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Bronze, a Whole Different Game?

Blogs > JingleHell
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JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 20:34:03
April 23 2012 18:15 GMT
#1
So, unlike Gheed, I'm a legit Bronze. I tend to agree with him that there's some serious problems with Bronze league. In fact, I think you can't even consider the majority of Bronze games to be SC2, which I think is partly to blame for me still being there. (Along with not practicing and sucking.)

Let me give you an example. This is from a game I played on the ladder last night.

As you can see, my opponent throws down a 7 pool. I'm opening 14 pool personally.
[image loading]
That's a 7 pool. Cross on Metalopolis.

[image loading]
That's my 14 pool.

Since I did the utterly unthinkable, and used one of those super cheesy drones to scout (hax, clearly), and knew he had a stupidly early pool, I don't expand yet, rush out a queen, and pump some more drones. My enemy goes all-in (by sane standards) with 6 lings, and 7 workers.

[image loading]
The... dreaded?... 6 ling, 7 worker rush

One of his workers starts morphing to a spine, one goes for my pool, and the lings and remaining drones go after all my drones. Around this time he realizes he has extra minerals, so he kicks out a couple of drones, which he leaves mining...

[image loading]
Queen, lings, drones.

Anyways, a spine, queen, a few lings, and my drones easily hold off the rush. Not even close to a fight. At this point, I have a few surviving drones, and 2 lings. My opponent has gotten up to 4 drones, a hatch, and a pool. He then proceeds to stay in until I show up and start killing his drones by microing 2 lings. I tried to ask how often it works, but he instantly ignored me.

Now I have to ask. Is this even the same game that I regularly watch? I'm not convinced. I'm sure if I played like a Bronze, I could probably get out of Bronze faster, but I want to actually be playing Starcraft 2 when I get out, instead of some bizarre bastardization that has me having to backtrack and learn how to play the game later.

Unfortunately, when you go up against people who make 37 cannons and 1-base carrier push at the 45 minute mark, playing standard SC2 with lowish skill at mechanics doesn't do much. So I try to practice the right skillset, and it holds me back.

In short, while I agree with Gheed that Bronze has issues, I think that some of those issues are self-perpetuating, in that there's a totally different game being played. You can't actually fix Bronze one player at a time, because it's literally MMR hell. Once you're trapped there, if you try to improve properly, there's a good chance you'll stay trapped for quite a while, because escaping would require playing a totally different game.

Now hopefully I'll be escaping soon, and I intend to keep bringing up my progress, streaming when I have time, hopefully phase into casting some, but in the meantime... well, consider trying this strange game called Bronze out. It will blow your mind.

Ok, since nobody seems to be capable of reading past the OP before a moronic knee-jerk reply that has nothing to do with what the fuck I'm talking about: THIS BLOG IS NOT ABOUT COMPLAINING. IF YOU READ MY OTHER SHIT, OR MY OTHER POSTS IN HERE, OR THE WHOLE FUCKING OP, YOU'LL REALIZE I KNOW THAT I SUCK AT THIS GAME. THIS BLOG IS ABOUT THE RATHER HUMOROUS FACT THAT PLAYING AT THE LOWEST LEVELS IS LIKE PLAYING A DIFFERENT GAME. THANK YOU!

***
sweetbabyjesus
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark168 Posts
April 23 2012 18:24 GMT
#2
Can't you just 6pool every game to get out of bronze pretty fast? It would make for some sucky days while you do it, if you don't enjoy it that is, but it shouldnt be too hard to get out of bronze that way i wouldn't think?
Crabs
Th1rdEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1074 Posts
April 23 2012 18:25 GMT
#3
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.
from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo
Vod.kaholic
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1052 Posts
April 23 2012 18:28 GMT
#4
Here's how I see it:

If you improve properly and have all the skills you need to play decent SC2 that approximates optimal/pro play, you can get out of bronze MMR hell because those skills are pliable enough to allow you to exploit what bronzies are doing. My suggestion is to keep improving by playing against slightly higher people (silver/gold/plat) for now, and adapt to the bronze "metagame" while you're still down there.

Once you master basic skills, adapting to the bronze metagame or being good enough to ignore it entirely is fairly easy.
._. \: |: /: .-. :\ :| :/ ._. They see me rolling...
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
April 23 2012 18:29 GMT
#5
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.
Opec
Profile Joined June 2011
42 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 18:32:24
April 23 2012 18:29 GMT
#6
Play safe, scout a lot, react to what you see. That's all there is to it. If you're good enough to get out of bronze, that will do it. Do you think there's no cheese outside of bronze or something? No weird builds? There's people who have gotten to GM with only 6 pools, 4gates or 3rax scv all inns.

If you're actually playing against people who go 30 cannons into carriers on 1 base, you expand fucking everywhere and destroy his army once he moves out. He has no abilty to pressure or punish at all. If he somehow manages to beat your army, you have enough money to make it 3 times over.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
April 23 2012 18:31 GMT
#7
On April 24 2012 03:29 Opec wrote:
Play safe, scout a lot, react to what you see. That's all there is to it. If you're good enough to get out of bronze, that will do it. Do you think there's no cheese outside of bronze or something? No weird builds? There's people who have gotten to GM with only 6 pools, 4gates or 3rax scv all inns.


No, I'm aware there's more to the game. It's just frustrating to try to improve in Bronze, because I'm playing against things that really make so little sense that it's hard to get functional improvement out of my games.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 18:34:34
April 23 2012 18:33 GMT
#8
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.

Admission: Played a Bronzie a while back, a-moved marines around, destroyed his main and his nat @ 10 minutes 'cause he didn't have jack shit, realized he'd had another probe escape and had moved it down to another corner of his map, a-moved 200/200 marines there 'cause what the hell, he's dead right? Met what must've been 60 goddamn cannons. Cue me trying to break his 60 cannons for the rest of the game, then he has a huge voidray/colossi deathball that stomps over me and my bio.

I literally had every other base on the map and had mined out what must've been five bases as I tried to break those cannons to no avail.

//shame
Opec
Profile Joined June 2011
42 Posts
April 23 2012 18:37 GMT
#9
On April 24 2012 03:33 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.

Admission: Played a Bronzie a while back, a-moved marines around, destroyed his main and his nat @ 10 minutes 'cause he didn't have jack shit, realized he'd had another probe escape and had moved it down to another corner of his map, a-moved 200/200 marines there 'cause what the hell, he's dead right? Met what must've been 60 goddamn cannons. Cue me trying to break his 60 cannons for the rest of the game, then he has a huge voidray/colossi deathball that stomps over me and my bio.

I literally had every other base on the map and had mined out what must've been five bases as I tried to break those cannons to no avail.

//shame


If he spent 9000 minerals on cannons after losing his base you could probably have afforded to make a couple of siege tanks
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
April 23 2012 18:40 GMT
#10
On April 24 2012 03:33 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.

Admission: Played a Bronzie a while back, a-moved marines around, destroyed his main and his nat @ 10 minutes 'cause he didn't have jack shit, realized he'd had another probe escape and had moved it down to another corner of his map, a-moved 200/200 marines there 'cause what the hell, he's dead right? Met what must've been 60 goddamn cannons. Cue me trying to break his 60 cannons for the rest of the game, then he has a huge voidray/colossi deathball that stomps over me and my bio.

I literally had every other base on the map and had mined out what must've been five bases as I tried to break those cannons to no avail.

//shame


And that's what I'm talking about. Stuff that CAN be stopped by a certain level of play, but the level of play needed to stop it is outside the realm of a Bronzie. And that keeps my MMR low enough that I'm playing against more of the same, which keeps me from really getting the chance to work on my mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to own my part of my losses. I'm aware, I suck, my mechanics suck, I forget to scout, I forget upgrades, I take gas too early, I forget to spread creep, I miss injects. I fuck up enough things per game that IF I got it all down perfect, I'd be playing a totally different game. But right now, working on it is tricky, because you run into people with more turrets than Barracks. You see a nearly unbreakable front on 1-2 bases that's turtled up insanely, and they just wait and wait. Eventually you might win with Broods/Corrupters against that sort of thing, but it's so damned random it makes practicing tricky.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
April 23 2012 18:41 GMT
#11
On April 24 2012 03:37 Opec wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:33 babylon wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.

Admission: Played a Bronzie a while back, a-moved marines around, destroyed his main and his nat @ 10 minutes 'cause he didn't have jack shit, realized he'd had another probe escape and had moved it down to another corner of his map, a-moved 200/200 marines there 'cause what the hell, he's dead right? Met what must've been 60 goddamn cannons. Cue me trying to break his 60 cannons for the rest of the game, then he has a huge voidray/colossi deathball that stomps over me and my bio.

I literally had every other base on the map and had mined out what must've been five bases as I tried to break those cannons to no avail.

//shame


If he spent 9000 minerals on cannons after losing his base you could probably have afforded to make a couple of siege tanks

I didn't know it was a bajillion cannons at the time, so I was like "LOLOLOL NOOB, I'LL JUST OVERRUN YOU WITH MARINES AND MARAUDERS." After my attack failed for like the 3rd time I was all, "Oh fine, guess I gotta make factories." So I did. Problem was by then he had a lot of VRs and colossi. I tried to get a bunch of vikings out but was too slow on the uptake. T_T

I still had five mining bases when I left the game, but at that point, even if I'd killed his deathball, it would've taken goddamn forever destroying his cannons and (new) main+nat.
Smartyz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom9 Posts
April 23 2012 18:49 GMT
#12
On April 24 2012 03:40 JingleHell wrote:

And that's what I'm talking about. Stuff that CAN be stopped by a certain level of play, but the level of play needed to stop it is outside the realm of a Bronzie. And that keeps my MMR low enough that I'm playing against more of the same, which keeps me from really getting the chance to work on my mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to own my part of my losses. I'm aware, I suck, my mechanics suck, I forget to scout, I forget upgrades, I take gas too early, I forget to spread creep, I miss injects. I fuck up enough things per game that IF I got it all down perfect, I'd be playing a totally different game. But right now, working on it is tricky, because you run into people with more turrets than Barracks. You see a nearly unbreakable front on 1-2 bases that's turtled up insanely, and they just wait and wait. Eventually you might win with Broods/Corrupters against that sort of thing, but it's so damned random it makes practicing tricky.


Well then pick one thing to improve on and do that, e.g. 'my injects are terrible' then work on maximising your larva in each game and work on one of the more important aspects of the game at the same time, which is to adapt to what your opponent is doing. Especially playing zerg, which a lot of the time is played as a reaction to what your opponent is doing
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
April 23 2012 18:52 GMT
#13
Jingle, that is true for EVERY level of play though, it's harder to get better than the players you face since you can't face anyone better than that to learn from. Bronze is still the EASIEST of all leagues to advance from, and since you read gheed's blogs he claims all you need to do is learn how to fucking play the game.

I don't really see what's wrong with being bronze though as long as you are having fun it shouldn't bother you! but don't try to blame your incompetence on some fictional elo hell, if you really think playing against better opponents would help (it probably would) can't you find some? through teamliquid or chat channel or something.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
April 23 2012 18:54 GMT
#14
On April 24 2012 03:49 Smartyz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:40 JingleHell wrote:

And that's what I'm talking about. Stuff that CAN be stopped by a certain level of play, but the level of play needed to stop it is outside the realm of a Bronzie. And that keeps my MMR low enough that I'm playing against more of the same, which keeps me from really getting the chance to work on my mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to own my part of my losses. I'm aware, I suck, my mechanics suck, I forget to scout, I forget upgrades, I take gas too early, I forget to spread creep, I miss injects. I fuck up enough things per game that IF I got it all down perfect, I'd be playing a totally different game. But right now, working on it is tricky, because you run into people with more turrets than Barracks. You see a nearly unbreakable front on 1-2 bases that's turtled up insanely, and they just wait and wait. Eventually you might win with Broods/Corrupters against that sort of thing, but it's so damned random it makes practicing tricky.


Well then pick one thing to improve on and do that, e.g. 'my injects are terrible' then work on maximising your larva in each game and work on one of the more important aspects of the game at the same time, which is to adapt to what your opponent is doing. Especially playing zerg, which a lot of the time is played as a reaction to what your opponent is doing


If I sit down planning to focus on maximizing larva, I tend to run into a string of players who rush. Universe is a spiteful little shit that way.

That's why I've been trying to improve my play as a general thing, rather than specific elements at once. It's all so bad that it's not like just getting one skill will make me good enough to escape bronze. I think that's one thing a lot of higher league players don't understand.

When you play THAT bad, focus on one thing doesn't help much. If someone has never driven a car, and they hop into a rear wheel drive stick shift on icey roads, is focussing on proper clutch control going to keep them from wrecking?
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
April 23 2012 18:56 GMT
#15
This is exactly how I feel.

I'm a bronze player almost entirely because I suck at playing the game. I watch enough high level play that I know what to do, but I don't have the mechanics down. I have out-micro'd basically every player I've ever played in bronze because I can actually micro zealot-stalker (at least passably enough to count as micro vs another bronzie anyway), but I don't have any build orders drilled in because I have trouble actually remembering them (or remembering to check my food to do things at the right time), I get supply blocked far too often, and am basically incapable of macroing up while I attack.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 19:07:27
April 23 2012 19:05 GMT
#16
On April 24 2012 03:52 nttea wrote:
Jingle, that is true for EVERY level of play though, it's harder to get better than the players you face since you can't face anyone better than that to learn from. Bronze is still the EASIEST of all leagues to advance from, and since you read gheed's blogs he claims all you need to do is learn how to fucking play the game.

I don't really see what's wrong with being bronze though as long as you are having fun it shouldn't bother you! but don't try to blame your incompetence on some fictional elo hell, if you really think playing against better opponents would help (it probably would) can't you find some? through teamliquid or chat channel or something.


I'm working on finding people to work with, actually.

I'm curious where you got this impression of "blaming incompetence on some fictional elo hell". I pretty clearly own my part in sucking. However, if you aren't actually smart enough to recognize that you pretty blatantly contradict yourself, you probably shouldn't be attacking me based on a gross misperception of what I said. I'm not claiming to be better than the people I play. I'm claiming that they're so bad that I don't improve much by playing against them. You seem to agree this is entirely possible, and since this is the only definition of MMR hell being used in this blog, you should probably try thinking a bit before trying to sound all superior.

On April 24 2012 03:56 Bobbias wrote:
This is exactly how I feel.

I'm a bronze player almost entirely because I suck at playing the game. I watch enough high level play that I know what to do, but I don't have the mechanics down. I have out-micro'd basically every player I've ever played in bronze because I can actually micro zealot-stalker (at least passably enough to count as micro vs another bronzie anyway), but I don't have any build orders drilled in because I have trouble actually remembering them (or remembering to check my food to do things at the right time), I get supply blocked far too often, and am basically incapable of macroing up while I attack.


Supply blocks are actually getting kind of rare for me, without going overboard on overlords. Macro while attacking also isn't usually too bad. I just screw up so bad managing my economy, scouting, and injecting that it kicks my ass.

My micro is getting better though, especially by Bronze standards.
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
April 23 2012 19:10 GMT
#17
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.


I can't believe you are arguing this.

You clearly don't understand. Just practice mechanics and how to defend early allins (by scouting and reacting properly) and you will easily get out of bronze.
Jaedong :3
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
April 23 2012 19:12 GMT
#18
On April 24 2012 04:10 ReketSomething wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.


I can't believe you are arguing this.

You clearly don't understand. Just practice mechanics and how to defend early allins (by scouting and reacting properly) and you will easily get out of bronze.


Yknow, I hear this a lot, but I'm curious just how many of the people saying that have spent much time in Bronze league? There's a significant difference between a Diamond/Masters level player tanking to Bronze and then working their way back out, and trying to gradually improve across the same difference when there's literally no sane metagame.
Opec
Profile Joined June 2011
42 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 19:14:26
April 23 2012 19:13 GMT
#19
On April 24 2012 04:05 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:52 nttea wrote:
Jingle, that is true for EVERY level of play though, it's harder to get better than the players you face since you can't face anyone better than that to learn from. Bronze is still the EASIEST of all leagues to advance from, and since you read gheed's blogs he claims all you need to do is learn how to fucking play the game.

I don't really see what's wrong with being bronze though as long as you are having fun it shouldn't bother you! but don't try to blame your incompetence on some fictional elo hell, if you really think playing against better opponents would help (it probably would) can't you find some? through teamliquid or chat channel or something.


I'm working on finding people to work with, actually.

I'm curious where you got this impression of "blaming incompetence on some fictional elo hell". I pretty clearly own my part in sucking. However, if you aren't actually smart enough to recognize that you pretty blatantly contradict yourself, you probably shouldn't be attacking me based on a gross misperception of what I said. I'm not claiming to be better than the people I play. I'm claiming that they're so bad that I don't improve much by playing against them. You seem to agree this is entirely possible, and since this is the only definition of MMR hell being used in this blog, you should probably try thinking a bit before trying to sound all superior.

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:56 Bobbias wrote:
This is exactly how I feel.

I'm a bronze player almost entirely because I suck at playing the game. I watch enough high level play that I know what to do, but I don't have the mechanics down. I have out-micro'd basically every player I've ever played in bronze because I can actually micro zealot-stalker (at least passably enough to count as micro vs another bronzie anyway), but I don't have any build orders drilled in because I have trouble actually remembering them (or remembering to check my food to do things at the right time), I get supply blocked far too often, and am basically incapable of macroing up while I attack.


Supply blocks are actually getting kind of rare for me, without going overboard on overlords. Macro while attacking also isn't usually too bad. I just screw up so bad managing my economy, scouting, and injecting that it kicks my ass.

My micro is getting better though, especially by Bronze standards.


Don't play the player so much. Play against yourself. Benchmark your worker count and supply at different times and try to exceed them. It's possible to improve a lot even against the AI.
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
April 23 2012 19:23 GMT
#20
On April 24 2012 04:05 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:52 nttea wrote:
Jingle, that is true for EVERY level of play though, it's harder to get better than the players you face since you can't face anyone better than that to learn from. Bronze is still the EASIEST of all leagues to advance from, and since you read gheed's blogs he claims all you need to do is learn how to fucking play the game.

I don't really see what's wrong with being bronze though as long as you are having fun it shouldn't bother you! but don't try to blame your incompetence on some fictional elo hell, if you really think playing against better opponents would help (it probably would) can't you find some? through teamliquid or chat channel or something.


I'm working on finding people to work with, actually.

I'm curious where you got this impression of "blaming incompetence on some fictional elo hell". I pretty clearly own my part in sucking. However, if you aren't actually smart enough to recognize that you pretty blatantly contradict yourself, you probably shouldn't be attacking me based on a gross misperception of what I said. I'm not claiming to be better than the people I play. I'm claiming that they're so bad that I don't improve much by playing against them. You seem to agree this is entirely possible, and since this is the only definition of MMR hell being used in this blog, you should probably try thinking a bit before trying to sound all superior.

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:56 Bobbias wrote:
This is exactly how I feel.

I'm a bronze player almost entirely because I suck at playing the game. I watch enough high level play that I know what to do, but I don't have the mechanics down. I have out-micro'd basically every player I've ever played in bronze because I can actually micro zealot-stalker (at least passably enough to count as micro vs another bronzie anyway), but I don't have any build orders drilled in because I have trouble actually remembering them (or remembering to check my food to do things at the right time), I get supply blocked far too often, and am basically incapable of macroing up while I attack.


Supply blocks are actually getting kind of rare for me, without going overboard on overlords. Macro while attacking also isn't usually too bad. I just screw up so bad managing my economy, scouting, and injecting that it kicks my ass.

My micro is getting better though, especially by Bronze standards.


Well, as a toss I actually have to place buildings, so I can't just spam a few larva into overlords at once but yeah, I don't get supply blocked THAT often, but when I do, it's usually sometime that it's important not to :/

On April 24 2012 04:10 ReketSomething wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2012 03:29 JingleHell wrote:
On April 24 2012 03:25 Th1rdEye wrote:
You're thinking about it wrong. It's a totally different game because people don't follow build orders, don't know how to macro, and don't know how to micro

Learn all of the above and you will EASILY move out of bronze.. those 45 minute carrier pushers will die at 12 minutes to your 200/200 army.


As it turns out, 200 food of Roach/ling doesn't break 30+ cannons at the top of a ramp. By the time you have a decent muta pack, there's carriers on the field.

I could try cheesing every game to get out of Bronze, but I'm entirely not convinced that the rest of my play would be up to par for staying safely out of Bronze if I did that.


I can't believe you are arguing this.

You clearly don't understand. Just practice mechanics and how to defend early allins (by scouting and reacting properly) and you will easily get out of bronze.


Scouting in bronze? That works like this "Oh, that terran took double gas early, must be tech coming..." And then he makes 7 barracks and pumps non-stop marines.

"Oh, that zerg got an early pool, pressure incoming!" And then the zerg techs up to hydras and stays on 2 base hydra all game.

When your scouting mechanics are bad to begin with, it's impossible to actually make sense of what your opponent is doing in bronze without actually seeing their army. Even seeing buildings doesn't necessarily mean anything. Because some bronze players just build the building because they feel like it and can afford it.

Now, if I could actually get my mechanics to the level I'd like, I'm sure simply knowing what my goal is would be enough to beat these people, but I am so damn bad at actually doing things that everything else suffers. Here's an example of how my mechanics being so bad causes so many problems: say it takes me 2 or 3 seconds to successfully hotkey something because I missed the ctrl key, and because of that I end up forgetting to check my food, so I get supply blocked, and then I forget to check my minimap and deal with my army being attacked while I'm in the base trying to clear my supply block, and before you know it I've lost my army because I couldn't hotkey something right. Say I'll be trying to macro 2 or 3 bases, but I screwed up and didn't hotkey my nexuses together like I planned, and now I've queued up a bunch of probes off 1 base while forgetting to build any at my other bases. Crap like that happens way more often than it should, and holds me back from playing at the level that I could if my mechanics were better.
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