• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:53
CEST 19:53
KST 02:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo15Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11267 users

The Pro-Trick

Blogs > Talic_Zealot
Post a Reply
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-12 13:19:18
July 12 2012 12:17 GMT
#1
While watching Apollo's pain while learning to do the rail jump on Quake's DM6 i had some thoughts and I'd like to share them.
Amidst the 'better game' jokes of 2GD I started to think: We had these in SC too, but not this one. Rail-bridge jump, plasma climb, specific rocket boost/jumps; they all give the same feel of the hard and useful trick as things like muta stack control vs turrets/triangle shot vs scourge, shuttle reaver drop-micro, vulture/corsair patrol micro. Looking at the bigger picture the games are nearly identical, but when trying to emulate the pros SC2 can feel really similar to a fan, while in BW and QL you can hit that sudden wall, and while it is a wall of pain, it is also a wall of amazement and appreciation. "This feels like it is impossible" were the words of dApollo just after seeing James do it before him.
In BW a phoenix would need to be commanded to patrol forward then immediately after the initiation of the animation commanded to move forward; a colossus would need to either move back then hold position then move forward or be commanded to patrol 270degrees backwards then to move forward.
These micro techniques or tricks are there because of the way the engine moves the units and the different detection algorithms work, similarly Quake's physics make everything work. The StarCraft2 designers made a choice with macro, they recognised that their design hampered depth, but implemented 'macro mechanics' in order to remedy that rather than making a change to the primary way the game works. As they seem rather reluctant to mess with anything of the sort if they wanted look into micro they would probably do something similar. Would implementing a micro mechanic of sorts be even possible, or a right design decision? Am I correct to feel that this is a necessary missing element? I would appreciate to hear some opinions.

****
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
Xiron
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-12 12:26:12
July 12 2012 12:25 GMT
#2
I would appreciate making the micro more complex. Not because I feel I'm not challenged, but because it would add more depth to the viewer experience. Being able to appreciate more and more subtleties is what keeps the game interesting for me.
"The way of life can be free and beautiful. But we have lost the way. " - Charlie Chaplin
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
July 12 2012 13:41 GMT
#3
It's not only about algorythms (thought I agree to a certain extent to you) but also about unit design.

Collosus rays could be bigger but slower so they could be dodger for example, fungals could slow movement while damaging instead of keeping stuff in place, etc.

Of course all of these things would need to be balanced out, but in the end it's also a choice of making interesting units, beside the code behind them.

But I agree that came bugs or "unintended features" are what made some games what they are (K-style in GunZ is another example)
Moderator<:3-/-<
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
July 12 2012 15:31 GMT
#4
I don't think they should add artificial micro tricks, they should happen naturally.

Yeah, in BW bugs became amazing features. The game is amazing because of that, great units design and the fact that a pro can use a stack of mutas 99x better than the best amateur, for example. Day9 explained that very well in one of his videos.

SC2 suffers from really bad units/spells design and too often patching. Let the players figure out how to revolutionize the strategies, like how it happened in BW history.

And lastly, for gods fucking sake Blizzard, stop trying to balance the game at "all levels", thats just plain stupid.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
Ro8 M3
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague: PTB vs ASH
Freeedom20
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 690
BRAT_OK 84
MindelVK 27
Ketroc 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23749
Horang2 894
actioN 545
ggaemo 333
firebathero 156
Leta 154
Hyun 75
Movie 62
Barracks 52
scan(afreeca) 46
[ Show more ]
Shine 21
Rock 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
Dota 2
qojqva1586
420jenkins334
Counter-Strike
fl0m11039
tarik_tv8630
summit1g4201
byalli612
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor303
Trikslyr54
Other Games
singsing1916
Grubby970
Mlord791
B2W.Neo532
FrodaN390
uThermal235
DeMusliM85
UpATreeSC53
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1047
gamesdonequick820
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 39
• Response 6
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2194
• Jankos1816
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 2085
• Shiphtur167
Other Games
• imaqtpie520
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 7m
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
6h 7m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
17h 7m
GSL
18h 7m
IPSL
22h 7m
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
23h 7m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 1h
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 6h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 17h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.