• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:38
CEST 21:38
KST 04:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th135Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued SC2 Parody - "Somebody That I Used to Troll" On design and lattest PTR patch notes
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Data analysis on 70 million replays Data needed
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4674 users

MLG Summer Arena Structure Change

Blogs > mockturtle
Post a Reply
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
July 19 2012 01:46 GMT
#1
MLG announced a while ago that they would be implementing a new structure for their Summer Arena. Here's the reddit thread. The tournament starts this weekend.

Thus far, MLG has done three arenas. Winter Arena and Spring Arena 2 were nearly identical. Both used 32 players, both used the same, standard double elimination bracket (well, almost standard -- it wouldn't be an MLG without extended series). The only difference was how the first round pairings were set: Winter Arena went directly by seeding while Spring Arena 2 let the top half seeds draft their opponents from the bottom half. Spring Arena 1 used a much different format and only had eight players, however it seems that MLG will not continue hosting this sort of event.

Summer Arena adds another subtle change. Rather than using a standard double elimination bracket, the players will first be separated into two groups. From there, double elimination play will yield two finalists. Those two players will face off in a single championship match.

While far from ideal, I think this is a wonderful change for MLG. A key problem with using double elimination brackets is the monumental advantage held by players who have not yet lost. As the tournament should be growing more exciting near the conclusion of the event, matches taking place in the losers bracket are between players highly unlikely to ultimately win the tournament. The finals, which should be the climax, often seems predetermined since not only does one player have a large handicap, oftentimes the match is a repeat of a pairing from one or two rounds prior.

In other words, tournament does not end with a "bang". It fizzles. The winners bracket finals and semifinals are often the most significant matches. While using double elimination affords the losers of these bouts a second chance they wouldn't get in a typical knockout tournament, the losers bracket tends to play out as though they were glorified consolation matches.

Winning from the losers bracket, of course, is not impossible. But "not impossible" doesn't make an event exciting to watch. The fact is, the winners bracket player will win an awful lot, and enough tournaments have happened on the Starcraft 2 circuit for this to become apparent. For me, it actually feels worse when the handicapped player is able to put up a strong fight, but still loses (see Squirtle vs. aLive at IPL4) -- it breaks my heart to know that they could have won if the match started out on even footing.

Considering this, MLG's structure change is a good move. While last few matches before the championship will suffer the same fate as before, the integrity of the finals is preserved since two players (who will have yet to play each other) will meet on an even playing field. No advantages, no obvious result. This should make watching the finals much more entertaining.

*****
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 19 2012 02:06 GMT
#2
Yeah I agree with you. I really like this change. I kinda remember reading in the announcement thread that some people were against it but I can't remember for what reasons. Can someone fill me in on the downsides? =)
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
July 20 2012 21:54 GMT
#3
On July 19 2012 11:06 Bibbit wrote:
Yeah I agree with you. I really like this change. I kinda remember reading in the announcement thread that some people were against it but I can't remember for what reasons. Can someone fill me in on the downsides? =)


I think the reasons were that they are haters and haters love to hate.

But in response to your question...I don't really want to call it a "downside" but a consequence of the two groups is that the players from each won't intermingle. This means that luck of the draw making one group stronger than the other can distort some of the rankings from their theoretical "true" rankings. e.g., if the absolute 1st and 2nd best player overall wind up in one group, 2nd best player must finish in 3rd/4th and won't be able to challenge for 2nd -- or if the #1 and #2 players were split, but #3, #4, #5, #6 were all together with #1, then they will finish #3-3rd/4th (still accurate), #4-5th/6th (slightly off), #5-7th/8th (little more off), #6-9th/10th/11th/12th (more off).

Of course, Starcraft win rates among similarly skilled players can vary wildly so bracket stacking in a small, relatively even field is not a huge deal. It probably only has a significant effect on deciding which of the weaker ~65% of the players are able to make it into the top 16 for the Raleigh pool play.

Different tournament formats and structures show some of their benefits in clarity/accuracy in different rank ranges. A standard double elimination doesn't really do a much better job at finding a #1 compared to single elimination, and not even much better at finding a #2 either (*especially* if you have some decent seeding). It's real strength is accuracy in the rungs below #1/#2 to the top 20% of the field, especially when seeding is poor or unavailable. This is part of why I actually loathe double elimination (when played to the winner -- gsl groups/dual tournament style, for example, is a-ok by me) -- figuring out who is better between 7th and 8th place does not interest me (or anyone else since consolation matches are almost never watched, even if it's 3rd/4th), so I don't want a tournament to be twice as long just to have the right person get 5th place. MLG's new format trades away a tiny bit of that strength of double elimination but gives a more accurate #1 out of the two finalists.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
15:30
Group A
TriGGeR vs MaruLIVE!
Reynor vs TBD
ComeBackTV 1251
IntoTheiNu 1106
ZombieGrub603
TaKeTV 599
SteadfastSC511
Ryung 353
IndyStarCraft 230
3DClanTV 103
CosmosSc2 91
Rex87
EnkiAlexander 68
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub603
SteadfastSC 511
Ryung 353
IndyStarCraft 230
UpATreeSC 122
CosmosSc2 91
Rex 87
elazer 86
BRAT_OK 72
JuggernautJason67
goblin 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1750
Dewaltoss 105
Movie 86
soO 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Rock 13
Dota 2
420jenkins319
Counter-Strike
fl0m9729
pashabiceps2432
byalli691
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu374
Other Games
Grubby4770
singsing2113
FrodaN1783
B2W.Neo866
Dendi345
DeMusliM334
C9.Mang0168
mouzStarbuck160
KnowMe102
Pyrionflax101
Trikslyr66
Mew2King34
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1169
• Lourlo498
Other Games
• imaqtpie981
• WagamamaTV301
• Shiphtur235
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
14h 22m
Kung Fu Cup
15h 22m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
19h 22m
Maestros of the Game
19h 52m
ByuN vs herO
Rogue vs Bunny
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 15h
OSC
1d 17h
Maestros of the Game
1d 19h
Serral vs Percival
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Clem vs Lambo
Zoun vs SKillous
Replay Cast
3 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Grudge Match
3 days
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
GSL
4 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.