• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:15
CEST 21:15
KST 04:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)63ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Possible bug in the new patch?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BSL Season 22
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7291 users

RE lesson 1

Blogs > Adrenal6land
Post a Reply
Adrenal6land
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States46 Posts
July 28 2012 09:57 GMT
#1
Yesterday i put up a post with first lesson of game theory

DO NOT play a dominated strategy. Play the dominating strategy.

i guess before i move on, i should clarify a few things. Yes I did cannon rush and "cheese" a lot of season 1. But i in no way think that cheesing is a winning strategy. unless you know your enemies build and strategy before hand, in which case i would say, you DO NOT control the actions of others and others do NOT controll your actions. so i would advise against using the "meta game" or any earlier knowledge to sway your gameplay in real time.
The main thing i want to clarify is that a player in this case is thought to know the pay outs, and is thought to know several strategies and facts about the game. of course as the game progresses, the meta game evolves and players learn more and more about what is and what is not a dominating strategy. This of course, requires a LOT of testing, playing, failing, tweeking, trying, guessing. but for any and all of these lessons, the player is thought to be at a high level of understanding and have a decent level of mechanis and game strategy.
I.E. you will not be able to properly execute a dominating strategy if you do not have the proper mechanics (know your hot keys, enough APM, playing a different race/style, playing on a server with lag, etcetcetc). I am assuming that you all know by now, that you can not cannon rush without a forge
The second point that i want to make, is that everyone has a really hard time letting go of the term "cheese". i know that that is what people call early rushes and really anoying easy "high risk, low reward" strategies. But the fact of the matter is, people just decided to call it cheese. Ill go ahead and repeat a point from yesterday. I used to cannon rush. for about 2 seasons. beta, season 1 and maybe some of season 2. I cannon rushed so much that not only did i cannon rush, but i cannon defended, i cannon contained, and most importantly, i cannon EXPANDED. The reason this is so important is that i was FFE'ing since season 1. very early in the game, protoss players realized that cannons were good. and guess what, they are very good against zerg and units with short range. If you are going to call a cannon rush cheese, then you might as well call a forge fast expand cheese because it is almost the exact same opening. pylong. forge. canon. think about that long and hard.

DO NOT play a dominated strategy. Play a Dominating strategy.

1 more thing i want to clarify.
Playing a dominating strategy will lead to results which are inefficient.

believe it or not, playing a long drawn out macro, 1hour long game, is INEFFICIENT. In the ideal scenario, you would make 10 probes, pull all your probes, attack with 10 probes, and you would win..... the ideal strategy for any protoss player is a 10 probe rush.
OF COURSE IT IS. we all know that if you tried that in game, in the real world, it would NOT WORK. The idea of having a dominating strategy is that it gives you the best odds of winning no matter what. I like what someone said yesterday about all ins and long strategies. If you play a short all in strategy, the problem with that is that you have 1 chance, if player 2 does not make a mistake and plays a better strategy, the game is over, (or your left waaaaay behind) and you do not win. The good thing about playing a dominating strategy, is you play long enough where your oponent has MANY chances to skrew up, you have many chances at winning the game. your chances of winning outweigh the risks.
your reward must be much bigger than the amount of risk it took to get it.
so i guess i can use this as a conclusion for today
Risk<reward
do not risk something, if you are not sure that you have a very high chance or reward. should i refrase that??????? yah? should i say it again? :D one more time???

DO NOT play a dominated strategy. Play a Dominating strategy.
play to win

*
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 28 2012 10:56 GMT
#2
Cheese is the definition for a high risk high reward strategy. It is a strategy; the kind of strategy is a cheese strategy. There are also long term strategies and mid term strategies and standard strategies and new strategies, hence why we have terms like cheese, standard, and non-standard. So I disagree with you that we should get rid of the term "cheese". I do think it is often considered a non-strategy or an unskilled strategy when it is not necessarily so.

Forge Fast Expand is from Brood War, not from SCII Protoss players thinking about it. People tried BW strategies, some worked and some didn't. FFE is one that did. It isn't cheese because it isn't high risk. It is classified as standard because a lot of people do it.

The thing about good strategies (that is, strategies that win more than they lose) is that over time the metagame shifts so that they start losing more than they win. There is no one strategy that will always be the best, unless Blizzard really screws up the balance of something. So far they haven't, although they've screwed it up a little it isn't enough to make any one strategy perfect. That's one of the things I love about both SCII and SCBW; the metagame constantly shifts and evolves, as strategies are designed to beat strategies which are designed to beat other strategies, and so on ad infinitum.

Once you have your mechanics down, the best way to improve is to set forth an idea of what you want, and then create your own build order to achieve that. If it's the same as an existing BO, that's fine, but the important thing is for you to personally fine tune and test the build until you understand it comprehensively. You will learn what builds it is strong against, and what it is weak against. And when you find a build that is strong against it, you can add in a new build that beats that strong build. As you continue this process you will become a thoroughly good player, with something to beat everyone.

Until someone who has done the same as you has one more strategy on the chain of strategies that you don't know the counter to

Bisu is the best at the Bisu Build because he knows its weaknesses and strengths and timings more thoroughly than anyone else. Do the same, whether it is with an existing build or your own. Know everything there is to know about a build and you will understand when and where to use it and be able to use it to its fullest potential.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
King of the Hill #254
EmpressLilyy59
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 766
LamboSC2 530
BRAT_OK 61
mouzStarbuck 38
MindelVK 32
ForJumy 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16323
Calm 2692
Mini 689
EffOrt 465
Jaedong 452
Shuttle 319
BeSt 160
ggaemo 148
Dewaltoss 142
firebathero 85
[ Show more ]
actioN 44
scan(afreeca) 36
Rock 15
HiyA 13
Purpose 6
Counter-Strike
ScreaM4307
fl0m2397
byalli1188
Other Games
FrodaN1035
Beastyqt781
ceh9654
ArmadaUGS181
Mew2King61
QueenE54
Trikslyr48
Organizations
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 485
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 83
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki29
• FirePhoenix10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4093
• TFBlade1053
Other Games
• imaqtpie792
• Shiphtur283
Upcoming Events
Bombastic Starleague
45m
Douyu Cup 2020
9h 45m
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Big Brain Bouts
20h 45m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 9h
Maestros of the Game
1d 17h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 18h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-24
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.