• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:00
CEST 10:00
KST 17:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists12[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced10Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail0MaNa leaves Team Liquid19
StarCraft 2
General
Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1992 users

MLG Summer Arena Structure Change

Blogs > mockturtle
Post a Reply
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
July 19 2012 01:46 GMT
#1
MLG announced a while ago that they would be implementing a new structure for their Summer Arena. Here's the reddit thread. The tournament starts this weekend.

Thus far, MLG has done three arenas. Winter Arena and Spring Arena 2 were nearly identical. Both used 32 players, both used the same, standard double elimination bracket (well, almost standard -- it wouldn't be an MLG without extended series). The only difference was how the first round pairings were set: Winter Arena went directly by seeding while Spring Arena 2 let the top half seeds draft their opponents from the bottom half. Spring Arena 1 used a much different format and only had eight players, however it seems that MLG will not continue hosting this sort of event.

Summer Arena adds another subtle change. Rather than using a standard double elimination bracket, the players will first be separated into two groups. From there, double elimination play will yield two finalists. Those two players will face off in a single championship match.

While far from ideal, I think this is a wonderful change for MLG. A key problem with using double elimination brackets is the monumental advantage held by players who have not yet lost. As the tournament should be growing more exciting near the conclusion of the event, matches taking place in the losers bracket are between players highly unlikely to ultimately win the tournament. The finals, which should be the climax, often seems predetermined since not only does one player have a large handicap, oftentimes the match is a repeat of a pairing from one or two rounds prior.

In other words, tournament does not end with a "bang". It fizzles. The winners bracket finals and semifinals are often the most significant matches. While using double elimination affords the losers of these bouts a second chance they wouldn't get in a typical knockout tournament, the losers bracket tends to play out as though they were glorified consolation matches.

Winning from the losers bracket, of course, is not impossible. But "not impossible" doesn't make an event exciting to watch. The fact is, the winners bracket player will win an awful lot, and enough tournaments have happened on the Starcraft 2 circuit for this to become apparent. For me, it actually feels worse when the handicapped player is able to put up a strong fight, but still loses (see Squirtle vs. aLive at IPL4) -- it breaks my heart to know that they could have won if the match started out on even footing.

Considering this, MLG's structure change is a good move. While last few matches before the championship will suffer the same fate as before, the integrity of the finals is preserved since two players (who will have yet to play each other) will meet on an even playing field. No advantages, no obvious result. This should make watching the finals much more entertaining.

*****
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 19 2012 02:06 GMT
#2
Yeah I agree with you. I really like this change. I kinda remember reading in the announcement thread that some people were against it but I can't remember for what reasons. Can someone fill me in on the downsides? =)
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
July 20 2012 21:54 GMT
#3
On July 19 2012 11:06 Bibbit wrote:
Yeah I agree with you. I really like this change. I kinda remember reading in the announcement thread that some people were against it but I can't remember for what reasons. Can someone fill me in on the downsides? =)


I think the reasons were that they are haters and haters love to hate.

But in response to your question...I don't really want to call it a "downside" but a consequence of the two groups is that the players from each won't intermingle. This means that luck of the draw making one group stronger than the other can distort some of the rankings from their theoretical "true" rankings. e.g., if the absolute 1st and 2nd best player overall wind up in one group, 2nd best player must finish in 3rd/4th and won't be able to challenge for 2nd -- or if the #1 and #2 players were split, but #3, #4, #5, #6 were all together with #1, then they will finish #3-3rd/4th (still accurate), #4-5th/6th (slightly off), #5-7th/8th (little more off), #6-9th/10th/11th/12th (more off).

Of course, Starcraft win rates among similarly skilled players can vary wildly so bracket stacking in a small, relatively even field is not a huge deal. It probably only has a significant effect on deciding which of the weaker ~65% of the players are able to make it into the top 16 for the Raleigh pool play.

Different tournament formats and structures show some of their benefits in clarity/accuracy in different rank ranges. A standard double elimination doesn't really do a much better job at finding a #1 compared to single elimination, and not even much better at finding a #2 either (*especially* if you have some decent seeding). It's real strength is accuracy in the rungs below #1/#2 to the top 20% of the field, especially when seeding is poor or unavailable. This is part of why I actually loathe double elimination (when played to the winner -- gsl groups/dual tournament style, for example, is a-ok by me) -- figuring out who is better between 7th and 8th place does not interest me (or anyone else since consolation matches are almost never watched, even if it's 3rd/4th), so I don't want a tournament to be twice as long just to have the right person get 5th place. MLG's new format trades away a tiny bit of that strength of double elimination but gives a more accurate #1 out of the two finalists.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 85
SortOf 34
OGKoka 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 692
Stork 171
Larva 84
soO 40
Sharp 36
NaDa 34
Bale 21
Hm[arnc] 20
SilentControl 16
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm115
League of Legends
JimRising 537
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1340
allub27
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King167
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi541
ceh9483
C9.Mang0403
Happy174
-ZergGirl73
crisheroes58
Trikslyr18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick685
BasetradeTV185
Counter-Strike
PGL126
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH291
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1119
• Jankos319
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
2h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3h
CranKy Ducklings
16h
Escore
1d 2h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 3h
OSC
1d 7h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 19h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
IPSL
2 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-15
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.