• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:53
CET 07:53
KST 15:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool39Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4294 users

Build Tweaking

Blogs > CPTBadAss
Post a Reply
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
May 08 2012 02:52 GMT
#1
Lately in TvZ, I’ve watched Terrans open with a reactor hellion expand. When the hellions force zerglings, banelings and/or roaches to be made, Terran makes banshees to follow up the hellion pressure. This harass allows the Terran to heavily punish the lack of anti-air. When the pressure ends, Terran switches into marine/tank or mech. But as I was idly watching a TvZ on stream one day, I came up with a thought: Why stop making hellions and banshees? What if I could integrate the units into a bio-mech unit composition? I like switching into a marine-tank composition sprinkled with a few marauders to soak up baneling hits. However, I wondered if I could make a hellion/banshee/marine/maurader/medivac composition work. I also decided I’d add in Thors if the game went long enough. Curious, I set out to try creating this unit composition on ladder.

The problem is that I’ve never created a build from my own ideas before. I have been concentrating on “standard” Terran builds and trying to multitask more efficiently (i.e making units at home while I push out). I’m not sure how to improve and tweak the build as I move forward. I do know that I like the build and unit composition; it’s different and I really enjoy it. Hellions with blue flame upgrades roast the damned banelings and zerlings, leaving the bio ball to deal damage. Also I become super mobile which allows me to attack in multiple places. I also feel like because it is so different, people aren’t sure how to react to it.

However, I’ve run into a few issues. I’m not exactly sure when my buildings should be made. I don’t know how many factories and raxes that I can support per the number of bases I have. While I enjoy the extremely heavy harass I’m allowed to execute, I never know how far I can push. Often I lose the advantage I had because I get greedy. I also feel unsure how to transition when faced with mass infestors or mutas. Against infestors, I tried ghosts and using hellion or marauder hit squads. But I didn’t feel 100% that those were the most comfortable solutions. If I didn’t split my army or EMP properly, I just melted. Against mutas, I feel like my pressure throws the standard timing on mutas so I never know when to switch into marine/thor/turret production.

My ultimate point is that I have a simple question: How do you tweak a build you’re working on? Do you grind it out on ladder, do you practice it against a computer, do you use build order testers? With builds that I’m more familiar with such as reactor expand into marine/tank or marauder/hellion into MMM, I just smoothed out the builds against a computer then executed on ladder. With a build that I created and I’m trying to refine, I don’t have a system.

Side Note: I know this could easily be tweaked into a post that could fit into the strategy section but I don’t feel like I’ve played the build enough to have a clear issue to solve. I also wanted to see how much I could tweak the build on my own before asking for help. It’s fun creating my own style.


I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
May 08 2012 03:24 GMT
#2
On May 08 2012 11:52 CPTBadAss wrote:
I don’t know how many factories and raxes that I can support per the number of bases I have.


http://sc2calc.org/unit_production/terran.php

That's one problem solved at least.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
TheRealDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States213 Posts
May 08 2012 03:40 GMT
#3
Personally, I'm huge on math so I just figure out what I can afford. I might have some useful information for you. This is directly related to gas timings.

Gas Refineries Taken / Gas Mined / Time when gas benchmark was obtained
1 gas / 100 gas / 50 seconds
750 gas / 6 minutes 27 seconds

2 gas / 100 gas / 26 seconds
750 gas / 3 minutes 10 seconds

3 gas / 100 gas / 19 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 12 seconds

4 gas / 100 gas / 15 seconds
750 gas / 1 minute 40 seconds

'Staggered'
3 gas / 100 gas / 40 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 41 seconds

'Staggered'
4 gas / 100 gas / 40 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 25 seconds

'Staggered' is the point where you immediately throw down a refinery after one has completed. The benefit to this is that you are producing 2 scvs before you have to put scvs into the completed refinery. Gas is what really determines a build you want to do. I chose 750 gas because that covers basically all the initial infrastructure costs and neccessary upgrades. (Stim, Shields, Factory, Siege, Starport, addons, and either +1 or a few medivacs/tanks before your gas income becomes steady)
"They claim that we violent. We named after Tyrants. This revolution won't be televised we keep it silent."
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
May 08 2012 04:59 GMT
#4
For me I grind it out and save all the losing replays and see what the build is weak against. If you can transform frustrating losses into learning experiences it makes your builds a hell of a lot better. Also it's important to learn to not get too attached to a build. I've been using a build for almost a year now that I made and have been adjusting, and I might be ready to make some huge changes to it (aka scrap it) because the timings are weak to the metagame and the opponents macro timings.

When it comes to upgrade timings, reverse engineering the gas timings are usually what I do. as for compositional builds I think the best way is to play a ton of games with it.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4538
ggaemo 51
ZergMaN 28
NotJumperer 26
ToSsGirL 25
Bale 22
Icarus 11
ForGG 5
League of Legends
JimRising 723
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K525
Other Games
Mew2King47
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick550
BasetradeTV96
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream83
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 95
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1471
• HappyZerGling85
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 7m
Afreeca Starleague
3h 7m
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
5h 7m
Monday Night Weeklies
10h 7m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Platinum Heroes Events
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.