• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:56
CEST 12:56
KST 19:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th96Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
Soma's ASL Finals Review BW General Discussion OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24 FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1633 users

My Random Win-Rates: Part 1

Blogs > Paincarnate
Post a Reply
Paincarnate
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
115 Posts
May 04 2012 04:38 GMT
#1
Intro:

First of all, I’m in diamond, and I play random.

+ Show Spoiler +
I rarely ever cheese, since I find macroing as each race quite an engaging challenge to help me improve as a player. It also helps a lot to be aware of how a matchup feels from the opposite perspective. And of course, it’s fun to build nothing but drones until 60 food, or to just spam marines like there’s no tomorrow, or steamroll people with Colossus.


So, to satisfy my own curiosity (and ego), I decided to start recording my win/lose rate by race.

+ Show Spoiler +
I tried sc2gears, but I can’t get it to display stats for random. Also, in Excel, I can make it pretty (all those presentation skills from high school put to good use).


Before going any further, a couple of things to note: this is a record of my own personal statistics, and by no means reflects balance in any way, shape or form. All it means is how good I personally am with each individual race. It bears mentioning that my opponents may not be playing their best – for instance, forge expanding against random is ideal against Zerg (and arguably Terran), but is just asking to get 4-gated if I happen to spawn Protoss. In addition, Protoss is my strongest race, the one that I played most when I first began this game, and the one I’m most comfortable with, so naturally, on an off-day, I’ll ladder with Protoss instead of random. This is the reason for the higher proportion of Protoss games played.

Now that that’s out of the way, let’s take a look:

[image loading]

Zerg:
+ Show Spoiler +
The first thing to strike me was my extremely low winrate as Zerg. 15 games are enough to have a general idea of how things are going, and the answer here is clearly not well. No wins against Terran, a single win against Protoss. I did realize, upon watching my replays, that I wasn’t adding a 4th macro hatch after taking a 3rd base, which would lead to my money creeping up to 2k, but with me unable to spend it, despite nailing all my larva injects.

In ZvT, I was having trouble with large amounts of marines in the mid/late-game, whether they came with tanks, or whether they were dropped in 3 different places at once.

For ZvP, I came across the problem I’m sure all Zergs have experienced – the Protoss “deathball” push, which always seems to hit right before you can get your broodlords up.

I also distinctly recall losing a lot more ZvZ’s than were shown, but they got cleared out of my match history, so it actually looks like my best Zerg match-up – an unfortunate side-effect of statistics. In any case, it’s clear that Zerg is my weakest race, and I’m not in any position to say much more until I fix up my Zerg a bit first.


Terran:
+ Show Spoiler +
This is where things start to get a bit more interesting. I know for certain that I am most confident with Protoss, but I actually have a higher winrate as Terran. It’s obviously due to an insufficiently large sample size, but on top of that, Terran “feels” easier. Now, I’m not saying Terran is over-powered or imbalanced – I’m just saying that I have an easier time getting to grips with the human race than with the Swarm (I’ve played too much Protoss to comment). Maybe it’s because of the campaign, maybe it’s just that the flexibility of the Terran race, coupled with their “standard” macro mechanics (ie. compared to other RTS games), makes them more straightforward to play.

Certainly, the TvT mirror feels this way. Where PvP and ZvZ is vicious, often come down to a single misplaced forcefield or well-placed baneling, TvT is much more forgiving. So much, in fact, that it feels like a normal match-up instead of a mirror (if anything, I treat TvT as one would TvZ). Going pure bio is somewhat risky, but both bionic (MMM + tanks) and pure mech allow for the player to rely on his skill alone, rather than a combination his skill and an intimate understanding of the TvT match-up. The lethality of TvT just seems tame compared to the knife’s edge that is PvP and ZvZ.

Commenting on TvP is like kicking a beehive, so I’ll try and keep this short. I like to play straight for the late-game against Protoss – I’ll only do midgame aggression to confirm whether he’s going for Colossus or storm, and then prepare accordingly. Oftentimes this results in the Protoss getting up their deathball, and then a-moving into my well-positioned army due to over-confidence, losing everything, and complaining about Terran being imba. Additionally, in the two games I lost, one of them I didn’t scout his hidden expansion, and the other…a single Dark Templar picked up 40 SCV kills, because I told myself I didn’t need to deal with it because I have MULES anyway. Such over-confidence. In any case, I know that I can stim, a-move and chew through everything the Protoss can throw at me, bar Colossus and Storm (and heavy amounts of Zealot/Archon, which specifically requires Marine/Ghost).

Back to something a little less sensitive. TvZ, oddly enough, also feels somewhat "safe". Opening hellions, and then going into tank/marine is quite straightforward. It’s also extremely effective, and easy to pull off. Sure there are cute things like multiple drops, banshee/Thor/Raven play, etc., but straight-up Marine/Tank is what I fear most as a Zerg, and what seems to be getting me the most wins as Terran. Maybe it’s the zergs in diamond that I happen to play against aren’t actually that good. But for now, don’t fix what ain’t broke!


Protoss:
+ Show Spoiler +
Probably the most-complained about race. Having 3 of the 4 current GSL semi-finalists isn’t making things easier (not to mention that the only Protoss who got knocked out of Ro8 was Naniwa, the only non-Korean). But that’s not relevant. What is relevant, is that Protoss is my most played race, and so probably has the most reliable statistic. Probably.

My PvT and PvZ winrate is ridiculously high. I have to say, PvT used to be my worst match-up, but I've worked on it a lot, and the results have been showing - something I would be quite proud of, if it wasn't greeted with a sneer more often than a cheer. PvZ is a little bit more “formulaic”, for lack of a better word. It almost universally starts as a FFE vs 3base Zerg. At this point, I like to take a fast third myself, while applying a little bit of pressure, unlike most Protoss players, who commit hard to an attack, and delay their own 3rd. I feel like what I’m doing only works at the lower levels, but it’s hard for me to fix a weakness I don’t know I have, since my opponents aren’t taking advantage of it (Zerg takes a fast 4th and goes straight for Broodlords…?)

PvP is clearly the Achilles heel of my Protoss play. When I expand, my enemy kills me off one base. When I play safe, my opponent already has an expansion up, and my push doesn’t break through. When I go Phoenix, he overruns me with Chargelot/Archon, but when I try to reciprocate, he somehow still has enough to defend. He also always seems to have a few more Colossus than me at any given time. I would not call PvP “coinflippy” – I simply acknowledge that I don’t understand the match-up that well, and need to work on it (a lot).


Overall:
+ Show Spoiler +

Taking a look at the last row, my overall win-rate is actually looking quite good against Terran and Zerg, but meagre against Protoss. In terms of averages, it seems that my Terran and Zerg winrates more or less balance each other out, and then my Protoss play is actually the deciding factor. Interestingly enough, I presume the same thing is happening to my MMR – my PvT and PvZ winrates are likely to be highly inflated, since my terrible Zerg play drags my rating down. So until I improve my control over the Swarm, the total winrates are going to be a little bit misleading, as I’ll be playing against players worse than my skill with Protoss, but better than my Zerg.


Improvements:
+ Show Spoiler +
I’ve found that the best way to improve, for me, is to pick a player, and just watch him play. Do what he does, but try to understand the nuances and subtleties of why he does what he does, and why it works for him. Inspired of course, by Day[9] – more precisely, #367: Becoming Nestea.


For Zerg, I’m going through most of Nestea’s replays from IPL4, as well as random bits and bobs of Stephano’s play.

Terran I’ll leave on the backburner for now, since I can’t see any glaring errors as of yet. But I want to play a more aggressive mid-game, and SlayerS_MMA’s extremely multi-drop style seems perfect for this (not to mention I like to play greedy in the opening if I can get away with it as well).

For PvP in particular, I’m considering looking into HuK, Naniwa, and Oz, all of whom have with different styles, but Parting looked unstoppable against Oz in the GSL Ro8. Of course, this is a much longer quest, since PvP has no easy answer, but the above mentioned players seem a good place to start.



Final Thoughts:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll post part 2 at some point in the future, when I find time to play enough games to have a meaningful effect on my statistics (or when I've lost another few dozen games as Zerg).

As ever, I appreciate all thoughts and comments. Especially if you can offer some tips to help me improve my weaker match-ups. Except TvP.


Because Squirtle is kicking so much Terran arse with his 2-base Colossus timing push at the moment, I want to see how that plays out first. I'm surprised that at IPL4, he managed to defeat Bomber, MMA, Jjakji, MarineKing, aLive (the 1st series), and is still continuining to rampage with it in the GSL. You'd think that Taeja would have prepared against it, but he collapsed as well. I love Parting and have absolute confidence he'll make it to the finals, but I almost wish MVP would make it through, to see if the King of Terran can stop this madness.


*
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-04 05:43:52
May 04 2012 05:43 GMT
#2
Not to be evil or overly negative, but in all seriousness that style of tvz and tvp won't last until high diamond @.@

I played it like that, and then started getting stomped when I started playing masters. And high diamonds. THey know to drone, and to not attack into a welld efended position.
cazminah
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3 Posts
May 04 2012 10:24 GMT
#3
lawl hah you suck at zerg 8D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
07:00
Season 5: Playoffs Day 6
herO vs ClemLIVE!
Tasteless2133
IntoTheiNu 518
Ryung 463
IndyStarCraft 252
3DClanTV 124
Rex122
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 2133
Ryung 463
IndyStarCraft 252
Rex 122
RotterdaM 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 7340
firebathero 4360
Horang2 2310
EffOrt 295
Last 140
ZerO 124
sorry 122
ToSsGirL 79
JulyZerg 59
[sc1f]eonzerg 48
[ Show more ]
Rush 38
Sacsri 32
hero 28
IntoTheRainbow 19
Barracks 17
NotJumperer 14
Movie 13
Nal_rA 13
Dota 2
XcaliburYe268
Dendi1
Counter-Strike
edward165
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK11
Other Games
summit1g10896
Happy281
Mew2King59
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL262
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2380
• Stunt496
Upcoming Events
Maestros of the Game
2h 5m
SHIN vs Nicoract
Rogue vs Gerald
ByuN vs Shameless
Cure vs TriGGeR
OSC
2h 5m
IPSL
5h 5m
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
Showmatch
5h 5m
Percival vs Lambo
ByuN vs Clem
YoungYakov vs GuMiho
ByuN vs Creator
BSL
8h 5m
Wardi Open
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Murky Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.