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If you haven't been living under a rock, you would probably be aware of the current changes taking place in the StarCraft Universe.
One hot-button issue is the whole StarCraft Brood War vs. StarCraft 2 debate. Does SC:BW deserve the cards that it has been dealt with? Do the fans deserve such a fate? Is SC2 easier than SC:BW and thus an inferior game?
Let's not be hasty when answering such questions. Having this oldfags versus newfags absurdity plaguing these forums is detrimental to the quality of this site. SC2 zealots have to be respectful of the pain BW fans are going through now. They feel as if a major part of their lives have been ripped out, snatched away from them. Their gods are leaving them, their childhood is being torn apart. It is important for SC2 fans to not trivialize this loss. However, BW zealots should not bash on SC2 so hard. Sure you can talk about how bad of a game it is, how much of a disaster it is at the moment and whatnot, but you should not talk about it as if it were a cancer or something that should have never been created.
It is irrational to say that SC2 will never succeed because it's such an easy game compared to BW as well. Saying that SC2 is easy at this time is probably similar to how Day[9] thought SC1 was easy when all he did was play on island maps and made Mutalisks to surprise his opponents or where he just 9 pooled all the time. You are comparing the depth of a barely developed, incomplete game to a well established, well explored game.
![[image loading]](http://bbs.gamechosun.co.kr/wlwl_upload/dataroom/star2/2012/05/451561_1336713581.jpg) Thanks GTR
Holy shit right? The Ultimate Weapon, God of StarCraft, playing SC2. We already have a FPVOD of him playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3ETvFlEPcg
Things are looking pretty good, given the supposed amount of time that he has been practicing. He obviously isn't playing at the skill level of his BW skill, but still, it's fantastic. Not forgetting that he supposedly beat KawaiiRice recently as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBthYyfGbZk&feature=relmfu
What we should do is to not be too nitpicky about his play. Sure, there are a ton of things that he can improve on, but he is displaying a remarkable grasp of the game. Familiarising himself with the meta game (at a professional level, no less) and getting his mechanics down pat in a few weeks is fairly incredible. There really isn't much that can be said about him until the next we see his official SC2 debut in the Proleague.
  
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Oh, does APM and attention skill simply evaporate when you switch from sc1 to sc2? I fail to see how automining and multibuilding select somehow makes a PvP game easier. It would be easier if your opponent didn't also get the same advantage; but they do get the same advantage, don't they?
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On May 13 2012 21:14 Sacrieur wrote:
Oh, does APM and attention skill simply evaporate when you switch from sc1 to sc2? I fail to see how automining and multibuilding select somehow makes a PvP game easier. It would be easier if your opponent didn't also get the same advantage; but they do get the same advantage, don't they?
So, what point are you trying to make?
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I'm commenting on whether the game is superior or inferior; it's neither. It's like saying 3D chess is inferior to regular chess.
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I don't think that any of the BW pros will realistically dominate the SC2 scene. It's a different game. There is much to learn.
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On May 13 2012 21:24 Jinsho wrote:
I don't think that any of the BW pros will realistically dominate the SC2 scene. It's a different game. There is much to learn.
Yeah people like July, NaDa, or BoxeR are clear examples of this. I have a feeling that it might be different though. Who knows? We'll just have to see.
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On May 13 2012 21:26 Azera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 21:24 Jinsho wrote:
I don't think that any of the BW pros will realistically dominate the SC2 scene. It's a different game. There is much to learn. Yeah people like July, NaDa, or BoxeR are clear examples of this. I have a feeling that it might be different though. Who knows? We'll just have to see.
No they are not expamples of this. If you compare it to tennis, if becker and federer now switched over to let's say squash, would you seriously compare them and expect becker to do as well as federer? No! The ones you mentioned are well past their primes, and it is likely that they aren't training 12-14hours a day. Flash on the other hand is in top shape for the last years and will be for the next 4-6 years. His dedication can simply not be compared by july or nada.
You are right, we will see. But Flash will definetly dominate, under the condition that he actually plays the game.
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On May 13 2012 21:26 Azera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 21:24 Jinsho wrote:
I don't think that any of the BW pros will realistically dominate the SC2 scene. It's a different game. There is much to learn. Yeah people like July, NaDa, or BoxeR are clear examples of this. I have a feeling that it might be different though. Who knows? We'll just have to see.
I'm probably the 10,000 person to say this, but Nada July and Boxer were "washed up" nearing their retirement in BW. They could barely win a game in proleague except maybe for Nada, who managed a 50% win rate or something like that. And Flash, Bisu Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy etc are on a totally different league compared to the 3 players in their prime.
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Yeah I guess it is true that they are "washed up" legends. But we will still have to see though, I don't think we can accurately predict this.
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You sure like to tell people what to do. I like the cancer analogy btw, I think it's a pretty accurate one. I know I shouldn't, but I've always been the rebel.
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On May 13 2012 21:46 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 21:26 Azera wrote:On May 13 2012 21:24 Jinsho wrote:
I don't think that any of the BW pros will realistically dominate the SC2 scene. It's a different game. There is much to learn. Yeah people like July, NaDa, or BoxeR are clear examples of this. I have a feeling that it might be different though. Who knows? We'll just have to see. I'm probably the 10,000 person to say this, but Nada July and Boxer were "washed up" nearing their retirement in BW. They could barely win a game in proleague except maybe for Nada, who managed a 50% win rate or something like that. And Flash, Bisu Jaedong, Stork, Fantasy etc are on a totally different league compared to the 3 players in their prime.
As a side note, I was skimming through some old LRs just yesterday, and NaDa beating HoeJJa of all people meant auto recommendation and spam of how people's life were now complete. And he was indeed the only one able to win a PL game at the time^^
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Since apparently many of you only know Flash, these are the guys to look for too:
Bisu
Jaedong
Stork
Hoejja
Fantasy
Jangbi
Action
Mini
Baby
Last
Sea
Skyhigh
firebathero
How many of those will rather switch than retire, I don't know. Jaedong feels like wants to retire.
Pros who switched before the scene merge are not example of how will top tier BW players do in SC2, stop doing that comparison, they all were way past they prime. Even so, afaik even so SC2 is dominated by ex BW pros, which tells something, or maybe nothing.
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On May 13 2012 21:22 Sacrieur wrote:
I'm commenting on whether the game is superior or inferior; it's neither. It's like saying 3D chess is inferior to regular chess.
That's an awful analogy, since 3D chess is not something that people play at a seriously competitive level. I agree with what you're saying, but you probably should have used chess and go.
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I think some lesser known players from BW can do really well. Especially the ones who aren't in OSL and don't get many proleague apperances, they have more time to practice SC2.
Also Fabiano, you mention all of these names and no Zero or Soulkey? And you don't know how Jaedong feels, are you basing your information off 1 vague tweet?
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Sorry, forgot zero, soulkey and leta yea.
Yes, based on 1 vague tweet.
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The more important thing BW players will bring to SC2 is there work ethic. They already know and have gone through what it takes to be the best.
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The funny thing I have been reading is that not all BW pros are instantly hitting the high spots. Some may be hittin it lower then climbing up. BW Zergs especially are having trouble.
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On May 13 2012 21:14 Sacrieur wrote:
Oh, does APM and attention skill simply evaporate when you switch from sc1 to sc2? I fail to see how automining and multibuilding select somehow makes a PvP game easier. It would be easier if your opponent didn't also get the same advantage; but they do get the same advantage, don't they?
You've confused the difficulty of winning (relative to opponent) and the difficulty of playing (based on the game itself).
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Im guessing within a few months, the top 10 BW scene is the top 10 in SC2. MC, Nestea etc were mediocre BW players at best compared to these guys and they are doing more then well. They float money in long games and big engagements, their builds are not accurate by the second either.
Only thing that is against flash in SC2 is that his ability to cut corners is to me, as a BW noob, what made him so great. He cut corners and defended bullshit and stomped people. This isn't quite as possible in SC2 as allins are sooo strong. And then there's stupid shit like forcefields and crap.
But looking at his TvT FPV there, hes making marines and his minerals are like constantly sub 500. Not many current SC2 progamers that accomplishes this, especially not foreign ones.
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On May 13 2012 23:27 fabiano wrote:
Since apparently many of you only know Flash, these are the guys to look for too:
Bisu
Jaedong
Stork
Hoejja
Fantasy
Jangbi
Action
Mini
Baby
Last
Sea
Skyhigh
firebathero
How many of those will rather switch than retire, I don't know. Jaedong feels like wants to retire.
Pros who switched before the scene merge are not example of how will top tier BW players do in SC2, stop doing that comparison, they all were way past they prime. Even so, afaik even so SC2 is dominated by ex BW pros, which tells something, or maybe nothing.
o.O
How can you NOT include Neo.G_Soulkey? Not only is he an absolute baller  , you can make a very compelling case that he is currently THE best zerg in BW and arguably one of the top 3-5 players in the game right now.
Need Stats too, definitely one of the best protoss in the scene with the exceptions of Bisu and Stork.
EffOrt, Hydra, Best, Light are also all players that should be included. They have all been, or are, very near the top of their race or in the case if light good in one MU and insane in another.
Also a little curious about Hoejja...he has okay ZvP but that's about it.
Horang2 is another notable that probably should be on this list. He used to be pretty allin/aggressive toss but he has become more diverse and really had a pretty consistent season. He also has the most beautiful building placement ever.
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I hope Flash dominate SC2 scene like BW scene! Really want to see him play big tournaments! 
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On May 14 2012 05:23 og8456 wrote:I hope Flash dominate SC2 scene like BW scene! Really want to see him play big tournaments!
I hope not, because it was not very funny to see Flash and Fingerboom win everything in the past years.
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How does he already know intricate things such as how many gasses to get and how much production of off two bases if he has only been playing for a couple weeks and has not watched any significant amount of replays as he claims?
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On May 14 2012 05:43 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 05:23 og8456 wrote:I hope Flash dominate SC2 scene like BW scene! Really want to see him play big tournaments! I hope not, because it was not very funny to see Flash and Fingerboom win everything in the past years.
Well... You are right... T.T but it would still be fun to see Flash in the SC2 scene! 
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On May 14 2012 05:55 mrRoflpwn wrote:
How does he already know intricate things such as how many gasses to get and how much production of off two bases if he has only been playing for a couple weeks and has not watched any significant amount of replays as he claims?
He's FlaSh. He just knows these things.
In all honesty I think it's just how good he is at paying attention to things. He really loves the strategic parts of the game and thinks about it constantly (talked about this in an interview a year or so back) so if little things or off at certain points he quickly realizes it isn't working out and then adapts. If he is ending up 50 gas short of what he wants he will realize that he needs to take gas maybe 10-15s sooner.
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On May 14 2012 15:21 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 05:55 mrRoflpwn wrote:
How does he already know intricate things such as how many gasses to get and how much production of off two bases if he has only been playing for a couple weeks and has not watched any significant amount of replays as he claims? He's FlaSh. He just knows these things. In all honesty I think it's just how good he is at paying attention to things. He really loves the strategic parts of the game and thinks about it constantly (talked about this in an interview a year or so back) so if little things or off at certain points he quickly realizes it isn't working out and then adapts. If he is ending up 50 gas short of what he wants he will realize that he needs to take gas maybe 10-15s sooner.
Pretty much this. Flash's macro has always been top notch. A player like flaSh would definitely figure out stuff like gas timings and build orders relatively quickly, coz to him, it's mere intuition. He also has this sick work ethic that he puts into any game.
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But if Flash were to 1v1 MarineKing or any of the other top tier Terrans at the moment, who would win? I would say the current SC2 Pros.
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Yes of course, easily, thanks god.
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EPT
