EPTBrief googling found me not much information.
Edit:
I more so want this to be about why we think things take up space? Photons do not take up any space but when it turns into mass it gains volume? Why?
Why do fundamental particles take up space?
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syth99
United States59 Posts
Brief googling found me not much information. Edit: I more so want this to be about why we think things take up space? Photons do not take up any space but when it turns into mass it gains volume? Why? | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
Sound good? | ||
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syth99
United States59 Posts
On March 24 2012 10:56 tryummm wrote: Give me 2-3 more years of studying physics and I'll PM you an answer. Sound good? haha, sounds great | ||
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munchmunch
Canada789 Posts
On March 24 2012 10:54 syth99 wrote: Might be over my head on this one, but I think it's the Pauli exclusion principle, a fundamental law of quantum mechanics.I have been thinking about this a bit since i saw a tv show and someone stated the size of an electron. Why do fundamental particles take up space? if i was to take two electrons and push them together strong enough to overcome their repulsive forces what stops them from taking up the same space? Brief googling found me not much information. Edit: Oh ShadowWolf, how embarassing for you  | ||
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ShadowWolf
United States197 Posts
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N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
2 things cannot occupy the same space if they are solid. This assumes electrons are solid. | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
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Lixler
United States265 Posts
On March 24 2012 11:21 N3rV[Green] wrote: Simple, an electron is a thing, with mass and size and charge. 2 things cannot occupy the same space if they are solid. This assumes electrons are solid. It's nigh-meaningless to call something on the particular level "solid." The actual forces that keep fermions apart have nothing to do with "solidity," which is really just an emergent property of electromagnetically interacting macroscopic bodies anyway. | ||
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dangthatsright
1160 Posts
The Heisenberg uncertainty principle tells us that the position and momentum of a particle cannot both be measured exactly at any one time (more precisely, the product of the errors is at least the reduced Planck's constant over 2). This basically tells us that you can only describe a particle's state with a probability distribution. For the electrons in an atom, this is what the electron orbitals are. The Pauli exclusion principle tells you that no identical fermions (for example, the electron) can have the same quantum states. Electrons in the atom have their quantum state described by four quantum numbers. Of these, the first three determine the electron orbital and the last one is the so-called spin of the electron. What this means is that essentially, two electrons can in fact be in the same place (though we are referring to the fact that they're in the same orbital) as long as they have different spins. | ||
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Chaves
Brazil315 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
Also, Pauli Exclusion Principle. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 24 2012 11:21 N3rV[Green] wrote: Simple, an electron is a thing, with mass and size and charge. 2 things cannot occupy the same space if they are solid. This assumes electrons are solid. epic troll | ||
micronesia
United States24705 Posts
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Serpest
United States603 Posts
Complicated, I know, but then I just finished my QM final exam today. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:05 Roe wrote: how could something that exists not take up space? Because it's so incredibly small its atomic mass is essentially 0. With a quick search the estimated mass is like 9.10938188 × 10^-31, which again, is so small it may as well be 0. Add into that that they move at near the speed of light, Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and Pauli Exclusion Principle and well -- you can't mash together two Electrons as described in the OP. So yeah. Electrons exist but, for all intents and purposes, do not take up any space (technically). | ||
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:20 Candadar wrote: Because it's so incredibly small its atomic mass is essentially 0. ... are you equating mass and position/volume? | ||
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micronesia
United States24705 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:28 micronesia wrote: I think he just means that for extremely small particles the everyday concept of position and volume aren't applicable. Technically they aren't for everyday objects either, but the approximation is so close that we neglect the difference. ^ But hell, I won't pretend like I know what the fuck is going on in the Quantum/Subatomic world.  | ||
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keeperton
United States233 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:04 Serpest wrote: Actually, electrons with the same spin can't occupy the same quantum state - a slight difference in semantics. Electrons have two spins: spin 1/2 (which is characteristically referred to as spin up) and spin -1/2 (spin down). Also, electrons (as do other quantum particles) don't actually occupy a particular location, but rather, they exist within a probability space. So when someone says two electrons occupy the same space, what they actually are saying is two electrons with degeneracy and opposite spins are within an area (of which their location comes down to energy probabilities). Complicated, I know, but then I just finished my QM final exam today. This is also true in writing the electron configuration of an atom. Doesn't necessarily need to be as complex as quantum mechanics in this case as that's more of a general chemistry thing. | ||
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