• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:57
CET 08:57
KST 16:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Foreign Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1065 users

This is not just a game

Blogs > KristofferAG
Post a Reply
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
May 02 2012 10:52 GMT
#1
I tried watching today's Code S Ro8 matches between NaNiw and Mvp while doing an LR today, but at the end of the last game my stream decided to crash over and over to the point where I couldn't watch at all.

I did however keep reading the LR thread in hopes that someone would say something about what was going on. Usually this is a fairly simple deal. All the way up to Round of 8, there are few issues in the LR threads, little bitching and little throwing of shit. Of course people are sometimes sad that their favorites don't win, and they'll try to find something to blame.

As you reach Ro8 in any tournament, people are going to become even more passionate about their favorites. They're really really close to a good spot by then, It is, after all, the quarter finals. This obviously means that people will be really really angry at minor things happening.

During today's series between Mvp and NaNiwa, Mvp opted to go for some quite cheesy and all-innish strategies. In game 1 mvp went for a really strong 2-base agressive play with marines, marauders, siege tanks and vikings. The Colossi of NaNi fell rather quick, as did the third base. The following push on the natural of NaNi took it out rather easily as NaNi was forced to fight on the ramp, thus clumping up his units for the siege tanks to shell away. Behind all this Mvp kept making units and made no attempt at expanding. In game 2, Mvp hid a double barracks opening in his natural. NaNi went for a forge expand with up to two cannons at his ramp. As Mvp pulled SCVs, it wasn't enough to stop the Terran forces from stomping all over NaNi. The third game went in NaNi's favor as he managed to take Mvp off guard. This was after NaNi failed an attempt at doing some blink stalker trickery into the main of Mvp. Had the tanks gotten to siege up in time, the game would've ended entirely different. In the last game, Mvp finished it all off with a double 11rax on the third of NaNi. With a really late Gateway on 15, NaNi wasn't able to hold off the attack or stop the bunker from building, even with scouting the two barracks, and the series ended 3-1 to Mvp.

Now, like I mentioned, people will react agressively when their favorites lose. Naturally people react differently to what goes on or what happens to their favorites. Feeling sad and angry is absolutely natural, especially when your favorite loses to agressive and to some extent cheesy/all-innish strategies. In a case like this, it's wholly understandable. In the LR thread the vocal minority kept ripping on Mvp for executing the builds he did.

NaNi has never been exceptionally good at holding off these cheesy strategies. He is a macro player, quite frankly. I can imagine that Mvp in his current condition (CTS) does not want to go for long macro games against a very strong Protoss opponent. He also knows that he will have to face protoss later on, and one can assume that he doesn't want to reveal his strategies this early on. Especially when he knows he can win by being very agressive early-game.

All sports are competitive. If you go to the lower leagues of, say, soccer, you'll find people workign their asses of to win, at any cost. It's all about getting the ball in the net by any means. You don't have to do an amazing curved shot from outside the penalty box to get a goal, a simple header from a corner will suffice. It's not the most entertaining thing to watch, but it's what's needed to win.

SC2 is no different. As a spectator I too want to enjoy good games. I do prefer games that cross the 20-minute mark and has action back and forth with drops and minor as well as large engagements. I always loved BW because it was never completely clear who would win for large parts of the games. it was always back and forth with amazing play from both sides, sprinkled with some cheesy games here and there.

However I do understand that this is not just a game. When you're a professional SC2/BW player you're playing this to make money. You're doing it to win, to get that check and that trophy. I'd love to have nothing but entertaining and interesting play throughout the entire of GSL, but I understand that this is not at all possible. A player will do anything to win, no matter what that means. If it means long games to tire out your opponent, go for it. If it means short games because your opponent is bad at holding off cheese, then go for it.

You can't watch a tournament and expect the players to do it for entertainment value instead of playing to win. If you're really interested in entertaining games, you should instead check out showmatches, or even player streams, where there's not that much on the line. Chances are you'll see more fun builds and longer games this way.

I even saw someone talking about how this was not good for e-sports. To you I say, "WHAT!?"
How anyone can say that a couple of cheesy and quick games are figuratively killing e-sports is beyond me. Oh god yes, we wouldn't want people to play to win, they must make it entertaining and promote e-sports. E-sports first, the life of a pro-gamer second.

It's just my 2 cents.

****
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
Firereaver
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
India1701 Posts
May 02 2012 11:08 GMT
#2
well written and solid points...
"They drone drone drone , me win" - JangMinChul(Iron/oGsMC)
zZygote
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada898 Posts
May 02 2012 11:29 GMT
#3
Everyone seems to be trying to be making a fuss about anything hurting esports. Great write-up, summed about most of the things on my mind as well.
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
May 02 2012 11:31 GMT
#4
Thanks to the both of you.

It's to expect that as the game grows, there will be more peoplein the community, and more people can easily mean more drama. It's something we should be able to avoid IMO.
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 02 2012 11:54 GMT
#5
Cheese is so fun to watch anyways. Most excitement.

MVP Fighting.
Jaedong :3
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft756
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57430
GuemChi 2161
PianO 1386
910 193
JulyZerg 140
Leta 117
ggaemo 90
sorry 85
Soma 81
Dewaltoss 53
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 30
Noble 26
Hm[arnc] 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 3
Dota 2
singsing1934
NeuroSwarm170
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0657
hungrybox365
AZ_Axe27
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor149
Other Games
summit1g12038
mouzStarbuck174
kaitlyn34
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH232
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo764
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2h 3m
WardiTV 2025
4h 3m
OSC
7h 3m
IPSL
9h 3m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
12h 3m
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Wardi Open
1d 4h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 8h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Kuram Kup
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.