• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:42
CEST 15:42
KST 22:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview5[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris38Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
#2: Serral - Greatest Players of All Time 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Kirktown Chat Brawl #8 - 4.6K max Tonight LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups BW General Discussion No Rain in ASL20?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! Small VOD Thread 2.0 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 626 users

Magic

Blogs > Navane
Post a Reply
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
June 16 2012 13:56 GMT
#1
Jezus christ had one bottle of water one bread. He did some magic and turned it many loaves of bread and fed hunderds of people. Or something along those lines; I'm not raised religiously.

In todays world this would be illegal. You cannot just make copies of products, even though you own them. This would be copyright infringement. I recently came up with an analogie quite similare to the one above:

Suppose there was magic in the world. You could just point at a physical thing and you could create a perfect copy out of thin air. Everybody could do this; getting copies of everything in the world for free. With how the industries and governements are today; this would immidiatly be shut down and forbidden.

Think about this for a second; even if we had magic in this world; our own elected governments would forbid this. Magic would be forbidden.

Of course this is what we do everyday with computers and the internet; copy things we see and like. I think the reason we came to this point can be seen if we look at the history.

Before the invention ofmass production in the 19th century, there was no such thing as copyright. Nobody held the right to make swords in a certain way; the creators might have tried to keep it a secret by not telling anyone, but they had no right to keep something from following their receipe if that someone might have gotten it. Nobody held the copyright on certain types of ballistic weaponry, clothes or bread receipes.

Mass production could only thrive if there was some kind of copyright protection; the new TECHNOLOGY made it impirative new legislation was made to ensure it's succes. Otherwise competitiors could now blindly copy products and outsell the original inventor because they didn't had to make the investment of inventing. Because the rich and powerfull people were made and stood behind mass production, this legislation could be enforced.

We are seeing the same thing happening over copyright infringement on data right now, in these times. The man made powerfool by and standing behind the entertainment and software industry are creating legislation to protect their power. They use the part of this new TECHNOLOGY to protect their own and forbid the parts which endanger them.

Piracy is not (just) about getting stuff for free, it is about using a technology in its full force, without the idea's from the past. Forbidding copying information is like forbidding magic.


*
Incze
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Romania2058 Posts
June 16 2012 14:40 GMT
#2
I'm trying to find the point in your post. Everything is so hypothetical. Were there magic, like the one you described, the world would be very different, obviously. There wouldn't be any mass production, or, if there was, there would definitely be some measures of protection (I guess that in a world where magic exists, anything can happen, including objects shielded by mystical runes that prevent them from being copied and such).
Religion: Buckethead
AegonC
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States260 Posts
June 16 2012 14:41 GMT
#3
I think the magic is like in book you eat and be filled. But this mean somtime you break the law as mentioned. Some people need to be like microwaves in life, others strive to be like the goat. But all people need guidance and magic in life, i think answer to your question. This problem with technology might be good, or bad.
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
June 16 2012 14:47 GMT
#4
I'm not sure about the point yet, too.

To me, it's mainly the realiziation that we live in a society that would ban 'free everything for everyone.' And that that idea doesn't disguist people.
blubbdavid
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Switzerland2412 Posts
June 16 2012 15:04 GMT
#5
What bothers me is why pirates MUST download stuff. Are they so entangled in the consume culture of the 21th century that they even need to form a party so that they can go on consume the TV shows and games legally? Why not read a book?
What do you desire? Money? Glory? Power? Revenge? Or something that surpasses all other? Whatever you desire - that is here. Tower of God ¦¦Nutella, drink of the Gods
empty.bottle
Profile Joined July 2009
685 Posts
June 16 2012 15:18 GMT
#6
Oh I pirate a loot of books too :D
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1510 Posts
June 16 2012 16:43 GMT
#7
You assume that if this "magic" were real, that we would live in a capitalistic society. If we had this magic, there would be no scarcity, everyone would have as much as they need of everything they need. Always. If I invented a new sword, why would I want to keep it away from a farmer? To get bread from him? No. I can replicate as much bread as I want. To get gold from him? Same deal. And since its not hurting me in any way, nine times out of ten, I would just give away anything new I made. And so would everyone else. It's the perfect communistic society.

I hate it when people hear the word communism, and get all riled up: "The soviet union was a communism! Therefore communism is BAD!!" The soviet union was a dictatorship. That was why so many people died. The communism didn't make it evil, only inefficient. People wouldn't work because they saw no incentive to work. Therefore less was produced. In a world with scarcity, this can have drastic reprocussions. Inefficiency plus dictatorship created a society doomed to fail. Why communism got all the bad media, I don't know.

Incentives do exist in a world where there's no scacity too. It's different from our incentives, but it exists. People want attention, they want others to appreciate what they do. It might not be as strong of a driving force as wanting to eat, but it's incentive. And what are the repercussions if someone does not comply in a scarcity free world? Who is hurt? No one. There is just slightly slower progress for society.

The reason why we have all these laws and a messed up society is the combination of scarce goods (like bread) in the same world as non-scarce goods (like TV shows). Some can be copied for free, and others take just as much work as the original to copy. But it took work for both of them to be created in the first place. An we can't just give away all the TV shows, because then the makers of the TV shows wouldn't be able to eat bread! So we can't just have a communistic society, we still have to rely on capitalism. But enforcing capitalism is impossible with these goods that are free to copy. Also, what do you do about goods like cars where the design can be copied (which cost millions of dollars) but the parts cannot? Since we originated in a society where everything was scarce transitioning into a society where some things are scarce and others aren't is a huge social, political, and most of all economic problem. Our current capitalism doesn't quite work, but communism doesn't work either! This is a major problem in today's age, and if anyone had a clear fair solution that works in every case, we'll it would be solved yet, but we would be a huge step closer.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
June 16 2012 20:46 GMT
#8
google "3D printers" ;-)
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 16 2012 22:31 GMT
#9
On June 16 2012 22:56 Navane wrote:
You cannot just make copies of products, even though you own them.


Yes, you can. How do you think digitization of media is legal in any way?
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
June 16 2012 22:54 GMT
#10
On June 17 2012 07:31 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 22:56 Navane wrote:
You cannot just make copies of products, even though you own them.


Yes, you can. How do you think digitization of media is legal in any way?


You're right. I should hace specified; allthough I own the DVD of The Hulk, I cannot copy it and give those copies away. Like JC gave his copies of the bread away.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
June 16 2012 23:51 GMT
#11
On June 17 2012 07:54 Navane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 07:31 heyoka wrote:
On June 16 2012 22:56 Navane wrote:
You cannot just make copies of products, even though you own them.


Yes, you can. How do you think digitization of media is legal in any way?


You're right. I should hace specified; allthough I own the DVD of The Hulk, I cannot copy it and give those copies away. Like JC gave his copies of the bread away.


So your analogy in defense of piracy is based on an allegory about charity?

I'm completely fucking confused. Tell you what, let's assume for just a minute that copyright was abolished and copy protection was made illegal. Now, let's ask a realistic question: Do you really think people would invest millions in producing the media so that you could legally get it for free, in the HOPE that you would throw some money their way?

Call me a realist, but people are greedy and selfish. Every country has laws to protect it's citizens from the greed and selfishness of each other, copyright is just the same thing.

Now, are the current laws a little ridiculous? Yeah, a touch. But that doesn't mean the solution is to do away with the system completely. That's like saying that Anarchy is the only solution for a corrupt government.
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
June 17 2012 10:15 GMT
#12
I understand that in the past, the invention of stuff had to be motivated, for instance via copyright protection. But I feel that the stuff being invented right now is all -- we're over the top of the hill. There is no lack of inventions. There isn't even lack of stuff. The only problem is the way it's divided.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
June 17 2012 13:50 GMT
#13
There is no lack because the laws still keep enough people paying for a product that there's a profit to be made making stuff.

The less profit available, the less people want to spend making things. Certain aspects of quality would pretty much have to start dropping off to maintain a profit margin.

Just because you found a rather impressively drug-induced analogy that's utterly irrelevant doesn't change the fact that to some extent the system protects innovation.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
S2 Championship: Playoffs D2
SteadfastSC342
IndyStarCraft 200
BRAT_OK 90
3DClanTV 50
EnkiAlexander 41
IntoTheiNu 16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 342
IndyStarCraft 200
BRAT_OK 90
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 58952
Bisu 1354
Jaedong 1039
Hyuk 770
firebathero 688
Mini 615
BeSt 477
Shuttle 443
Barracks 426
ggaemo 206
[ Show more ]
Last 162
Hyun 152
Movie 150
hero 148
Mind 108
Mong 79
Pusan 77
Leta 76
sSak 70
PianO 58
Free 54
Sea.KH 51
ToSsGirL 42
soO 34
zelot 28
Backho 24
Noble 17
yabsab 13
SilentControl 12
Yoon 11
sas.Sziky 0
Dota 2
Gorgc6318
qojqva2110
Dendi1215
XcaliburYe316
Fuzer 119
syndereN64
Counter-Strike
fl0m1901
zeus682
ScreaM559
oskar91
edward57
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu381
Other Games
B2W.Neo3527
singsing1909
Hui .212
SortOf127
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick832
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hinosc 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota280
Other Games
• WagamamaTV238
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
2h 18m
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
5h 18m
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
5h 18m
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
20h 18m
Soulkey vs BeSt
Snow vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
6 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.