if left in full control. | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On September 04 2012 19:06 BLinD-RawR wrote: GomTV is as needed as MBC was. a second broadcasting station is a good thing Thing is, GomTV differs from MBC in the way it operates. I'm not saying that a second broadcasing station is a bad thing, but do we really need GomTV? | ||
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netherh
United Kingdom333 Posts
On September 04 2012 19:15 Nikon wrote: Thing is, GomTV differs from MBC in the way it operates. I'm not saying that a second broadcasing station is a bad thing, but do we really need GomTV? Aren't you looking at this the wrong way? GomTV have been broadcasting SC2 for a while now. Kespa is the new kid in this area, and the "second broadcasting station". As an SC2 viewer I recognise far more SC2 names than BW names. Why do we need Kespa? | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 04 2012 19:38 netherh wrote: Aren't you looking at this the wrong way? GomTV have been broadcasting SC2 for a while now. Kespa is the new kid in this area, and the "second broadcasting station". As an SC2 viewer I recognise far more SC2 names than BW names. Why do we need Kespa? I think the point is less needing KeSPA but more "wanting" KeSPA. As crazy as that sounds... | ||
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mTwRINE
Germany318 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
And though I prefer watching the best players, my loyality will be with GOM, even though they tried to pull that 50$ per season at the beginning. | ||
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deathly rat
United Kingdom911 Posts
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
must the gomtv players train even harder and outpace the kespa players hoping Code S still results in majority gomtv? or should we be showing the kespa team players that the grass is greener on our side come join our teams? | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
In my opinon when GOM first started holding its BW leagues it made some pretty big mistakes. Originally it was kind of a one off invitational which was really cool. But then it put a strain on the system and reduced the quality of the whole leagues games. Why did OGN and MBC teams refuse to participate? They put value on the quality of their broadcasted games is another reason outside this IEG business which you've decided is the sole deciding factor. GOM should have set up a really nice league for amateurs, or made semi-professionals out of students. It was definitely wrong for them to take an established player base and weaken the two leagues that had built it up in exchange for almost nothing without telling anyone. Basically they ended up doing that with SC2 in a very legitimate way and have earned their peace. Now you're right, KeSPA is losing its players again, but again the reason to consolidate feels like an issue with quality of games and players. Too many leagues is one of the reasons SC2 is still boring to watch. Players flying all over the world, not practicing enough, getting jet lagged all the time, especially champions. KeSPA can't claim to be the prime source right now, that title basically belongs to GOM, but the more they tighten their reigns and their players become better, the more capable they will be of cutting off events and growing their scene. Maybe that sounds ironic, but there's a difference between sending players to BlizzCON once a year, and sending players every other week half way across the world. I believe in a focused scene. I still don't quite understand the broadcasting rights fiascos with MBC and OGN, but I do think that the reasons for cutting off GOM are more than that. Not to mention GOM has always had lower quality production. On September 04 2012 22:17 Denzil wrote: so how do you propose to stop that happening? must the gomtv players train even harder and outpace the kespa players hoping Code S still results in majority gomtv? or should we be showing the kespa team players that the grass is greener on our side come join our teams? Unless you are a huge fan of GOM, there's no much reason to want to stop it from happening. SC2 stands to gain a lot from a focused scene. This is KeSPA saying we want to do things right instead of letting GOM fuck up everything. Still KeSPA has the recognize at least for now that they need GOM players to legitimize the talents of their own. Once it becomes clear KeSPA pros are competeting at or above the level of Code S, they'll do what they can to fix the scene if Blizzard doesn't get in the way. | ||
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Kygus
Canada19 Posts
I mean, is there really hope for the scene with this sort of internal fighting, external pressures from other games, and the general lack of popularity in Korea in the first place? | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On September 04 2012 22:44 Kygus wrote: This paints a very troubling picture for the future of competitive SC2, especially with LoL and DotA2. I mean, is there really hope for the scene with this sort of internal fighting, external pressures from other games, and the general lack of popularity in Korea in the first place? Personally, I would sack the Korean scene to prevent the fighting from negatively affecting the scene everywhere else. | ||
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Sirrush
Netherlands165 Posts
Unless, of course, there are clauses for these thing in the contract, which seems likely. | ||
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ParkwayDrive
United States328 Posts
osl is always gonna need GOM players for sc2. GOM wont NEED kespa players for at least 6-12 months. Also, kespa needs their whole teams to be competitive in order for GOM to need them long term. if only one or 2 kespa players truly breakout in this intial 6 month period they may just get picked up by GOM teams eventually if their own kespa team is struggling. and the kespa just dissolves or moves on to something else. like in the OP, the only tangible asset that kespa has/had are its players. if enough of them dont step up and break into code s/a then they will have less assets and less power. | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
The thing for KeSPA is to learn to let go, just a little bit, of their stranglehold on players. (This is why I think eSF was formed - to ensure that player interests are represented.) Not entirely, and certainly eSF could learn some things about team and player management - at least when it comes to marketing players. GOM (and for that matter, others) could learn quite a bit about production value and the support structure around the production. KeSPA casters (and hopefully, their English casters if they choose to embrace the foreign markets) seem to have a lot better support behind them. I don't know if both sides will work together, but I have to say that KeSPA's historical actions don't paint a good picture. And to be honest, the foreign scene at this point will go one with or without GOM or KeSPA - even if SC2 in Korea were to fail, we would still have Korean teams and players on the world stage because (as MC and others can attest) they can still make a decent amount of money so long as foreigners don't match their level of play. | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On September 04 2012 22:24 Chef wrote: Unless you are a huge fan of GOM, there's no much reason to want to stop it from happening. SC2 stands to gain a lot from a focused scene. This is KeSPA saying we want to do things right instead of letting GOM fuck up everything. Still KeSPA has the recognize at least for now that they need GOM players to legitimize the talents of their own. Once it becomes clear KeSPA pros are competeting at or above the level of Code S, they'll do what they can to fix the scene if Blizzard doesn't get in the way. gom has gone above and beyond for the foreign community, holding tournaments in america, partnerships actively encouraging their players to go out the rest of the world and trying to be as convient as possible with their scheduling. I don't think people quite understand what they're set to lose if kespa replaces gom that interaction with the foreign community? non existant barring moletrap and doa being allowed to poke a comment or 2 in wanting to pause but being 1 p too short? enjoy your DQ wanting to go to foreign tournaments? ungreatful player, do you even enjoy getting paid? kespa players would show up to blizzcon and thats it, simply to placate blizzard maybe wcg. foreigners in korea would go back to being a joke barring the IdrAs who devote themselves to the cause and even then there's no guarenteed success. perhaps i'm wrong, maybe kespa is a benevolent overlord who's killing parts of the scene for the greater good, but compared to having to watch it at 3 in the morning in a foreign language as a "forgotten" viewer (i say that in the sense there's no acknowledgement barring being an enigma when you go to show up live on the camera and the union between foreigners and koreans we have now? I think I'll take the later all day every day part of the sad thing of the kespa players coming to mlg was just how chained they seemed (in my opinion) | ||
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Treehead
999 Posts
On September 04 2012 19:15 IntoTheEmo wrote: Despite the fact that KeSPA has done many dodgy things in the past, I decided it was the lesser of the two evils a long time ago. I agree with Nikon - Blizzard holding the cards wouldn't do either - they'd just as quickly scrap the SC2 scene for WC4 when it's out. There's a reason why WoW arena isn't in MLG anymore (afaik)? The threat of KeSPA is good, keeps Blizzard on their toes. I'd count on Blizzard to do something shady if left in full control. Going to stop you right there. There is no WC4 and there never will be. WoW wrecked the world they used for that RTS. Any future RTS games like WC3 are going to need to be developed as a new brand. Warcraft is an MMO brand now, and Blizz has said they have no plans of ever turning it back. | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On September 04 2012 22:24 Chef wrote: I still find the logic a little hard to follow (with regards to the initial hate towards KeSPA). We know that KeSPA is a conglomorate of representatives from all the team, right? We know that two of those teams are MBC Heros and OGN Sparkies, right? So maybe that's only two out of 11 members, but doesn't it seem weird that MBCGame and OGN would be caught off guard by broadcasting rights issues? Surely they were both part of the party selling the rights in the first place... The logic escapes me unless they were excluded from KeSPA and it's not quite all the teams, but just the most powerful ones... But basically what ends up happening is OGN and MBC pay IEG and IEG pays KeSPA, which is 2/8ths OGN and MBC... Well, obviously something like that is exactly what happened, but I wouldn't call it crazy. In my opinon when GOM first started holding its BW leagues it made some pretty big mistakes. Originally it was kind of a one off invitational which was really cool. But then it put a strain on the system and reduced the quality of the whole leagues games. Why did OGN and MBC teams refuse to participate? They put value on the quality of their broadcasted games is another reason outside this IEG business which you've decided is the sole deciding factor. GOM should have set up a really nice league for amateurs, or made semi-professionals out of students. It was definitely wrong for them to take an established player base and weaken the two leagues that had built it up in exchange for almost nothing without telling anyone. Basically they ended up doing that with SC2 in a very legitimate way and have earned their peace. Now you're right, KeSPA is losing its players again, but again the reason to consolidate feels like an issue with quality of games and players. Too many leagues is one of the reasons SC2 is still boring to watch. Players flying all over the world, not practicing enough, getting jet lagged all the time, especially champions. KeSPA can't claim to be the prime source right now, that title basically belongs to GOM, but the more they tighten their reigns and their players become better, the more capable they will be of cutting off events and growing their scene. Maybe that sounds ironic, but there's a difference between sending players to BlizzCON once a year, and sending players every other week half way across the world. I believe in a focused scene. I still don't quite understand the broadcasting rights fiascos with MBC and OGN, but I do think that the reasons for cutting off GOM are more than that. Not to mention GOM has always had lower quality production. Unless you are a huge fan of GOM, there's no much reason to want to stop it from happening. SC2 stands to gain a lot from a focused scene. This is KeSPA saying we want to do things right instead of letting GOM fuck up everything. Still KeSPA has the recognize at least for now that they need GOM players to legitimize the talents of their own. Once it becomes clear KeSPA pros are competeting at or above the level of Code S, they'll do what they can to fix the scene if Blizzard doesn't get in the way. I prefer the scene the way it is rather than focusing it and I think it gains more popularity this way too. People like seeing rivalries/stories like eSF vs KeSPA, Foreigner Hope against many Koreans, Korean Dominance over many Foreigners, their favourite players in their own country or their favourite players tearing it up in other countries. While I understand that having a focused scene would probably create the absolute top quality of games, I'd rather have more opportunities to watch my favourite players while trying to keep as many people interested in SC2 as possible. | ||
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