Edit: I am not in general comparing bw to only sc2, but to the countless rts's I have played trough my years
I am just amazed, I have been watching bw since sc2 beta hit the scene (so not for so long) and I played sc2 casually for some time, on and off. I have as of late started making money of it playing semi proffessional and is currently ranked 1 master 1150 points this season, beating the lesser pros consistently and have been taking a brake for some weeks, just playing a few sc2 games.
Now during my time off, me and some of my teammates started playing bw and.. I am completely humbled by bw. I am just so FUCKING in love with it.
I love macroing in it, it just has this enormous flow over it.
The units feel so real, so strong, I never feel like I am in a totally lost position, I always feel that I can get back.
I went terran, as that race has always been in my heart (play zerg in sc2 because I love to multitask and macro) and even just microing vultures is such an ecstatic feeling. To learn bit by bit over the game how to shoot and scoot, how to keep acceleration going. It requires effort to learn,dedication to master.
I went 14 cc on fighting spirit with the other two (Z/P) spawning in the left and right corner.
I went by sc2 experience and did a 15 rax and 17 refinery which should keep me safe vs early pressure but be able to tech in a good way to fac to get my mech going.
I just tried to play in it, I had from first campaign mission gotten the feel of how much a base can support of a base and settled to get
2 fac/w mshop - double upgrade (thank you 14 cc for early ref :3) into 2 armories for dual upgrades
3 fac for vulture productions
I basically just macroed my heart out and started harassing the zerg, seeing how few units he had I started pushing out with 2 tanks and about 6 vultures + those harassing; hoping to brake him while his army was probably killing P.
Lurkers gave me troubles, but with scan and good siege I could take them out. Meanwhile at my base I floated 1k 1k and had to go into hardcore mode to spend it, all because of one supply block. Mismacroing in bw feels so much more penalizing. I kept throwing army after army while laying spidermines everywhere and just keeping up macroing.
After both players tapped out due to my unending 1+ 1+ (Forgot science facility ) mech.
And all I can say is:
This game just feels so... FUN, I feel strength and joy in adversary of the hard mechanics.
I LOVE this game, and have been truly missing out :D - How unfortunate I come when the pro scene is being switched out. I would have loved to dedicate my life to it and participate in wsc. Sc2 motivation for me is purely on the competitive side, while this game is just so fun to play overall.
This feeling of the ability to attain Perfect Play hums over it. Not something I feel in sc2.
I am going to keep playing sc2 (I have to qualify for wsc Sweden), but I just can't bring myself keep playing it, and I am going to start iccuping it tomorrow and keep updating this blog to just keep tabs for myself on my progress !!
Yea SC1 is remarkable. It has properties I've never seen in any other videogame. For me, I doubt anything else will ever replace it, and the role it played.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
Great to hear some BW love. Personally, I play both SC2 and BW, two relatively similar yet distinctly different games. I think you hit the nail on the head on how rewarding and, I daresay visceral, good mechanics are in BW (although harder than SC2). The difficulty of the mechanics is what gives that large range of skill levels we've come to love, not to mention that BW units just seem to have that *OOMPH* to them (Two seige tanks in SC2 feel piddly compared to the war machines they are in BW).
Anywho, enough of me blithering praise, I look forward to how you do in iCCup! Good luck, man (and do well in WCS)!
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
Bad pathing makes it so you can't a-move an army and win, especially as Terran. You have to micro a whole lot. It sounds to me like you a-moved a sunken and ran over a bunch of lurkers.
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
did you attack into lurkers?
Perhaps? I will never know, I could not get iccup launcher to turn on again. I don't remember the error number, but there was no solution for it on the interwebs.
I wouldn't know. I would assume that he would be atleast on lair tech at that time, so maybe he did morph some hydralisks in to lurkers.
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
You may not have had fun, but the other guy was probably jumping in his chair like a 2 year old kid.
Ah, good to see some appreciation ^_^ Such a nice contrast against my friends who refuse to play BW with me Always complaints about graphics being terrible, but I think its just them making excuses for having terrible mechanics to play the game ;p
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
did you attack into lurkers?
Perhaps? I will never know, I could not get iccup launcher to turn on again. I don't remember the error number, but there was no solution for it on the interwebs.
I wouldn't know. I would assume that he would be atleast on lair tech at that time, so maybe he did morph some hydralisks in to lurkers.
you should upload the replay
Regardless, I don't think it's wise to judge a game just from a single match, but then again I'm bias. This might come out as offensive (but its not), but why would you feel bad from losing when you don't know how to play in the first place? It's one thing to feel frustrated when you've practiced 200 games just to lose to something you could easily defend, but if you are just trying out BW, you shouldn't feel bad from losing if you are just ad-libbing builds. To tell you the truth, I think people who are actually good at BW (and actually probably any good progamer) all have this mentality where they think they suck at the game.
On June 30 2012 19:37 polyphonyEX wrote: This feeling was there in WC3 as well. Unfortunately Blizzard went downhill after wow.
I can second this. Athough at the end I was the one that switched over from Frozen Throne to Broodwar. WarCraft was very good for watching too - Iremeber watching GOM-TV Northon Antivirus tournament and it was pretty awesome.
Now SC2 for me personally isn't really fun to watch or play.
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
did you attack into lurkers?
Perhaps? I will never know, I could not get iccup launcher to turn on again. I don't remember the error number, but there was no solution for it on the interwebs.
I wouldn't know. I would assume that he would be atleast on lair tech at that time, so maybe he did morph some hydralisks in to lurkers.
you should upload the replay
Regardless, I don't think it's wise to judge a game just from a single match, but then again I'm bias. This might come out as offensive (but its not), but why would you feel bad from losing when you don't know how to play in the first place? It's one thing to feel frustrated when you've practiced 200 games just to lose to something you could easily defend, but if you are just trying out BW, you shouldn't feel bad from losing if you are just ad-libbing builds. To tell you the truth, I think people who are actually good at BW (and actually probably any good progamer) all have this mentality where they think they suck at the game.
Big list of why I personally don't like BW, spoilered so that if anyone is a huge zealot and apologist for BW he won't have to read it. + Show Spoiler +
I probably would give it a try again, but when my iccup launcher broke and so many things bothered me I just never tried again, Simply finding a match took 30 minutes because every lobby was passworded and no-one would respond to my chat room requests. Then the game itself, the biggest thing that just annoyed me so much was unit movement. SCVs were retarded (I'm OK with manually rallying, but attacking harassing drone and even making buildings.. uhg...), marines seemed to be OK actually, and tanks I could understand how to move them even though I was not good at it. I didn't like how my groups of twelve moved in zig-zags across the map. The way mutalisks are stacked is the most confusing visual ever. It literally looks like one mutalisks, and you can never know what is going on. And the only thing I have against the graphics: it is so hard to know what high ground and low ground is.
Maybe on my new ssd iccup launcher would not be broken, but it still doesn't answer that literally no-one would play with me.
On June 30 2012 12:38 Thaniri wrote: I tried playing SC1.
It was a TvZ.
1 Rax FE. I tried doing a +1 marine medic push with some tanks and scvs for bunkers. Couldn't tell you the timing, Couldn't tell you how many bases zerg was on.
I approached his creep, sieged, saw a single sunken, and watched as all of my units just died.
I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel any joy in that game. I literally kept my money low, made units, and arbitrarily decided I would attack with +1 and I died.
Infact, I came off that game with a rather negative impression, my units walked around idiotically. I couldn't bear to consider playing Protoss and trying to make a dragoon walk. And then, without actually knowing what has happened, my army was just dead.
After that my iccup launcher wouldn't work again, so I never tried. ______
However, I do get the joy you are describing, in controlling my armies in SC2.
There is something electrifying about army control in SC2 for me. I love in TvP doing a drop, while controlling two seperate blocks of army, with ghosts and vikings in between. As one army baits a chase, the other attacks. As Protoss blinks all his stalkers to defend a drop, you send in your vikings. You snipe all his templar, you EMP all his zealots. All within 30 seconds. It's fun to do it. I rarely pull it off (1/20 games maybe) but when I do, it is FUN.
Doing two drops in TvZ, then doing the fastest tank hop ever to snipe off an expo and retreat. Attempt to out multitask your opponent and get damage done in atleast one location. But wait, you opponent is even better at multitasking than you. Now you're running cloaked ghosts with nukes, doing drops, seperating your big army to defend AND to pick off expansions.
Army control is complicated, and I love it.
I just can't begin to understand what BW is, and I don't think there is a point in forcing it. I understand that some people get a thrill from the cross-map headshot (who am I kidding, we all fucking do), some think that an awesome stun into gank is a good way to get adrenaline pumping, and some people get joy from the sheer mechanical complexity of a game.
So, I have stated that I personally don't understand what the fuck BW is, (except for watching TvT, it is eerily similar to sc2 TvT), but I am happy that it can be such a source of joy for you. Don't let it die, keep enjoying it, you don't need a 'scene' to play a game. There are still people who turn on their NES to play Zelda 2, some people are on their Segas playing Sonic the hedgehog. Appreciate the game.
did you attack into lurkers?
Perhaps? I will never know, I could not get iccup launcher to turn on again. I don't remember the error number, but there was no solution for it on the interwebs.
I wouldn't know. I would assume that he would be atleast on lair tech at that time, so maybe he did morph some hydralisks in to lurkers.
you should upload the replay
Regardless, I don't think it's wise to judge a game just from a single match, but then again I'm bias. This might come out as offensive (but its not), but why would you feel bad from losing when you don't know how to play in the first place? It's one thing to feel frustrated when you've practiced 200 games just to lose to something you could easily defend, but if you are just trying out BW, you shouldn't feel bad from losing if you are just ad-libbing builds. To tell you the truth, I think people who are actually good at BW (and actually probably any good progamer) all have this mentality where they think they suck at the game.
Big list of why I personally don't like BW, spoilered so that if anyone is a huge zealot and apologist for BW he won't have to read it. + Show Spoiler +
I probably would give it a try again, but when my iccup launcher broke and so many things bothered me I just never tried again, Simply finding a match took 30 minutes because every lobby was passworded and no-one would respond to my chat room requests. Then the game itself, the biggest thing that just annoyed me so much was unit movement. SCVs were retarded (I'm OK with manually rallying, but attacking harassing drone and even making buildings.. uhg...), marines seemed to be OK actually, and tanks I could understand how to move them even though I was not good at it. I didn't like how my groups of twelve moved in zig-zags across the map. The way mutalisks are stacked is the most confusing visual ever. It literally looks like one mutalisks, and you can never know what is going on. And the only thing I have against the graphics: it is so hard to know what high ground and low ground is.
Maybe on my new ssd iccup launcher would not be broken, but it still doesn't answer that literally no-one would play with me.
I can say that I completely understand this, and honestly, it IS frustrating. But I feel personally the more I played the more tricks I learned to smooth scv movement and smooth unit movement. So it is still really shitty, but I feel like I can improve the movements and making units less retarded. However I do completely understand and feel the same frustration but somehow it just makes me want to play more
EPT
) mech.
!!
