• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:58
CEST 00:58
KST 07:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)71ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8670 users

Build Tweaking

Blogs > CPTBadAss
Post a Reply
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
May 08 2012 02:52 GMT
#1
Lately in TvZ, I’ve watched Terrans open with a reactor hellion expand. When the hellions force zerglings, banelings and/or roaches to be made, Terran makes banshees to follow up the hellion pressure. This harass allows the Terran to heavily punish the lack of anti-air. When the pressure ends, Terran switches into marine/tank or mech. But as I was idly watching a TvZ on stream one day, I came up with a thought: Why stop making hellions and banshees? What if I could integrate the units into a bio-mech unit composition? I like switching into a marine-tank composition sprinkled with a few marauders to soak up baneling hits. However, I wondered if I could make a hellion/banshee/marine/maurader/medivac composition work. I also decided I’d add in Thors if the game went long enough. Curious, I set out to try creating this unit composition on ladder.

The problem is that I’ve never created a build from my own ideas before. I have been concentrating on “standard” Terran builds and trying to multitask more efficiently (i.e making units at home while I push out). I’m not sure how to improve and tweak the build as I move forward. I do know that I like the build and unit composition; it’s different and I really enjoy it. Hellions with blue flame upgrades roast the damned banelings and zerlings, leaving the bio ball to deal damage. Also I become super mobile which allows me to attack in multiple places. I also feel like because it is so different, people aren’t sure how to react to it.

However, I’ve run into a few issues. I’m not exactly sure when my buildings should be made. I don’t know how many factories and raxes that I can support per the number of bases I have. While I enjoy the extremely heavy harass I’m allowed to execute, I never know how far I can push. Often I lose the advantage I had because I get greedy. I also feel unsure how to transition when faced with mass infestors or mutas. Against infestors, I tried ghosts and using hellion or marauder hit squads. But I didn’t feel 100% that those were the most comfortable solutions. If I didn’t split my army or EMP properly, I just melted. Against mutas, I feel like my pressure throws the standard timing on mutas so I never know when to switch into marine/thor/turret production.

My ultimate point is that I have a simple question: How do you tweak a build you’re working on? Do you grind it out on ladder, do you practice it against a computer, do you use build order testers? With builds that I’m more familiar with such as reactor expand into marine/tank or marauder/hellion into MMM, I just smoothed out the builds against a computer then executed on ladder. With a build that I created and I’m trying to refine, I don’t have a system.

Side Note: I know this could easily be tweaked into a post that could fit into the strategy section but I don’t feel like I’ve played the build enough to have a clear issue to solve. I also wanted to see how much I could tweak the build on my own before asking for help. It’s fun creating my own style.


I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
May 08 2012 03:24 GMT
#2
On May 08 2012 11:52 CPTBadAss wrote:
I don’t know how many factories and raxes that I can support per the number of bases I have.


http://sc2calc.org/unit_production/terran.php

That's one problem solved at least.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
TheRealDudeMan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States213 Posts
May 08 2012 03:40 GMT
#3
Personally, I'm huge on math so I just figure out what I can afford. I might have some useful information for you. This is directly related to gas timings.

Gas Refineries Taken / Gas Mined / Time when gas benchmark was obtained
1 gas / 100 gas / 50 seconds
750 gas / 6 minutes 27 seconds

2 gas / 100 gas / 26 seconds
750 gas / 3 minutes 10 seconds

3 gas / 100 gas / 19 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 12 seconds

4 gas / 100 gas / 15 seconds
750 gas / 1 minute 40 seconds

'Staggered'
3 gas / 100 gas / 40 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 41 seconds

'Staggered'
4 gas / 100 gas / 40 seconds
750 gas / 2 minutes 25 seconds

'Staggered' is the point where you immediately throw down a refinery after one has completed. The benefit to this is that you are producing 2 scvs before you have to put scvs into the completed refinery. Gas is what really determines a build you want to do. I chose 750 gas because that covers basically all the initial infrastructure costs and neccessary upgrades. (Stim, Shields, Factory, Siege, Starport, addons, and either +1 or a few medivacs/tanks before your gas income becomes steady)
"They claim that we violent. We named after Tyrants. This revolution won't be televised we keep it silent."
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
May 08 2012 04:59 GMT
#4
For me I grind it out and save all the losing replays and see what the build is weak against. If you can transform frustrating losses into learning experiences it makes your builds a hell of a lot better. Also it's important to learn to not get too attached to a build. I've been using a build for almost a year now that I made and have been adjusting, and I might be ready to make some huge changes to it (aka scrap it) because the timings are weak to the metagame and the opponents macro timings.

When it comes to upgrade timings, reverse engineering the gas timings are usually what I do. as for compositional builds I think the best way is to play a ton of games with it.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 699
ViBE168
CosmosSc2 40
PiGStarcraft32
NeuroSwarm 14
StarCraft: Brood War
MaD[AoV]31
Purpose 8
League of Legends
JimRising 598
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe61
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3560
Other Games
summit1g16842
FrodaN2736
shahzam583
ZombieGrub174
KnowMe146
Nina39
UpATreeSC34
PPMD24
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1860
Other Games
gamesdonequick12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 78
• davetesta14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur269
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
6h 3m
Maestros of the Game
13h 33m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
15h 3m
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 6h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 15h
Online Event
1d 16h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.