This is my running diary / live blog of SK Planet Hybrid Proleague Opening Day.
I'm very excited for this. So much so that I'll be doing a live blog right here, starting at 11pm and going until it's over or until I pass out. I realize it's four straight matches and could run 10 hours but I don't care. I have enough snacks and drinks to get me through a mini-zombie apocalypse.
I'm looking forward to watching Brood War again. I did watch a few games every week but I haven't been able to follow a Proleague closely and see the ebb and flow of the players and teams since 2010. But what I'm most interested in seeing is just how good the elite BW players are at StarCraft 2, and I sincerely hope some of the S-class guys play an SC2 match this time. Give me Stork, Bisu, Flash, Fantasy, Jaedong, Effort, just one or two of them please. Will they be terrible at it? Will the strategies be different? Will we see anything new? Opening night is guaranteed entertainment, and nobody knows what to expect.
Just check back to this blog for updates, which I will be posting throughout the night. Meanwhile, check out the awesome coverage for SC2 and BW fans alike done by the TL writers.
Hybrid Proleague Opening Day Live Blog, for ESPORTS
And now it's over! Learned a lot from these games, the biggest thing is that the P players are just further ahead than the other races. But overall, I'm pretty impressed with the BW pros, even though some were comically bad in terms of understanding and decisions. The mechanics and reflex reactions were stellar, but that was to be expected. In a few months we'll see them truly competing, and by then hopefully we can watch some cross-league matches between these guys and GSL Code A/S players.
10:03 - Too much high tech protoss units, colossus and archons, burn through the MM so fast. Feedback reaction is really fast from this guy, planetary goes down, and it looks like Classic is now in trouble. GG.
09:56 - Classic looking good, secret base and forces the P third to cancel, good play thus far.
09:45 - TvP Classic vs Flying for potentially the last match of the day. I'm still so sad Soulkey lost, he was supposed to be the Zerg hope. Maybe he'll get another chance in the ace match!
09:34 - Soulkey loses, base race with roaches against force field doesn't work! It's like watching ZvP losses from 14 months ago, when Zergs still maxed out on roaches and weren't aggressive with them.
09:18 - FINALLY Soulkey vs Protoss Trap, he's going to roll this fool. We hope. First Protoss loss against Zerg?
09:02 - What is Bogus doing seriously, super late CC float, very bad and risky MM control. Protoss are just playing more solid today. Eventually, storm upgrades and sentry/zealot just rolls over Bogus.
08:49 - SC2 time! Bogus (who looks like a Korean Amare Stoudemire, wow) goes up against Shy, TvP.
08:37 - Free does a cute reaver/elevator and Last isn't ready, the power of proxy buildings strikes in GSL finals and in BW as well.
08:30 - Last vs Free in the third game. Free is known for his dragoon and zealot control, but despite his good micro he makes some really bad decisions (either too conservative or too aggressive at times). Last is known for having some good TvP lately so it should be a fun match.
08:15 - Mini goes 2-gate into 1-base reaver, and somehow wins even without killing anything with his initial zealots, what a fail by Zero.
07:51 - Calm vs Light. Light sneaks in a few vultures, and kills a ridiculous 8+ drones, and the game is over, just like that. No injects means no fast remaking of drones.
07:15 - Protoss finally loses. Firebathero this is what happens when you forsake your BW race, you lose. Karma at its finest. Reality with the TvP win.
06:58 - Sick, Firebathero vs Reality. FBH is now Protoss.
06:57 - Post game interview, translated by MrHoon: "Protoss won all games today thus far, do you think it is skill of the players or the race?" Jangbi: "I don't think we're good enough to say it's the race yet."
06:49 - Iris, like just about every other player who played against Protoss, doesn't understand forcefields, and gets rolled by colossus and storm. Protoss remains undefeated.
06:37 - I wonder if the reason Protoss is doing so well is because the race is the most similar to BW Protoss, just with some added toys like warp-in. Protoss in Proleague haven't lost yet, even though no P has made a colossus yet.
06:34 - Iris vs Jangbi. This is going to be awesome. Iris used to be on CJ before going to the Air Force, and he's known for his aggressive style. Jangbi is one of the "six dragons" of best Protoss players in BW. He's great mechanically, especially in BW PvT.
06:23 - In true Air Force fashion, M18 builds a giant fleet of carriers and void rays with a mothership and Roro is completely helpless against it. Absurd game, should never have gotten to the point where it did. The ling-hydra attack on M18's third was hilariously one-sided.
06:08 - Roro defends early pressure, then gets stopped by Windows update. Bet OGN wishes they used macs... but then KT wouldn't be able to send Flash. Sunglasses... YEAHHHHH.
05:56 - Oh no, Stork was set to play third set Brood War! Oh well, this means we'll see him in SC2 next week. Next up, StarDust, an ACE Protoss (aka M18, ex Samsung) vs Roro (Z). Excited to see a Zerg potentially beat a Protoss.
05:50 - Lessons thus far: Protoss seems easier to learn for the BW pros. Mechanics and reaction times and speed are obviously top notch. Decision making and game knowledge, terrible. There's enough ammunition from these games for both "sides" to argue that either the BW pros have ridiculous potential, or that they are ridiculously overhyped. We'll know the truth of it when there's an event in a few months when top GSL players face these guys. I can't wait.
05:39 - Really fast 5 tank, 4 factory vulture reinforcing push by Turn, Kal attempts to break with reaver, but can't trade forever. Turn's second push breaks through and ends it. This game means one of Stork or Jangbi is going to play SC2, nice.
05:27 - Next up, Kal vs Turn. Kal used to be on STX but has since moved onto the Air Force. He was one of the top Protoss players (kind of second tier though, behind Bisu, Stork, Jangbi, etc) and was known for being super tall. Turn I know nothing about but I have watched him play before, nothing remarkable.
05:16 - Great vs Juni ZvZ, the battle of different hairstyles, the air force short vs crazy ball of gel. As for the game, I missed it because I went out to get a cheese steak from the Mexican deli at 5am. I presume someone made more mutalisks than someone else.
04:50 - Samsung vs ACE next, I want to see Stork, Jangbi, and Firebathero.
04:46 - I really hope the elite BW players don't all switch to Protoss, it seems the BW P's are learning faster and a matchup like ZvP really requires a lot of feel and experience. Now I really want to see Woongjin's Soulkey (Z), supposedly the best BW player yet to switch.
04:39 - Effort gets rolled by sentry stalker immortal attack before he can hit broods. Again, nice macro and mechanics but bad decision making on both the hive and infestor timing and the engagement at the fourth. Oh well, at least the game was much closer from the Zerg side.
04:16 - First Zerg win and CJ decides to send out Effort again, and KT picks their "best player" Motive. The real test is now, we'll see how Effort does against a Korean GM level Protoss.
04:11 - And Effort just rolls through Flash, remaxes instantly a few times, wow. It's hard for me to try to place how good Effort is versus the other players, that looked impressive but I really want to see Effort play MVP or something.
04:06 - High hopes for this game, already looks more polished than the other games, both Flash and Effort.
04:00 - Effort in his prime was second to Jaedong in skills, and actually beat Flash in an OSL Final, so everyone get excited.
03:57 - I have never been more happy to see a KT Terran fail, thank you Barracks for creating this moment. Without your terribleness last game, we may not have seen Flash play SC2 for another few weeks. Now we get to see a rematch of the Korean Air Finals, where Flash rode in on a plane. So hyped, now let's hope the game lives up to it.
03:41 - Some comically bad decision making by both players, they react so fast to stuff they see on the map but they are so bad at everything else. All their resources are so low, but the tactics are so, so bad.
03:31 - Hero vs Barracks. Hero rocking an impressively high popped collar, it's like they went to a club and were like hey dude we like your mean sneer and the way you rock your shirt, would you like to play SC2 for our team? Also, that collective NOOOOOOO is the sound of all fans realizing Flash might not play.
03:16 - Some really nice templar control from Motive, the T tried to do damage midgame but the P was very on the ball with defending and feedbacks, kept his medivac count very low.
02:57 - Apparently Motive is the first GM player in KT? According to Hoon he wasn't even properly trained in BW. And the CJ Terran, I remember it was down to him or Idra to play in proleague and they picked this guy.
02:42 - Thus ends a terrible ZvZ, I suppose his mutas were just more numerous and crazier. Some pretty bad BW games thus far tonight, hopefully the next matches give better showings. SC2 time!
02:38 - I'm trying to imagine watching ZvZ for the first time if you've never seen it. Without a unit counter, you have no idea how many mutas each player has, and the scourge hits aren't really clear either, so it's just this big fight and BOOM someone has more mutas left.
02:25 - Hydra vs... drumroll... Crazy-Hydra. Brood War ZvZ get ready for very, very few drones. This means Flash is going to play SC2, YESSS.
02:11 - Well that was one sided, a good comparison to how terrible the Fantasy vs Jaehoon game was. When you do a build like Leta did (2 factories before CC), you have to do a lot of damage or you're screwed.
02:06 - Late game BW TvP, turtle city and arbiters make an appearance, yes you can make more than one of them.
01:59 - For SC2 fans, I can't stress how hard it is to do this vs mines with dragoons, two mine hits and your units die, and they fire so slow and are so stupid.
01:51 - Leta vs P7GAB, no idea who this Protoss is. Leta is known for his speed and control, he's very good with small group micro, specifically wraiths in TvZ, he's going to be ridiculous with reapers and banshees in SC2. As for the P, I have no idea who he is. The good news is this is one step closer to Effort playing SC2, but I don't have high hopes since BW Zerg seem behind on the SC2 learning curve.
01:37 - Decisive battle has Horang landing two critical storms on reavers but not killing them, many extra scarabs fired. Stats looked super ahead but now Horang is somehow up supply again? Macro matters, Horang takes it GG.
01:18 - Horang vs Stats. Horang is known for being unorthodox and having creative builds, Stats is known for his abnormally large chin, which he got surgery on and now doesn't possess anymore. I used to think it was the source of his power but I guess not.
01:10 - List of players I want to see play SC2 in this next match, in order of how badly I want to see them: Effort, Flash, Leta, Horang, Snow, Skyhigh.
01:07 - CJ vs KT next, Effort vs Flash ZvT would be the best possible matchup we can hope for, but after that Jaedong game I do not have high expectations. That said, CJ players have the practice-beast reputations, and Horang is supposedly really awesome in SC2 so we'll see.
12:53 - That game was just so, so painful to watch, it was clear Jaedong had no idea how to make proper decisions in an SC2 ZvP. Please practice more DONG, don't get discouraged. Listening to fans constantly yelling NOOOO to the trainwreck of burrowed roaches into forcefields was painful, let's just pretend this game never happened.
12:51 - OK before I address the atrocity that was that game, let me concentrate and say that JD's reaction to the 2 warped in zealots was extremely impressive (lol).
12:35 - I have never been more excited for ZvP ever. The DONG better not disappoint. This guy is the best Zerg player ever in BW, please show us something in SC2.
12:33 - Sun for SKT (young rookie) versus Jaedong (Zerg) HELLS YEAAAAAAAAAA
12:29 - Please be Jaedong, even if its ZvZ, I want to see his bane micro. And his creep spread, DONG creep spread please.
12:20 - Terminator is dead, some nice immortal drop play from Best, for some reason that was way more exciting than a normal SC2 PvP haha.
12:11 - After an eternity of wait, this is finally happening omfg.
12:03 - How hilarious would it be if Best never gets warpgate this game? Waxangel said this terminator guy is the best player on Team 8 in SC2 according to Jaedong, so he'll need it...
11:58 - If this is Bisu vs Jaedong in the first ever Proleague SC2 match, I'm going to freak out. DAMN Bisu was going to play in set 3 of Brood War, guess he can still do the SC2 ace if he has to. Holy crap its Best. This guy is the macro beast in BW, is it even possible to outmacro someone in PvP SC2, it's all about openings. I suppose we're about to find out. Best vs "terminator" haha.
11:49 - The moment we've all been waiting for is soon, hopefully Bisu or Best play SC2, my brain is going to explode. If they send out Hyuk, I will cry. Do the right thing SKT coach.
11:48 - Translation, courtesy of MrHoon: Soo says he actually practiced this drone micro and should have gotten two SCVs.
11:45 - Marines vs muta ball is a very thin line, its one of the hardest things to do to properly harass and defend, a lot depends on positioning and Sea got behind with that first engagement in his main... OR mutas imba Blizzard please patch them.
11:41 - Nice block by Sea! Incoming mutas soon, 2-hatch muta is super low eco and aggressive, it's going to blow some SC2 fans minds haha.
11:39 - Soo baller drone holy shit doing work against 14cc, got a kill, face zoom on Sea in response haha.
11:33 - Ah yes, TvZ, Sea vs Soo. Terran vs Zerg in BW was the cadillac of all matchups, it's amazing. I can't wait for this one it's going to be great. Sea is a very solid ace-caliber player (used to be on the now-defunct MBC), but never really won any major championships. Soo is one of many SK Telecom Zergs, usually a laughing stock compared to how good their Protoss (Best, Bisu) and Terran (Fantasy) players are.
11:32 - Don't worry SC2 fans, there are units other than dragoons and reavers, we just didn't get to see them because Jaehoon sucks too much.
11:29 - My interpretation of Fantasy's answer in his interview: "so in StarCraft 2 vultures have splash damage? Terrans lose??"
11:23 - Does Jaehoon have to take off his "UNDFETD" jacket now?
11:20 - Wow that's a lot of factories. Yes, Fantasy has to click on each of them individually. WOW Jaehoon loses two reavers and a shuttle to mines, that's the SC2 equivalent of having 3 colossus sniped. And the kiss of death, epic double face-zoom onto Jaehoon. GG.
11:17 - Jaehoon manages to lose like 20 probes to six vultures, is beginning to reaver harass. That big worm like thing is a reaver, it shoots large, light blue roulette balls, sometimes they just don't do damage. He is failing pretty hard right now. I'd say Jaehoon is going to die to Fantasy's first push given how the reaver did no damage and the early vultures did a lot.
11:14 - OK for those SC2 fans not familiar, there's this unit called the dragoon, its like a stalker except it can't blink and it's ai is literally designed to be stupid. There's also this unit called the vulture that can lay down 3 mini nukes, it's seriously imbalanced. Tanks kill the dragoons, vultures and mines kill the zealots, or that's what it's supposed to do if things go according to plan for the Terran. Fantasy, the T player, is known for his vulture micro and harassment. As I type that, he sneaks a few in.
11:09 - Daaamn this intro. An architect tracing a stylized giant P, absolutely nothing to do with computer games. Almost as nonsensical as the ninja vs ninja one in Shinhan 3.
11:08 - First match is Fantasy for SK Telecom and Jaehoon for Team 8. For those not familiar with BW, SK Telecom is like the Yankees. They buy everyone and win everything. They won the last proleague. Fantasy is super skilled, he has all the creativity of Boxer, the micro of Bisu, but absolutely zero of their charisma or good looks. He's literally the most awkward kid ever. Jaehoon, well he's Jaehoon, prone to failing and not doing things well.
11:00 PM EDT - It's starting, it looks exactly the same as regular proleague right now. The screamo, the dark studio and flashing lights, it's all coming back to me. Ahh, the soothing excited voice of korean commetators, how I've missed you. I wish I knew what he was saying, he is so excitable. He could cast me doing the dishes and make it epic.
I'm really interested to see the form of the BW pros. I'm in a similar situation, not watching BW very much anymore just the occasional game and semi-finals or finals. Looking forward to the reports.
Expect not much from the BW matches as they will be played half-heartedly, expect even less from SC2 as the players probably don't know anything at high level yet.
Odds are that it will be bad all along. Hope I'm wrong, but I probably I'm not.
On May 20 2012 10:52 fabiano wrote: Expect not much from the BW matches as they will be played half-heartedly, expect even less from SC2 as the players probably don't know anything at high level yet.
Odds are that it will be bad all along. Hope I'm wrong, but I probably I'm not.
Why would you expect the BW games to be played half-heartedly?
On May 20 2012 10:52 fabiano wrote: Expect not much from the BW matches as they will be played half-heartedly, expect even less from SC2 as the players probably don't know anything at high level yet.
Odds are that it will be bad all along. Hope I'm wrong, but I probably I'm not.
Why would you expect the BW games to be played half-heartedly?
Because there is no BW next season, teams will most likely put effort into learning SC2, unfortunately...
This really sucks, you've no idea of how much it sucks man
On May 20 2012 10:52 fabiano wrote: Expect not much from the BW matches as they will be played half-heartedly, expect even less from SC2 as the players probably don't know anything at high level yet.
Odds are that it will be bad all along. Hope I'm wrong, but I probably I'm not.
Why would you expect the BW games to be played half-heartedly?
Because there is no BW next season, teams will most likely put effort into learning SC2, unfortunately...
This really sucks, you've no idea of how much it sucks man
Or it's their last shot at accomplishing something in BW. If the players wanted to put more effort into learning SC2, then they would have left BW long ago. I bet their main focus will be still BW with a "have to play" mentality of SC2.
On May 20 2012 10:52 fabiano wrote: Expect not much from the BW matches as they will be played half-heartedly, expect even less from SC2 as the players probably don't know anything at high level yet.
Odds are that it will be bad all along. Hope I'm wrong, but I probably I'm not.
Why would you expect the BW games to be played half-heartedly?
Because there is no BW next season, teams will most likely put effort into learning SC2, unfortunately...
This really sucks, you've no idea of how much it sucks man
I would believe that they would play their heart out on BW, especially since a team can get a 2-0 lead if they take the BW matches and we see that a lot of players do like BW still. SC2 will just be a random factor (except probably Soulkey) that most of us probably will not even know. Hopefully it goes well.
Will we stop with the elephant in the room article? It's ridiculous to expect players to play good at a new game for them within a month or 2 total practice, along with training for brood war still. Brood war players need more time to practice and catch up with the world. The game with barracks demonstrates this, the decisions made were pretty poor on his end. The game before that one shows promise, but still I foresee more games like the barracks game. I really wish they would keep one or the other so we would see the best games possible. I do hope we see improvement soon. Appreciate the opinions Hot_Bid.
On May 20 2012 16:54 pinball777 wrote: Will we stop with the elephant in the room article? It's ridiculous to expect players to play good at a new game for them within a month or 2 total practice, along with training for brood war still. Brood war players need more time to practice and catch up with the world. The game with barracks demonstrates this, the decisions made were pretty poor on his end. The game before that one shows promise, but still I foresee more games like the barracks game. I really wish they would keep one or the other so we would see the best games possible. I do hope we see improvement soon. Appreciate the opinions Hot_Bid.
On May 20 2012 16:54 pinball777 wrote: Will we stop with the elephant in the room article? It's ridiculous to expect players to play good at a new game for them within a month or 2 total practice, along with training for brood war still. Brood war players need more time to practice and catch up with the world. The game with barracks demonstrates this, the decisions made were pretty poor on his end. The game before that one shows promise, but still I foresee more games like the barracks game. I really wish they would keep one or the other so we would see the best games possible. I do hope we see improvement soon. Appreciate the opinions Hot_Bid.
which is why I would agree with you that they aren't close to the level of GSL players yet and will probably take up to a year for them to catch up. Which is why I mention the elephant because that article was stupid, utter trash and almost everyone agreed with it, they really thought BW players would be godlike. But just look at Julyzerg, or ForGG, proven BW players who have done well in GSL but nothing like what was expected like the article claimed. Sure, they will eventually get there, but with this PL format and OSL they STILL need to practice BW so it will take even longer. I for one can't wait for them to be amazing at this game, but it's funny to me how seriously everyone took that article.
On May 20 2012 16:54 pinball777 wrote: Will we stop with the elephant in the room article? It's ridiculous to expect players to play good at a new game for them within a month or 2 total practice, along with training for brood war still. Brood war players need more time to practice and catch up with the world. The game with barracks demonstrates this, the decisions made were pretty poor on his end. The game before that one shows promise, but still I foresee more games like the barracks game. I really wish they would keep one or the other so we would see the best games possible. I do hope we see improvement soon. Appreciate the opinions Hot_Bid.
which is why I would agree with you that they aren't close to the level of GSL players yet and will probably take up to a year for them to catch up. Which is why I mention the elephant because that article was stupid, utter trash and almost everyone agreed with it, they really thought BW players would be godlike. But just look at Julyzerg, or ForGG, proven BW players who have done well in GSL but nothing like what was expected like the article claimed. Sure, they will eventually get there, but with this PL format and OSL they STILL need to practice BW so it will take even longer. I for one can't wait for them to be amazing at this game, but it's funny to me how seriously everyone took that article.
On May 20 2012 10:45 Hot_Bid wrote: 06:37 - I wonder if the reason Protoss is doing so well is because the race is the most similar to BW Protoss, just with some added toys like warp-in. Protoss in Proleague haven't lost yet, even though no P has made a colossus yet.
Wasn't one of the protoss wins from a guy who switched races? Firebathero coming up now to see if protoss can go 2-0 for race switchers. If that happens, I'd start to rethink the hypothesis and come up with another reason why protoss is doing so well in proleague.
On May 20 2012 21:06 Gummy wrote: Lol. This is just silly, imo. Getting these amazing top-notch BW players to play SC2 so poorly (given how good they are at BW) is hilarious.
On May 21 2012 01:02 nttea wrote: Worst Jaedong game of my life
The thing is, imo Jaedong made one mistake which was forgetting about forcefields. If forcefields didn't exist, sacrificing his natural and going for the counter would've been the proper decision. As it was though, a small group of sentries contained his army in his main and took out his third. In BW, this would never happen. Once he figures stuff out in SC2 more, he'll do fine.
On May 21 2012 01:02 nttea wrote: Worst Jaedong game of my life
The thing is, imo Jaedong made one mistake which was forgetting about forcefields. If forcefields didn't exist, sacrificing his natural and going for the counter would've been the proper decision. As it was though, a small group of sentries contained his army in his main and took out his third. In BW, this would never happen. Once he figures stuff out in SC2 more, he'll do fine.
forgetting about forcefields in sc2 is pretty indefensible though, i mean any random master player could have seen that coming.
On May 21 2012 01:02 nttea wrote: Worst Jaedong game of my life
The thing is, imo Jaedong made one mistake which was forgetting about forcefields. If forcefields didn't exist, sacrificing his natural and going for the counter would've been the proper decision. As it was though, a small group of sentries contained his army in his main and took out his third. In BW, this would never happen. Once he figures stuff out in SC2 more, he'll do fine.
forgetting about forcefields in sc2 is pretty indefensible though, i mean any random master player could have seen that coming.
Not only master... If you get in this position just attack P army on open space and kill it... Don't know JD was off but his macro looks not bad the build (stephano style) looked kind of right if it wasn't for the wrong decisions where to attack and when. I liked this game more than the one of Soulkey who had fewer drones and some sort of strange gas timings on a bigger map with supperior fighting opportunieties for Toss he choose to be aggressive but never accomplished anything then else then killing like 3 sentries. Flash's game hurts me. It was sad that poor guy. In GSL you would just blueflame push the shit out of the Zerg instead of macro up on Antiga o0. But they were not bad just in experienced this might change during this season or so.
I really enjoyed the Hotbid Sayle dual-cast later on. It was a really interesting day to see BW Pros play both games (also strange). I hope Hotbid will fallow this development further after such a day I have to listen to some real specialists about the games.
Firebathero plays Protoss in SC2 now? The same guy that wished Protoss were removed in BW so he only had to play TvT and TvZ? I guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
On May 21 2012 08:03 ShadowDrgn wrote: Firebathero plays Protoss in SC2 now? The same guy that wished Protoss were removed in BW so he only had to play TvT and TvZ? I guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
It was so weird watching SC2 in Proleague. It'll probably be a while before I get used to this. Looks like Jaedong just needs some more practice and he'll be fine.
It was skeptical about that, and finally I enjoy that mixed format PL. And that's with overall mediocre games, when the quality will rise that'll be very good :-)
I thought toss had stuff a bit more worked out then the other races recently, nice to see it proven by a fair and thorough test. Pity toss is not winning any tournaments though :/