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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
What is the purpose of a car? As with most purchases, there are primary and auxiliary benefits that are derived from a vehicle. However, because a car is one of the most expensive purchases that one can make, it's rather important to know why exactly you are buying a particular car, and what values you hope to extract from it. While the exact motivators will differ from person to person, not considering the exact reasons for the purchase can potentially lead to a financial disaster. Personally, I cringe when I hear of a young person buying an expensive, say 20,000USD+ vehicle. This is because my belief is that a car's primary purpose its transportation capacity, and that its secondary purpose is to provide safety during said transportation process[1]. What car to buy, then, is a function of how much I pay for these two qualities, relative to my personal financial situation. It's honestly rather simple. Because I personally value my safety over pure economy of transportation, I choose to drive a firmly built, rigid, heavy vehicle. These tend to be a bit more expensive than the typical Asian super-mileage cars, but to me, the increased safety is worth the money. But on the other hand, I don't spend more money than this to attain the more peripheral benefits of a car. What are additional values of a car, tertiary and beyond? A non-exhaustive list would include: speed, thrill, luxury, comfort, and status. Depending on the person, shelling out 5 figures to buy these virtues can surely be acceptable. If you have 10MMUSD in the bank, you can choose to buy a 100kUSD car without affecting your personal finances too much. It's still not a very good value for what you're paying out, but at least the negative impact on your future finances would be minimal. However, the same can not be said about the typical American youngster who goes for the fences with his first automobile purchase as a working adult. When a young person pays more for a car than what he absolutely needs, he suffers a significant financial setback. 5 figures in debt (on top of student loans) means that it will take even longer to create a nest egg for gaining flexibility and comfort in his finances. He'll be more bound to his paycheck, more afraid of being losing his job. It's the beginning of the negative spending/borrowing cycle that bounds him to his desk, like millions of other Americans. In every transaction, one person gains something and the other person gains something different. The more and better qualities you buy in a car, the more you give away financially. Does the trade make sense to you, in your personally situation in life? Are you a person who can afford that financial loss? Or alternatively, are you a person who derives immense pleasure from owning and driving a great vehicle? As with most things, it's not the what, but the why and how that truly matters. Ask not what you are buying, but why you are buying and how it is justified for you. An expensive car. If it makes sense for you, it makes sense for you. There's not much sense in arguing against that. But for most people, I'd say that it won't make sense.
[1] If you live in a city with great public transportation like New York, London, or Tokyo, then you honestly don't even need to own a car for transportation. Car sharing services or rental cars more than suffice.
Crossposted from my main blog
 
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Hyrule19001 Posts
On the other hand, spending $20,000 on a car that will last forever (I'm looking at you, Toyota Hilux) is worth the investment, I think.
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United States1719 Posts
If I were to spend more than 30k~40k USD for a car, it would be purely for the status factor. Status isn't everything, but it's certainly important for me. Don't need a car at the moment so haven't looked much into how much cars cost, but when I move in the next few months, I will need one, and I'm willing to shell out to buy a lexus/audi-type sedan.
To me, balancing finances with amenities is part of living a good, happy life, and I'm against skewing that balance towards either end of the spectrum.
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An average car (say Toyota Corolla) costs about USD 80k in my country.
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United States1719 Posts
^ why? south korea taxes import luxury cars like crazy but a corolla?
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On February 28 2012 02:24 theBALLS wrote:
An average car (say Toyota Corolla) costs about USD 80k in my country.
-_- That is insane lol. Over triple what it costs here in Canada. I wonder what an actual sporty car would cost over there? 250k?
And yeah I agree with the OP. You should buy a car that suites all of your needs in what you can afford, and first you should judge whether other forms of transportation are good enough for your needs. Really expensive cars, are for rich people lol.
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On February 28 2012 02:09 tofucake wrote:On the other hand, spending $20,000 on a car that will last forever (I'm looking at you, Toyota Hilux) is worth the investment, I think.
Thing is,the cars that will "last forever" have usually one of 2 downsides.
They either cost a lot of money(new ones),or they are quite old(like the Toyota Hilux that you linked) and usually spend a lot of gas.
For instance this is the car that I drive + Show Spoiler +(Mitsubishi Pajero).
I got the car from my dad when I got my license.This thing is virtually indestructible.
He bought it when I was born(20 years ago),it has almost 450 k kilometers under its wheels,was in a war ,has gone through some heavy off road abuse and still shows no signs of breaking down(My mother for instance drives a Kia Sorento,about 3 years old now,the car was at the repair shop quite a few times the last 2 years because of the most random problems,my car was at the shop for 3 things as far as I can remember:tire exchange,registration checkup and a rusty muffler after 17 years)
The thing is it gulps up about 12 liters per 100 and the car isn't ofc the prettiest thing on the street.
I drive it only out of necessity so yea,really good cars always cost one way or the other:D
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If you really drive the car just for transportation sake, then yes OP is right.
But I want my car to be nice, I want to drive a nice car that I will enjoy driving because I like driving. I am young and I want sporty vehicle that I can sometimes show off to friends. Life is not all about this but certainly, its a huge enjoyment.
And when young person can afford a car as such, why not? I don't have a debt, I paid for all my tuition, and I have saved up enough money to buy a car I want the moment I graduate (which is next april). I am going to lease either Audi or BMW for 3 years, or buy newest Sonata or Genesis Coupe, whatever fits my need. I don't necessarily need a car since I take subway to work, but why not? Car is convenient for dates and such. I am sick of taking subway and bus rides to go for eateries and such.
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Don't get a car unless you have a secure job. Try commute if possible or car pool. Car is more than just a car, it is a money sink. There are a lot of retards who like to showboat. They buy an expensive car like BMW, Lexus, Benz etc.. just to show off or impress chicks. In the end they are in shit load of debt and pay shit load of insurance + premium gas and shit.
People need to realize it is not just about owning buying a car, it is about all the shit that comes with the car, the insurance, the gas, the maintenance etc... it is very expensive. Don't be like those retards who buy to impress and who buy in impulse.
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On February 28 2012 02:24 theBALLS wrote:
An average car (say Toyota Corolla) costs about USD 80k in my country.
A large portion of that 80k is all tax. If your country can't produce the parts locally, the price will be ridiculously high like that.
In response to the OP, no safety of the vehicle can be better that the driver. Even if you drive a tank, if the driver is dumb, you'll still have a higher chance of dying and a smart user of a toyota corolla. If safety is the number priority on the road, the decisions you make will be much more important than how much impact your vehicle can withstand.
Not everyone on the road is thinking the same way you are, so always be aware what other people are doing. It doesn't matter if you're "correct" according to the traffic laws if you turn into a pulp afterwards. I feel like driving a truck "just in case"/ "you never know" is the same mindset as carrying a gun around because "bad guys can come to kill my family any moment"
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I agree. When I was 18 I bought a brand new 2009 corolla with 22 miles on it. I put 5000 down and soaked up the rest over a 6 year loan. It's embarrassing to think about it. I'm almost done paying it off, but I now have 125000 miles on it and I want another car. I should have bought crappy cars and saved up for a nice car later.
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Cars also always lose value. My dad hates buying cars because of that. He sees everything as an investment being the bussines man that he is ^^ Anyway, I completely agree. Well written again, love your blogs.
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Best deal is tu purchased a recent preowned : 2008 and up with 20k miles or something like that. This way, the previous owner will pay 50% and more of the value of the vehicle while letting you enjoy 75% of the actual usage of the car over the years.
when you purchase a brand new car, you lose 10 to 20% of the value as soon as you step on the street with the car...
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Why would you pick a big heavy car that feels 'safer' if the crash test ratings are lower than say, a Civic which has a 5 star safety rating, or better yet a Volvo, those things are the safest cars in the world, you don't need to get a big hunkering SUV for it to be saf
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If you are asking why people like these tertiary values in cars. Simply put, girls like nice cars...
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United States1719 Posts
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I have a pretty nice car, I spent a lot of money on it, I feel like it was a good purchase because I spend about 30 minutes driving in to work in the morning and about 30 minutes driving home at the end of the day, 5 days a week. Sometimes I think about how I could have got a cheaper car for 1/3 the price. But honestly every time I get into the driver's seat I actually feel pleasure. That's gotta be worth something.
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At some point, getting the best value has to cross with something you're going to be happy with clunking down $10, 15 or 20k on. A hybrid may be enticing because of the gas mileage. However, I would sooner slam my dick in a car door before driving one of these
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jJ10R.jpg)
If you're taking a 5 year loan, is saving $3-4 grand that big of a deal if it means getting something you're meh about vs something that you actually want to drive every day?
I dunno, I am all about value (aside: new cars are just stupid in general) but your own tastes and preferences have to come into play. Spending five figures and going into debt on something you don't care for much makes little sense. Taste and value have to meet at some point.
If going on the high end of your budget means a $5,000 difference between the cheaper option in the long term cost, is it really that much of a difference over a five year loan if it means you will be more happy?
I guess the definition of young person is really what the conversation is dependent on. My first nice car, I probably paid a bit too much. But at the same time, that was dumb because I paid cash instead of taking a loan while I was working ft and going to school ft. This car, which I bought last year at 25, I would still be considered a young person. It was definitely at the upper bounds of my budget, but it also was still within range, made me happy, and significantly boosts your credit score in the long run.
On February 28 2012 04:49 Zlasher wrote:
Why would you pick a big heavy car that feels 'safer' if the crash test ratings are lower than say, a Civic which has a 5 star safety rating, or better yet a Volvo, those things are the safest cars in the world, you don't need to get a big hunkering SUV for it to be saf
Yeah I don't get this at all. Volvos are pretty much safety bubbles with wheels.
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I disagree with this paragraph:
"It's honestly rather simple. Because I personally value my safety over pure economy of transportation, I choose to drive a firmly built, rigid, heavy vehicle. These tend to be a bit more expensive than the typical Asian super-mileage cars, but to me, the increased safety is worth the money. But on the other hand, I don't spend more money than this to attain the more peripheral benefits of a car."
The only thing you really need to be scared of in smaller cars is bigger cars. I know that it isn't very realistic but if everyone where to have smaller cars then you would no longer need a bigger car to be safe. It just kinda pisses me off when a mom gets her airhead 16yo daughter a giant suburban so that she can be "safe", when in reality all that she is doing is putting everyone else on the road (in more "dangerous" cars) at risk.
Personally I ride a motorcycle or use public transportation. Motorcycles are great, you can get a really nice motorcycle for less than $5,000 and you save so much money on gas/insurance. Yes, they are not very safe but what's the point of living without a little bit of risk  Plus they're just so much fun I find them to be completely worth the risk. I've been in a crash and I still ride.
EDIT: I checked out the main blog. The piece you wrote about sleep was so true. My sleep cycle is so f-ed up. ._.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On February 28 2012 02:14 rotinegg wrote:
If I were to spend more than 30k~40k USD for a car, it would be purely for the status factor. Status isn't everything, but it's certainly important for me. Don't need a car at the moment so haven't looked much into how much cars cost, but when I move in the next few months, I will need one, and I'm willing to shell out to buy a lexus/audi-type sedan.
To me, balancing finances with amenities is part of living a good, happy life, and I'm against skewing that balance towards either end of the spectrum.
ya, works if you're able to afford it 
(and I afford it, I mean [i]really[i] afford it in the sense that the money is almost trivial to you)
On February 28 2012 02:58 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:09 tofucake wrote:On the other hand, spending $20,000 on a car that will last forever (I'm looking at you, Toyota Hilux) is worth the investment, I think. Thing is,the cars that will "last forever" have usually one of 2 downsides. They either cost a lot of money(new ones),or they are quite old(like the Toyota Hilux that you linked) and usually spend a lot of gas. For instance this is the car that I drive + Show Spoiler +(Mitsubishi Pajero). I got the car from my dad when I got my license.This thing is virtually indestructible. He bought it when I was born(20 years ago),it has almost 450 k kilometers under its wheels,was in a war ,has gone through some heavy off road abuse and still shows no signs of breaking down(My mother for instance drives a Kia Sorento,about 3 years old now,the car was at the repair shop quite a few times the last 2 years because of the most random problems,my car was at the shop for 3 things as far as I can remember:tire exchange,registration checkup and a rusty muffler after 17 years) The thing is it gulps up about 12 liters per 100 and the car isn't ofc the prettiest thing on the street. I drive it only out of necessity so yea,really good cars always cost one way or the other:D
Hilariously awesome! 
On February 28 2012 03:27 Tryndamere wrote:
Don't get a car unless you have a secure job. Try commute if possible or car pool. Car is more than just a car, it is a money sink. There are a lot of retards who like to showboat. They buy an expensive car like BMW, Lexus, Benz etc.. just to show off or impress chicks. In the end they are in shit load of debt and pay shit load of insurance + premium gas and shit.
People need to realize it is not just about owning buying a car, it is about all the shit that comes with the car, the insurance, the gas, the maintenance etc... it is very expensive. Don't be like those retards who buy to impress and who buy in impulse.
So true, so true.
On February 28 2012 05:14 DanLee wrote:
If you are asking why people like these tertiary values in cars. Simply put, girls like nice cars...
Do they like nice cars? Or do they like the rich folks driving the nice cars? ^^
On February 28 2012 06:20 ziggurat wrote:
I have a pretty nice car, I spent a lot of money on it, I feel like it was a good purchase because I spend about 30 minutes driving in to work in the morning and about 30 minutes driving home at the end of the day, 5 days a week. Sometimes I think about how I could have got a cheaper car for 1/3 the price. But honestly every time I get into the driver's seat I actually feel pleasure. That's gotta be worth something.
Definitely worth something. But that something should make sense for the particular person's financial status.
On February 28 2012 08:33 slam wrote:I disagree with this paragraph: "It's honestly rather simple. Because I personally value my safety over pure economy of transportation, I choose to drive a firmly built, rigid, heavy vehicle. These tend to be a bit more expensive than the typical Asian super-mileage cars, but to me, the increased safety is worth the money. But on the other hand, I don't spend more money than this to attain the more peripheral benefits of a car." The only thing you really need to be scared of in smaller cars is bigger cars. I know that it isn't very realistic but if everyone where to have smaller cars then you would no longer need a bigger car to be safe. It just kinda pisses me off when a mom gets her airhead 16yo daughter a giant suburban so that she can be "safe", when in reality all that she is doing is putting everyone else on the road (in more "dangerous" cars) at risk. Personally I ride a motorcycle or use public transportation. Motorcycles are great, you can get a really nice motorcycle for less than $5,000 and you save so much money on gas/insurance. Yes, they are not very safe but what's the point of living without a little bit of risk Plus they're just so much fun I find them to be completely worth the risk. I've been in a crash and I still ride. EDIT: I checked out the main blog. The piece you wrote about sleep was so true. My sleep cycle is so f-ed up. ._.
Definitely not denying that it's a selfish choice. But selfish choices reign in a selfish world 
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
ACtually one thing to consider very seriously is whether your own justifications for buying a somewhat expensive car is truly justified with your own logic, or you're just trying to force a justification to avoid/resolve post-purchase cognitive dissonance.
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Until I'm loaded cars will be purely for getting from point A to point B successfully. Also I always enjoy your blogs Haji, gives me something different from what I usually see in TL. So ty
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On February 28 2012 17:25 Divinek wrote:
Until I'm loaded cars will be purely for getting from point A to point B successfully. Also I always enjoy your blogs Haji, gives me something different from what I usually see in TL. So ty
Agreed. I drive a 10 year old car that was originally bought by my family. I want to drive it for at least another 5 years, if not longer.
ALso, thanks for the compliment
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On February 28 2012 02:50 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:24 theBALLS wrote:
An average car (say Toyota Corolla) costs about USD 80k in my country. -_- That is insane lol. Over triple what it costs here in Canada. I wonder what an actual sporty car would cost over there? 250k? And yeah I agree with the OP. You should buy a car that suites all of your needs in what you can afford, and first you should judge whether other forms of transportation are good enough for your needs. Really expensive cars, are for rich people lol.
An higher end SLK or something in that range costs about USD300,000.
It's insane.
EDIT: Audi R8 about 500K
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On February 28 2012 17:42 theBALLS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:50 Mementoss wrote:On February 28 2012 02:24 theBALLS wrote:
An average car (say Toyota Corolla) costs about USD 80k in my country. -_- That is insane lol. Over triple what it costs here in Canada. I wonder what an actual sporty car would cost over there? 250k? And yeah I agree with the OP. You should buy a car that suites all of your needs in what you can afford, and first you should judge whether other forms of transportation are good enough for your needs. Really expensive cars, are for rich people lol. An higher end SLK or something in that range costs about USD300,000. It's insane. EDIT: Audi R8 about 500K
what the... jesus.
What would happen if you bought a SLK (around 100k in the states) and imported it? Would you still get taxed to the balls? (no pun intended, lol)
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Osaka27130 Posts
For me the stage of life is more important than just the financial question, although they do go hand in hand.
All three of my best friends out of high school started off their life anywhere from 4k to 17k in debt because they wanted to buy a car. Not a crippling sum now, but then? Not only did it ruin the financially because of their low wages, they also missed out on doing things like travel and events because of how bound they were to their car. My one friend had never been on an airplane until he was 24! In addition, it set them up with some really poor money habits, where they saw loans as the norm rather than saving.
Having a car is necessary for most people but the later you can get away with making a substantial investment in one the better. It automatically sets you back so much so much money and the earlier you buy the greater percentage of your wage it consumes.
My old man advice? Honestly, buy in cash. That. Is when you know you are truly read for the car. From then on, everything you were saving per month to buy the car can be transfered to the monthly expences, and you aren't faving the double burden of expences plus car payment. Otherwise by the time you pay it off, you feel like you have just bought an old car.
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On February 28 2012 18:14 Manifesto7 wrote:
My old man advice? Honestly, buy in cash.
Eh, but then you lose out on the ability to build your credit score, the flexibility of doing different stuff with your money (obviously dependant on what rate you get; a 0.9 you'd be nuts to go cash) and it hampers your buying power. The car you can get for $10k cash is gonna have far more usage than one you can get for $15k with $10 down
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Mani, Fwiw I totally agree with you about the "buy in cash" aspect.
Loans will confuse the financial sense that we all have ><
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Here a Corolla costs 45k USD, down to only ABS and frontal airbags for safety. Financing is around 2% monthly rate, with no lease option (the so called "leasing" is a trick to dodge taxes and facilitate recovery of the vehicle in case of default)
You wouldn't be hard pressed to find someone who makes 60k USD/year buying a new one every couple of years. That way the prices and rates won't ever fall, Brazil is the nightmare of whoever likes both cars and financial discipline.
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Not quite, actually BRL is so appreciated that many sectors of the economy have complained and the treasury has immense USD reserves (350bi USD according to the most recent source I could find)
I do blame taxes, but mostly the absurd demand because of social status. For example, a Honda City (compact sedan) made in Brazil sells for 35k USD here, but for 20k USD in Mexico or Argentina
Honda and Toyota sell very overpriced cars, the four big local manufacturers (VW, Ford, Fiat and Chevrolet) sell poorly made and still overpriced cars, the koreans used to be the gold standard of cost/benefit (a Hyundai Azera sold for less than that Corolla) but now they built brand recognition are the most overpriced of them all, and the chinese (JAC, Lifan and half a dozen other brands) have been arriving to vie for their place.
Almost all cars sold here are fuel flexible but there's no government incentive to use ethanol, the production is seasonal and limited (also competes with sugar) so It's very rarely cost effective against gasoline, whoever uses it is because gives a small power boost or wants to be ecological.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SY2HB.jpg)
