• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:13
CEST 05:13
KST 12:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension Who will win EWC 2025? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Corsair Pursuit Micro? BW General Discussion Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
BWCL Season 63 Announcement CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
[MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 640 users

[1]No games that you should have won.

Blogs > MarineKingPrimeFan
Post a Reply
MarineKingPrimeFan
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hong Kong73 Posts
August 29 2012 08:16 GMT
#1
I just finished playing around 4 games of Fifa 12 Head to Head matches. I have lost 3 of them and won 1 of the four. I'm in division 2 and I play with AC Milan most of the time.

For those of you who don't know what FIFA 12 is, it's a virtual football game. In head to head matches, you pick any team you want and play online against other people who used teams with similiar ratings and who's in a similiar division. A division is like "leagues" in starcraft. Division 10, the worst is bronze / practice, while division 1, the best is GM.

So in the games I've lost, all of them, I had SO many chances. When I say so many, I mean around 6 chances that I should have scored on. Most people would score these chances, they are so easy to take and I score them 99% of the time.

however I've only scored 2 goals, out of the 6 each game. The opponent, who has literally no possesion, bad passing, bad defending in my opinion, has scored more than me somehow. I feel like they are lucky goals, i.e my defenders triped over each other, stupid cross ins headers which are just a gamble, lucky that I screwed up my defending which I nearly never do. I was dominating that game, but in the end I still lost. And my opponent celebrated like an absolute douche even though he knew, he fully realizes how lucky those goals are. Those goals are not worth celebrating at all. This is one way of BM in FIFA 12.

So I lost 3 of them, in a row.

I was mad.

real mad.

the last one which I won, it was 3-2. this one I had literally 10 chances, and he had 2.

again, 2 lucky goals for him, and for me 8 chances that I wiffed.

I felt like the game just didnt want me to win. I felt like it was the Game's fault, for somehow making the players screw up the shot.

Even though I won, I stopped playing, I couldn't handle it anymore. So I just calmed down and think of what went wrong.

To be honest, I still think and feel like I should have won that game really badly, but it was MY fault that I let him score on me, it was MY fault that I tripped up my defender, it was MY fault that I got angry, probably played worse as a result, and it was MY fault that I couldn't finish the chances I got (actually mostly it's due to the game )

So in the end it was MY fault that the match ended this way, and it was what I deserved.

Even games that you feel like you should have won, if you lost in the end, you deserved to lose.
An SC2 example :

I was playing a game, Terran v Terran on cloud kingdom. I was so ahead, probably I was at 175 supply, he was 110.
I went to atk him, he countered attack me, an all in. I was on 3 bases he was on 3 as well. He lifted all his stuff and flew it to my base. while my main army attacked whatever they could in his many.
At my base, I just sent my scvs to my natural while he attacked things at my third. I had my producing facilities producing units, and I thought I could easily hold it.

In the end I pulled all my scvs and engaged him, who has 6 sieged siege tanks at the choke of my natural. I lost in the end.

I was furious. But.... It was my stupid fault for engaging him at the choke of the natural. I should have just sat at my main, block the ramp and he wouldn't be able to make it up and I had a few sieged tanks too. But I decided to engage at my natural, lost all my units. And with some bad control in the end I lost the game.

That was a game which I think (I'm in masters league) if I let a silver player play it out, he would have won it. I made stupidly huge mistakes. but I, me, jason made it. so I, me, jason deserved to lose.

There isn't a game you lost, which you should have won.

Jason.


***
More Marines Please!
reikai
Profile Joined January 2011
United States359 Posts
August 29 2012 14:43 GMT
#2
FINALLY somebody else realizes this. This, honestly, should kill off all BM on the ladder from people raging about "stupid strats." If somebody played a "bad strategy" (deciding to follow the faulty logic), and beat you, YOU played even worse. No such thing as a loser "outplaying" the winner.

Well, you can outplay the winner and then make horrific mistakes :D
Et Ducit Mundum Per Luce. :T:
MarineKingPrimeFan
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hong Kong73 Posts
August 30 2012 12:16 GMT
#3
On August 29 2012 23:43 reikai wrote:
FINALLY somebody else realizes this. This, honestly, should kill off all BM on the ladder from people raging about "stupid strats." If somebody played a "bad strategy" (deciding to follow the faulty logic), and beat you, YOU played even worse. No such thing as a loser "outplaying" the winner.

Well, you can outplay the winner and then make horrific mistakes :D


Yup, that is a nice summary of what I wanted to say. I learnt this from Grubby, I asked him on his stream about it and he told us about it.
More Marines Please!
NewbieOne
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Poland560 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 20:18:50
August 30 2012 20:18 GMT
#4
Well, I look at that stuff a bit from a programmer's perspective (I coded a lot when I was younger), variables, algorithms, some basic designs. It is indeed stupid that some things work, it is possible for the better player to lose, even if he's playing better. To claim the contary is a noble, gentlemanly sports-like reflex that I respect but ultimately disagree with because it ultimately relies on some kind of noble fiction, I think.

This said, a mistake does generally mean you "deserve" to lose but you shouldn't use the word "deserve" to punish yourself, like take the blame on yourself because that's easier, the way those people do who say that if you have a problem with something then you can and should only change yourself, blah blah. Which is not true, it's motivational talking that works despite not being true.

When people talk about about a game somebody should've won, they don't mean an entitlement, a violation of some right to win a game. They rather mean that the expected, normal, typical consequence didn't happen, or basically that someone made a stupid, game-altering mistake so that on some level (which is not a level of objective truth of the matter by any means! nor does it necessarily say the other player didn't deserve his win) it feels vaguely unfair that he'd lose (e.g. after being in the lead all the time), they pity on the overall better player for ultimately losing on one mistake. This is an understandable feeling. A lot of the hassle about this comes from different understandings of the "should" and "should have" modalities. And people love twisting those understandings to make different points because people like paradoxes, contrarian attitudes, reframing, differentiation etc. In reality it's probably important to understand the emotional sensation that's going on, while realising that mistakes have consequences, and not let it get to one's head too much (or heart). And leave hair-splitting and word-twisting to compulsive debaters.

And for the record, it really doesn't mean you played worse than the other guy. This is because the ultimate result isn't actually the sole probe of skill. You played better, you mad a huge mistake (that probably had more to do with emotions over reason than with strategic miscalculation), it cost you the game, you did lose. But you didn't play worse, you didn't "deserve to lose" or anything like that (though there are some fighting philosophies that espouse such thinking, I just disagree with them; you also need to be careful when you choose to involve questions of moral fault, e.g. for negligence, in the judgement of your performance in a game or sport or some art). In the future you'll probably not make the mistake but rather judge the situation more coolly, in wholesome way, without rash decisions. Which is what matters.

I also think there might be some twisted sense of pride in refusing to allow oneself the explanation of a simple human mistake or some situation exceeding one's level of training (or otherwise one's proverbial paygrade). So one could look up some negligence or some other fault to blame for the loss, while it's that nobody is a robot, we all make mistakes.

Eh, and I understand those feelings, man. I've had a lot of them with Warcraft 3 (where I was more of a baller but still not a real gosu) and then with Starcraft 2 (placed silver, got demoted to bronze, what insult! yadda yadda). And yes, at least in the case of SC2 the objective truth is probably close to that I didn't do my homework, didn't appreciate my opponents, overrated my skill, underappreciated my skill decay (after like 3-4 years of not playing an RTS) etc., neglected some things, glossed over some other, displayed some hubris and some cavallier attitude. Then there was some frustration, some tiredness, some distraction, whatever. (Results can drop if you overpractice.) I guess calm and some positive thinking is the way to go. Gotta learn to deal with all those negative feelings, get them out of one's system.

I'm not sure it's possible to become a master at something with a laidback attitude but I'd like to if it were, as my chosen way of having at it.

GL HF in all your games!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 6h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft273
Nina 198
Livibee 130
NeuroSwarm 125
SpeCial 118
ProTech65
StarCraft: Brood War
Sharp 70
Noble 59
Icarus 5
League of Legends
JimRising 928
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox678
Other Games
summit1g16822
shahzam913
Maynarde264
ViBE81
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2247
BasetradeTV45
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH218
• Hupsaiya 73
• davetesta51
• Sammyuel 31
• practicex 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Stormgate
• mYiSmile10
Dota 2
• masondota21371
League of Legends
• Rush1350
• Stunt348
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d 6h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.