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Introduction or: Where is Sen?+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys!
To my and hopefully your excitement, i created a list of the best 30 foreign players. As you may know, those lists are rly subjective. I try to look at achievements and latest results, but its unavoidable to get personal opinions into this.
There is no such thing as the perfect „ranking“, but i enjoy doing those, most ppl enjoy reading them, but not many ppl put rankings out there.
My ranking is purely about foreign players and i exclude asian, non korean players as well – that means you wont find chinese or taiwanese players in my ranking. The simple reason being: i dont have much information about these scenes. I obviously know that Sen, Xigua and others are great players, but its impossible to compare them to the players in EU and NA. So you could consider it a „Western Foreigner Top 30“.
I put quite some work into it and i hope i get at least some reads, since i think a ranking made by a random person should be posted as a blog and not as a thread in the general section, even though it might end up with no responses at all.
So here is the list for this month!
Some comments on the ranking:+ Show Spoiler +The whole top 10 (besides Stephano) showed some unstable performances. Some stand out more than others though. ThorZaiN, Ret and especially HuK dont look as sharp anymore. While MaNa, Kas and Dimaga had some questionable results as well, they still move up simply because the players around them did worse. Honestly, there is probably no1 who deserves rank 8 this month. Lucifron didnt show much, but if you read his TLPD, the few results are still quite impressive and with many players failing a little, he maintains his rank. Titan simply doesnt seem to lose anymore lately, and when he does its against top foreigners or koreans which rarely happens. He makes a huge swing upwards. HasuObs just 3-0d ThorZaiN in TSL and is still as solid as ever. With players like MorroW (who was overrated last month probably anyway) and Happy not convincing me this month, he deserves to move up. Sheth, SeleCt, and even more so Frear didnt convince me either. Frear showed terrible games against Kas in TSL and didnt show any great results either. SeleCt wins some and loses some, but i dont think its quite enough for the top 20 anymore. Besides the showmatch vs Feast (who himself barely dropped out of the top 30) Sheth doesnt seem to win much anymore. MajoR finally shows us what he is made of as he does well in TSL. I knew he was good, but without seeing official games that count i couldnt rate him before. The new entries are the 3 european zergs SortOf, Vortix and JonnyRecco with SortOf immediatly going to rank 22. I think i dont have to explain why those 3 made it into the list. If you dont know why, just watch their TLPD's  DarkFoRcE, Naama, ToD, White-Ra, Feast, BratOK, BabyKnight, Bly, LiveZerg, ClouD and Scarlett would probably be the players to complete the Top 40 if you are curious, although i would have to think about that a lot more!
The following „20“ and others:+ Show Spoiler +
DarKFoRcE
Bly
LiveZerg
Scarlett
LoWeLy
KiLLeR
TLO
Suppy
Snute
Ostojiy
Following jEcho Tefel Ziktomini HayprO LaLuSh ViBe Cytoplasm TargA mOOnGlaDe Protosser Naugrim
BratOK
ClouD
DieStar
SjoW
Naama
Following Strelok GoOdy KawaiiRice Jinro Tarson Satiini qxc mErZ KraSS theognis
Feast
ToD
White-Ra
Axslav
BlinG
monchi
Bischu
Babyknight
Welmu
Following TT1 elfi Adelscott Pomi Seiplo
Rank 1 | 30 Pts.
Rank 2 | 27
Rank 3 | 24
Rank 4 | 22
Rank 5 | 20
Rank 6 | 19
Rank 7 | 18
Rank 8 | 17
Rank 9 | 16
Rank 10 | 15
Rank 11 | 14
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Rank 20 | 9,5
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Rank 30 | 4,5
Following 1 | 3,5
Following 2 | 2
2. 189 Pts.
3. 139 Pts.Top "5" Teamsnotice that only foreign players count in this ranking1. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/egsmallgmj63.png) Evil Geniuses | 54 Pts.
2. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/milleniumsmall5okat.png) Millenium | 39,5 Pts.
3. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/empiresmall1yjkg.png) Team Empire | 38 Pts.
4. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/roxkissmallxekbk.png) RoxKis | 38 Pts.
5. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/tlsmallteuqn.png) Team Liquid | 35 Pts.
Top "5" Nations1. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/smswedenyquan.jpg) Sweden | 110 Pts.
2. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/smusau0uuz.jpg) USA | 52,5 Pts.
3. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/smpolandumuhv.jpg) Poland | 49,5 Pts.
4. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/smukraine9ku00.jpg) Ukraine | 47 Pts.
5. ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/smrussial1ukr.jpg) Russia | 46,5 Pts.
 
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
butbutbut nerchio is the world champion!!! :D
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I mostly agree, but I would put Vortix and major higher, and Huk lower. Your list is pretty solid though, and very well done.
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I think you're maybe putting too much weight on the past and maybe need a little more on how people are looking in their games (win or lose) so whilst I don't entirely agree with your list, it was definately a fun read. The day someone produces a list everyone agrees with though, we might just be in trouble anyway! So with that, thank ye.
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To do this monthly is just so close to impossible.
For instance, in July (and I swear this is not EG hate) look at the results
IdrA
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Thorzain
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Huk
+ Show Spoiler +
If you were to look at just these 3 players, Idra would actually come out looking the best with wins over MKP, Bly, Bling and Cloud
Do I think IdrA would beat Thorzain or Huk? No. But I am failing to see how you can quantify your choices. This isn't to say I disagree or agree with your rankings, I just want to know more about how each person landed specifically where they are.
For the actual rankings I very much agree with your order with few exceptions.
I still don't see what Major did that was so special against Hyun. He won 3 games because hyun played like he had never seen a hellion before.
I can't believe that Scarlett and Naama didn't make the top 30. To me this is a vast oversight of 2 really good players. Scarlett should probably be around top 20 - 25 IMO
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Huk crashing hard since June 2012. Sad to see such a great player (and he's canadian!) fall from his former glory with HSC and MLG wins. Ah well, things change I guess. Stephano on the other hand deserves #1 without a doubt.
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Major needs to be way higher.
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On August 07 2012 00:23 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Major needs to be way higher.
Why exactly?
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On August 07 2012 00:17 Mattchew wrote:To do this monthly is just so close to impossible. For instance, in July (and I swear this is not EG hate) look at the results IdrA+ Show Spoiler +Thorzain+ Show Spoiler +Huk+ Show Spoiler +If you were to look at just these 3 players, Idra would actually come out looking the best with wins over MKP, Bly, Bling and Cloud Do I think IdrA would beat Thorzain or Huk? No. But I am failing to see how you can quantify your choices. This isn't to say I disagree or agree with your rankings, I just want to know more about how each person landed specifically where they are.
For the actual rankings I very much agree with your order with few exceptions. I still don't see what Major did that was so special against Hyun. He won 3 games because hyun played like he had never seen a hellion before. I can't believe that Scarlett and Naama didn't make the top 30. To me this is a vast oversight of 2 really good players. Scarlett should probably be around top 20 - 25 IMO
you always have to look where they come from.
HuK still qualified for Nasl finals somehow which idra was far away from.
thorzain won the dreamhack eizo open not too long ago.
Idra didnt do anything nearly as impressive for the longest time.
still, idra performed kind of similiar to those 2 (huk probably even perforamed worse), thats why he won 2 ranks while the others dropped. it is still not a "who is better right this second" - ranking while it plays the biggest role in the ranking.
Scarlett won WCS canada - yes. what i need is more results. Also keep in mind that anyone in the top30 would probably be favorite to win or at least get 2nd in this tournament. Naama also had fine results, but nothing that rly stood out - and most of his wins are kind of "cheesy" in a way which also plays a little role. He simply doesnt seem solid enough to justify top 30.
MajOrs win against Hyun wasnt as unimpressive as u say. "Hyun played like he has never seen a hellion before" - well, suprisingly a whole ton of people look like they never saw hellions before against major. He certainly makes things work others dont. Some even think i should rate him higher, but again, he won 5 ranks for the little we saw of him - i think its ok.
And another general note:
I'm very slow at making ppl drop or hyping ppl to much in my rankings, probably too slow. But when i see the reaction to Fraer's entry last month on rank 23, ppl said he probably belongs to the top 15 right now. Guess what - he obviously wasnt a complete fluke, but he doesnt play as great as he did a month ago and shows some questionable games.
HuK probably is not one of the best 12 players right now. But chances that he wins or places very high in a major tournament this month might still be higher than for other ppl. Wouldnt it be dumb to have someone on rank 25ish on your ranking winning a noticable tournament?
Thanks for all the feedback thusfar already, i rly like reading your opinions
Please post more to keep this thread up on the left site. It helps me to give this thread a bit more attention 
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United States8476 Posts
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others.
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On August 07 2012 00:56 NrGmonk wrote:
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others.
hm, id be ok to replace jrecco with naama or scarlett, but naame is def. not above idra, demuslim and select imo. and lucifron well... he just recently 2-1d puzzle. ofc he doesnt show much and even that is on and off (on a high level), but compared to those around him its still respectable.
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On August 07 2012 01:10 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 00:56 NrGmonk wrote:
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others. hm, id be ok to replace jrecco with naama or scarlett, but naame is def. not above idra, demuslim and select imo. and lucifron well... he just recently 2-1d puzzle. ofc he doesnt show much and even that is on and off (on a high level), but compared to those around him its still respectable.
what?
In both HSC5 and Assembly Naama did well, while Select as the grand total of 0 results.
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On August 07 2012 01:28 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 01:10 KalWarkov wrote:On August 07 2012 00:56 NrGmonk wrote:
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others. hm, id be ok to replace jrecco with naama or scarlett, but naame is def. not above idra, demuslim and select imo. and lucifron well... he just recently 2-1d puzzle. ofc he doesnt show much and even that is on and off (on a high level), but compared to those around him its still respectable. what? In both HSC5 and Assembly Naama did well, while Select as the grand total of 0 results.
true. if both would face now in a bo5 - who would u favor? i certainly know who i would favor^^ thats all im saying!
yes, he did quite well at hsc5 and assembly, i cant denie that but i dont see him being better than anyone in the top 30 honestly, i at least would slighly favor his top 30 opponent certainly.
again, its my opinion. result wise, select should probably be out of the ranking by now and naama/scarlett in. maybe also darkforce.
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United States8476 Posts
On August 07 2012 01:10 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 00:56 NrGmonk wrote:
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others. hm, id be ok to replace jrecco with naama or scarlett, but naame is def. not above idra, demuslim and select imo. and lucifron well... he just recently 2-1d puzzle. ofc he doesnt show much and even that is on and off (on a high level), but compared to those around him its still respectable.
Beating Puzzle 2-1 in an online tournament isn't that impressive, if that's all his major results in the past 2-3 months imo.
Naama won WCS Finland. He got in the 2nd group stage of HSC V where he beat tod, socke, and mvp. He also took maps off Nerchio and Ret. At Assembly, he made it to the 2nd group stage again, beating Huk and Suppy.
Select, in the last year, has qualified to the TSL by points, and won the NA MLG Arena tournament, and that's about it. He got eliminated by Suppy from MLG, got 4-0'd by violet from a showmatch, and lost to Destiny 2-0 at the Texas Lan. He goes to so many lans, but never gets past the first few rounds.
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On August 07 2012 01:33 Paljas wrote:
why do u hate strelok?
i dont think i have to comment on that^^
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On August 07 2012 00:28 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 00:17 Mattchew wrote:To do this monthly is just so close to impossible. For instance, in July (and I swear this is not EG hate) look at the results IdrA+ Show Spoiler +Thorzain+ Show Spoiler +Huk+ Show Spoiler +If you were to look at just these 3 players, Idra would actually come out looking the best with wins over MKP, Bly, Bling and Cloud Do I think IdrA would beat Thorzain or Huk? No. But I am failing to see how you can quantify your choices. This isn't to say I disagree or agree with your rankings, I just want to know more about how each person landed specifically where they are.
For the actual rankings I very much agree with your order with few exceptions. I still don't see what Major did that was so special against Hyun. He won 3 games because hyun played like he had never seen a hellion before. I can't believe that Scarlett and Naama didn't make the top 30. To me this is a vast oversight of 2 really good players. Scarlett should probably be around top 20 - 25 IMO you always have to look where they come from. HuK still qualified for Nasl finals somehow which idra was far away from. thorzain won the dreamhack eizo open not too long ago. Idra didnt do anything nearly as impressive for the longest time. still, idra performed kind of similiar to those 2 (huk probably even perforamed worse), thats why he won 2 ranks while the others dropped. it is still not a "who is better right this second" - ranking while it plays the biggest role in the ranking. Scarlett won WCS canada - yes. what i need is more results. Also keep in mind that anyone in the top30 would probably be favorite to win or at least get 2nd in this tournament. Naama also had fine results, but nothing that rly stood out - and most of his wins are kind of "cheesy" in a way which also plays a little role. He simply doesnt seem solid enough to justify top 30. MajOrs win against Hyun wasnt as unimpressive as u say. "Hyun played like he has never seen a hellion before" - well, suprisingly a whole ton of people look like they never saw hellions before against major. He certainly makes things work others dont. Some even think i should rate him higher, but again, he won 5 ranks for the little we saw of him - i think its ok. And another general note:I'm very slow at making ppl drop or hyping ppl to much in my rankings, probably too slow. But when i see the reaction to Fraer's entry last month on rank 23, ppl said he probably belongs to the top 15 right now. Guess what - he obviously wasnt a complete fluke, but he doesnt play as great as he did a month ago and shows some questionable games. HuK probably is not one of the best 12 players right now. But chances that he wins or places very high in a major tournament this month might still be higher than for other ppl. Wouldnt it be dumb to have someone on rank 25ish on your ranking winning a noticable tournament? Thanks for all the feedback thusfar already, i rly like reading your opinions Please post more to keep this thread up on the left site. It helps me to give this thread a bit more attention
When I was talking to idra huk and thorzain, I was speaking more generally of how you do your rankings. Its not that I particularly care where any of these people are ranked, I just wish to see a little more about how they got there. I think that like in Flamewheel's BW powerranks you need to include a reasoning for each player (or atleast lump 2 or 3 together) and speak to how they got to where they are in your rankings before and what they did to earn their ranking this month.
Regarding major I find it a little ironic that you bring up other zergs against his hellions after stating MajoR finally shows us what he is made of as he does well in TSL. I knew he was good, but without seeing official games that count i couldnt rate him before. Can you point me to official matches against zerg that he makes them look silly? because even he said in the TSL match that hyun was over droning and not preparing well enough for the hellions with either spines, roaches or lings
Also you have awesome graphics
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On August 07 2012 00:28 Mattchew wrote:Why exactly?
Multiple accounts in Korean GM, recent match against Hyun, and a gut feeling.
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Top "5" Nations
1. Sweden | 110 Pts.
2. USA | 52,5 Pts.
3. Poland | 49,5 Pts.
4. Ukraine | 47 Pts.
5. Russia | 46,5 Pts.
Wow, and hooray to Europeans.
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On August 07 2012 01:31 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 01:28 sAsImre wrote:On August 07 2012 01:10 KalWarkov wrote:On August 07 2012 00:56 NrGmonk wrote:
I have to agree that Naama deserves on this list. You may not like his play, but he consistently gets good results in EU tournaments. I would definitely rate him above Idra, Demuslim, Select, and I would favor him over them at any EU tournament.
I still think Select is ranked too high. No good results in a very very long time.
Lucifron is still ranked way too high. Since his breakout, he did well in 2 tournaments, but has had just mediocre to no results.
I would have personally put Sortof between Hasuobs and Happy, and moved him around a lot next month if he dissapoints us with results. But then again, I know your conservative style.
Similar with Vortix. I'm not too convinced on JohnnyREcco yet.
No complaints about Illusion this month though. =P
Overall, I'd say I agree with this ranking more than your others. hm, id be ok to replace jrecco with naama or scarlett, but naame is def. not above idra, demuslim and select imo. and lucifron well... he just recently 2-1d puzzle. ofc he doesnt show much and even that is on and off (on a high level), but compared to those around him its still respectable. what? In both HSC5 and Assembly Naama did well, while Select as the grand total of 0 results. true. if both would face now in a bo5 - who would u favor? i certainly know who i would favor^^ thats all im saying! yes, he did quite well at hsc5 and assembly, i cant denie that but i dont see him being better than anyone in the top 30 honestly, i at least would slighly favor his top 30 opponent certainly. again, its my opinion. result wise, select should probably be out of the ranking by now and naama/scarlett in. maybe also darkforce.
Naama should be favored against Huk, JonnyRecco, Fraer, Morrow and he's definitely on par with lot's of P.
There is definitely not enough variation, IE nightend is lower than Morrow despite having better results for at least a few months.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephano9ws71.jpg)
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Stephano ------ 2.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IMJdq.jpg)
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