• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:54
CEST 19:54
KST 02:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? BGE Stara Zagora to be held again in June 2025 Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Yamato Cup Series
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Etiquete rules in Asl? screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5403 users

My Random Win-Rates: Part 1

Blogs > Paincarnate
Post a Reply
Paincarnate
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
115 Posts
May 04 2012 04:38 GMT
#1
Intro:

First of all, I’m in diamond, and I play random.

+ Show Spoiler +
I rarely ever cheese, since I find macroing as each race quite an engaging challenge to help me improve as a player. It also helps a lot to be aware of how a matchup feels from the opposite perspective. And of course, it’s fun to build nothing but drones until 60 food, or to just spam marines like there’s no tomorrow, or steamroll people with Colossus.


So, to satisfy my own curiosity (and ego), I decided to start recording my win/lose rate by race.

+ Show Spoiler +
I tried sc2gears, but I can’t get it to display stats for random. Also, in Excel, I can make it pretty (all those presentation skills from high school put to good use).


Before going any further, a couple of things to note: this is a record of my own personal statistics, and by no means reflects balance in any way, shape or form. All it means is how good I personally am with each individual race. It bears mentioning that my opponents may not be playing their best – for instance, forge expanding against random is ideal against Zerg (and arguably Terran), but is just asking to get 4-gated if I happen to spawn Protoss. In addition, Protoss is my strongest race, the one that I played most when I first began this game, and the one I’m most comfortable with, so naturally, on an off-day, I’ll ladder with Protoss instead of random. This is the reason for the higher proportion of Protoss games played.

Now that that’s out of the way, let’s take a look:

[image loading]

Zerg:
+ Show Spoiler +
The first thing to strike me was my extremely low winrate as Zerg. 15 games are enough to have a general idea of how things are going, and the answer here is clearly not well. No wins against Terran, a single win against Protoss. I did realize, upon watching my replays, that I wasn’t adding a 4th macro hatch after taking a 3rd base, which would lead to my money creeping up to 2k, but with me unable to spend it, despite nailing all my larva injects.

In ZvT, I was having trouble with large amounts of marines in the mid/late-game, whether they came with tanks, or whether they were dropped in 3 different places at once.

For ZvP, I came across the problem I’m sure all Zergs have experienced – the Protoss “deathball” push, which always seems to hit right before you can get your broodlords up.

I also distinctly recall losing a lot more ZvZ’s than were shown, but they got cleared out of my match history, so it actually looks like my best Zerg match-up – an unfortunate side-effect of statistics. In any case, it’s clear that Zerg is my weakest race, and I’m not in any position to say much more until I fix up my Zerg a bit first.


Terran:
+ Show Spoiler +
This is where things start to get a bit more interesting. I know for certain that I am most confident with Protoss, but I actually have a higher winrate as Terran. It’s obviously due to an insufficiently large sample size, but on top of that, Terran “feels” easier. Now, I’m not saying Terran is over-powered or imbalanced – I’m just saying that I have an easier time getting to grips with the human race than with the Swarm (I’ve played too much Protoss to comment). Maybe it’s because of the campaign, maybe it’s just that the flexibility of the Terran race, coupled with their “standard” macro mechanics (ie. compared to other RTS games), makes them more straightforward to play.

Certainly, the TvT mirror feels this way. Where PvP and ZvZ is vicious, often come down to a single misplaced forcefield or well-placed baneling, TvT is much more forgiving. So much, in fact, that it feels like a normal match-up instead of a mirror (if anything, I treat TvT as one would TvZ). Going pure bio is somewhat risky, but both bionic (MMM + tanks) and pure mech allow for the player to rely on his skill alone, rather than a combination his skill and an intimate understanding of the TvT match-up. The lethality of TvT just seems tame compared to the knife’s edge that is PvP and ZvZ.

Commenting on TvP is like kicking a beehive, so I’ll try and keep this short. I like to play straight for the late-game against Protoss – I’ll only do midgame aggression to confirm whether he’s going for Colossus or storm, and then prepare accordingly. Oftentimes this results in the Protoss getting up their deathball, and then a-moving into my well-positioned army due to over-confidence, losing everything, and complaining about Terran being imba. Additionally, in the two games I lost, one of them I didn’t scout his hidden expansion, and the other…a single Dark Templar picked up 40 SCV kills, because I told myself I didn’t need to deal with it because I have MULES anyway. Such over-confidence. In any case, I know that I can stim, a-move and chew through everything the Protoss can throw at me, bar Colossus and Storm (and heavy amounts of Zealot/Archon, which specifically requires Marine/Ghost).

Back to something a little less sensitive. TvZ, oddly enough, also feels somewhat "safe". Opening hellions, and then going into tank/marine is quite straightforward. It’s also extremely effective, and easy to pull off. Sure there are cute things like multiple drops, banshee/Thor/Raven play, etc., but straight-up Marine/Tank is what I fear most as a Zerg, and what seems to be getting me the most wins as Terran. Maybe it’s the zergs in diamond that I happen to play against aren’t actually that good. But for now, don’t fix what ain’t broke!


Protoss:
+ Show Spoiler +
Probably the most-complained about race. Having 3 of the 4 current GSL semi-finalists isn’t making things easier (not to mention that the only Protoss who got knocked out of Ro8 was Naniwa, the only non-Korean). But that’s not relevant. What is relevant, is that Protoss is my most played race, and so probably has the most reliable statistic. Probably.

My PvT and PvZ winrate is ridiculously high. I have to say, PvT used to be my worst match-up, but I've worked on it a lot, and the results have been showing - something I would be quite proud of, if it wasn't greeted with a sneer more often than a cheer. PvZ is a little bit more “formulaic”, for lack of a better word. It almost universally starts as a FFE vs 3base Zerg. At this point, I like to take a fast third myself, while applying a little bit of pressure, unlike most Protoss players, who commit hard to an attack, and delay their own 3rd. I feel like what I’m doing only works at the lower levels, but it’s hard for me to fix a weakness I don’t know I have, since my opponents aren’t taking advantage of it (Zerg takes a fast 4th and goes straight for Broodlords…?)

PvP is clearly the Achilles heel of my Protoss play. When I expand, my enemy kills me off one base. When I play safe, my opponent already has an expansion up, and my push doesn’t break through. When I go Phoenix, he overruns me with Chargelot/Archon, but when I try to reciprocate, he somehow still has enough to defend. He also always seems to have a few more Colossus than me at any given time. I would not call PvP “coinflippy” – I simply acknowledge that I don’t understand the match-up that well, and need to work on it (a lot).


Overall:
+ Show Spoiler +

Taking a look at the last row, my overall win-rate is actually looking quite good against Terran and Zerg, but meagre against Protoss. In terms of averages, it seems that my Terran and Zerg winrates more or less balance each other out, and then my Protoss play is actually the deciding factor. Interestingly enough, I presume the same thing is happening to my MMR – my PvT and PvZ winrates are likely to be highly inflated, since my terrible Zerg play drags my rating down. So until I improve my control over the Swarm, the total winrates are going to be a little bit misleading, as I’ll be playing against players worse than my skill with Protoss, but better than my Zerg.


Improvements:
+ Show Spoiler +
I’ve found that the best way to improve, for me, is to pick a player, and just watch him play. Do what he does, but try to understand the nuances and subtleties of why he does what he does, and why it works for him. Inspired of course, by Day[9] – more precisely, #367: Becoming Nestea.


For Zerg, I’m going through most of Nestea’s replays from IPL4, as well as random bits and bobs of Stephano’s play.

Terran I’ll leave on the backburner for now, since I can’t see any glaring errors as of yet. But I want to play a more aggressive mid-game, and SlayerS_MMA’s extremely multi-drop style seems perfect for this (not to mention I like to play greedy in the opening if I can get away with it as well).

For PvP in particular, I’m considering looking into HuK, Naniwa, and Oz, all of whom have with different styles, but Parting looked unstoppable against Oz in the GSL Ro8. Of course, this is a much longer quest, since PvP has no easy answer, but the above mentioned players seem a good place to start.



Final Thoughts:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll post part 2 at some point in the future, when I find time to play enough games to have a meaningful effect on my statistics (or when I've lost another few dozen games as Zerg).

As ever, I appreciate all thoughts and comments. Especially if you can offer some tips to help me improve my weaker match-ups. Except TvP.


Because Squirtle is kicking so much Terran arse with his 2-base Colossus timing push at the moment, I want to see how that plays out first. I'm surprised that at IPL4, he managed to defeat Bomber, MMA, Jjakji, MarineKing, aLive (the 1st series), and is still continuining to rampage with it in the GSL. You'd think that Taeja would have prepared against it, but he collapsed as well. I love Parting and have absolute confidence he'll make it to the finals, but I almost wish MVP would make it through, to see if the King of Terran can stop this madness.


*
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 05:43:52
May 04 2012 05:43 GMT
#2
Not to be evil or overly negative, but in all seriousness that style of tvz and tvp won't last until high diamond @.@

I played it like that, and then started getting stomped when I started playing masters. And high diamonds. THey know to drone, and to not attack into a welld efended position.
cazminah
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3 Posts
May 04 2012 10:24 GMT
#3
lawl hah you suck at zerg 8D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
17:00
Mid Season Playoffs
MaxPax vs Solar
ByuN vs Cure
Shameless vs Lambo
SKillous vs Cham
Percival vs Harstem
ShoWTimE vs Krystianer
SteadfastSC148
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 308
Harstem 265
SteadfastSC 148
UpATreeSC 136
BRAT_OK 64
mouzHeroMarine 22
EmSc Tv 18
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7391
Mini 438
Light 277
Mong 154
Soulkey 149
actioN 132
Dewaltoss 92
Sharp 62
JYJ 39
Free 36
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 33
soO 27
910 27
Killer 23
IntoTheRainbow 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
qojqva2110
Trikslyr57
Counter-Strike
fl0m1816
x6flipin702
allub347
kRYSTAL_174
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu0
Other Games
singsing2154
ceh91531
Liquid`RaSZi961
B2W.Neo585
XaKoH 161
C9.Mang0132
KnowMe122
QueenE73
RuFF_SC219
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2412
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV535
EmSc Tv 18
EmSc2Tv 18
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 74
• Hupsaiya 14
• Reevou 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 25
• HerbMon 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2860
• TFBlade715
Other Games
• Shiphtur406
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
15h 6m
CrankTV Team League
17h 6m
WardiTV Qualifier
18h 6m
Epic.LAN
19h 6m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 16h
Epic.LAN
1d 19h
IPSL
1d 22h
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.