• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:10
CET 05:10
KST 13:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy6ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises0Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool42Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Luxury Moissanite Sparkle Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Soulkey's decision to leave C9 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ JaeDong's form before ASL [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group A ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2714 users

[Ramblings] Gaps in Thinking; Nomenclature

Blogs > Angel_
Post a Reply
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
May 31 2012 19:43 GMT
#1
I guess I want to talk about two different things and the connection between them; or rather, a thing, and it's root cause.

At every level there are lapses in our logic; gaps in our trains of thinking. Pro players fail to identify out-of-the-box and non-standard play because they're so used to 'efficient' play. Casters judge player's actions because of their own lapse in realization that what they see isn't what the player has seen. And as spectator's we try to mimic our pro's without realizing why it works, or how it works, or what it's trying to accomplish, without the necessary information or backing to do it safely to begin with (at all levels). Simply, it's a failure in perspective, and it isn't unique to Starcraft in any way shape or form. However, I want to use it to analyze a specific concept: all-in.

First and foremost I guess the word must be defined. I'll use my own thinking. To be all-in is a situation in which you must, at least, have an end result of your opponent being at your level after you execute it, with the risk of being critically behind if failed. Less technical: An all-in is a place you put yourself in that requires you to put your opponent at your level when you do it, or you'll probably die.

There is a lot of difficulty in understanding the all-in because of it's misuse and misunderstanding. To do an all-in, for example, requires you to be all-in. But you can be all-in without doing an all in, and that's the critical piece a lot of confusion comes from. You will hear a lot of caster's say things like, "Oh he hasn't expanded yet he's obviously doing a 2-base all-in". At the pro level that's probably true because standard 2-base play has sort of died to the longer macro game, and at the top level if someone is doing two-base play, the most efficient effective way of doing it is probably to do a very specific all-in, that MIGHT have some hope of transition out of it.

Which brings up two more issues: 1. The lapse, and 2. If it can be transitioned out of, how is it an all-in?

So we'll address 1 first. The lapse involves a failure to bridge to your own level. I hear, "Oh he isn't taken his third by 15 minutes he's obviously doing an all-in" and I process that as, "Okay if I'm against an opponent and he hasn't expanded by 15 minutes he's doing something wonky." In some circumstances that's definitely true. In others however, your opponent is just committing himself to a strong two base game with a lot of focus on army and is probably going to try to kill you frequently, or mass a two base army and kill you. Then you have to take that leap and say, "well if he's committing to that, he IS all-in", which is true, but it doesn't mean he's doing an all-in, and that's really important to recognize.

2. If we look back at the definition of an all-in, it doesn't actually require the all-inner to win. If you do say...a 1-1-1 all-in against a protoss. You don't have to kill the protoss with your attack. It'd be awesome to. It'd be great to at least totally cripple the shit out of them. But what is actually required is that you either force them into making units while being cost efficient enough with your own that you can tech/expand/whatever really fast and catch up to them, OR you have to bring them down to your level in army/tech/economy. It's part of what makes an all-in really complicated to judge the success of; generally we judge an all-in based on whether or not we clearly win the game with it.

A two-rax all-in is what I'll use as an example (despite the actual definition of "what is a two-rax" being much more difficult, so for clarity, not a two rax pressure with a few marines, but a two-rax, 3 maurader and some marines, thing). If we start off with a two rax...we have no real tech started and are on one base. Let's say it's against another terran. Chances are they're making units anyway unless they're going for some fast mech build or a fast tech (banshee something) thing. So we take in our units and we kill a bunch of scvs and snipe his natural, giving us time to get our expansion half-up. Now, we've killed a couple scvs, and it was early enough that he probably didn't have a very big scv lead anyway, and our natural is almost done and he has to restart his. We are ahead in economy. We may or may not be ahead in gas. Depending on whether or not he has his factory at home and what he was doing he might still be ahead in tech. Our all-in then, probably paid off and put us at least even again. Let's say instead he kept his orbital and had to lift it, but we ran up his ramp, made him pull scvs, and we sniped his factory. We're probably going to be about even in economy, with him probably getting an extra MULE off but having 1-3 less scvs. But! We're definitely even on tech. And you have the advantage of knowing what he was hoping to go for (and possibly the advantage of having forced him into going for something else now that he wasn't planning to do). Our all-in was successful enough that we could transition from it into what we wanted without being behind or effectively dead. And that's not limited to super-early game situations; the same scenario could be created with a blink-all-in, but I'm not going to do it for the sake of over-explaining.

So in short, an all-in puts you all-in, but being all-in does not necessary mean you're doing an all-in, or that what you're seeing is someone doing an all-in.

All just, food for thought, and something to remember in your own games and scouting and thinking, and to notice and note when you're watching high level games and casts.

End.

***
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
May 31 2012 20:13 GMT
#2
Assuming that others see or know the same things you do is a fundamental flaw in human reasoning. Children do this most often, but even adults make that mistake. This is also the basis for empathy - we understand and feel another person's emotions by imagining our own reactions to being put in the same situation.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 01 2012 02:20 GMT
#3
I've had arguments with people before about this.

I'll say, that was an all-in. And they'll say, not it wasn't, if they killed all their scvs with it they could transition. >.> But that definition could be applied to any build and the phrase 'all-in' loses it's meaning.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
June 01 2012 15:35 GMT
#4
All-in for me is when you commit every tech, army and econ for a single push

3 rax = allin

1/1/1 - not allin

This is my opinion as summarized as I could
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft509
PiGStarcraft289
Nina 198
RuFF_SC2 196
mcanning 46
-ZergGirl 24
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5995
ggaemo 92
Noble 33
NaDa 29
Bale 18
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever828
febbydoto42
League of Legends
JimRising 818
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1637
taco 662
Stewie2K636
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox408
Other Games
summit1g10683
C9.Mang0443
Maynarde113
Trikslyr42
UpATreeSC29
deth8
JuggernautJason6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1369
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream89
Other Games
BasetradeTV52
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 58
• Diggity4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1000
• Rush651
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 50m
Afreeca Starleague
5h 50m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-23
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.