• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:58
CEST 15:58
KST 22:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 292Serral wins Maestros of the Game 240ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ? Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026
Tourneys
Premium Leather Clothing Brand GSL CK #5 Race War WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3968 users

Just Patch the Live Servers

Blogs > Jermstuddog
Post a Reply
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
February 15 2012 01:56 GMT
#1
So after reading qxc's blog on how the ghost change is the wrong change, I was inspired to write my own matching blog about the Mutalisk change and why I feel it is equally bad.

I wrote my blog entry, it is long and informative, but it will never be posted. When I sat back and thought about it, I found a more important talking point to bring to TL.

Why do we have a Patch Test Server in StarCraft 2?

Wouldn't it be easier to force the next patch upon the ladder and offer up Blizzard approved unit templates for old patch maps?

Wouldn't that be a better solution in general?

Let me explain.

Say Blizzard really likes their ideas for 1.4.3 and they really want to test them out RIGHT NOW. They release 1.4.3 tonight on the live servers. MLG and assembly along with countless online tournaments are scheduled for later this week/weekend and you just screwed over the whole game balance and the players in those tournaments now have to play stage matches with 0 chance to practice with the new changes.

BUT, what if Blizzard also releases a droppable template that adjusts all unit stats to match the previous patch. Now, with only days to spare, tournaments can drop the 1.4.2 unit template into their map and declare "PLAYERS/VIEWERS BEWARE: OUR TOURNAMENT WILL BE RUNNING ON PATCH 1.4.2, NOT THE CURRENT VERSION!"

This would have a few major effects.

Firstly, Blizzard would get meaningful testing on new patches. If everybody who plays the regular ladder HAS to play the new patch, you will get thousands more games played per hour than you ever got in your ghost-town of a patch server.

Secondly, Blizzard gets a lot more feedback. StarCraft is a social game. The first place we would go to complain about the new patch is the community sites, much like I am doing now to complain about this situation. In order to find the best examples of how their change is affecting the game, they would have to look no further than www.teamliquid.net.

Finally, Blizzard wouldn't have to tip-toe around major events in their patch scheduling. If they release a workable unit template that reverts back to the last patch, the burden of patch-timing falls to the tournaments, not Blizzard itself. If they want to play on the old patch because they're unsure of some of the newer changes, they can. If they want to fully embrace the new changes, they can do that too. So long as Blizzard does the legwork of saving their previously done work, they haven't caused themselves any further headaches while simultaneously reducing headaches for everybody else involved, or at worst, keeping them the same.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Is 25 damage snipes too harsh of a nerf? Will we ever know until we actually play with it?

Will the +2 range upgrade completely negate Mutalisks in ZvP? We'll have to play it to find out.

Everything we say about an upcoming change is build on nothing but preconceived notions until we play with the game after those changes have been implemented. Unfortunately, even qxc's post amounts to little more than whining about an untested change.

When it comes down to it, the only people given a chance to even play on the patch server are those in North America. Most of those people don't even know about the test realm, let alone how to get set up and log in. Even worse, those people who you really want to play on it (the pros) won't touch it because it does nothing to help them win that next tournament coming up. At least if it were pushed on all the realms, we would typically see the pros play the new patches while they are streaming. Now Blizzard can get their target testers as well as make everybody feel important in the evolution of the game since we have all become contributing members.

TLDR: Test Realms work in MMOs, but seem REALLY out of place in a game like SC2

As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 02:16:42
February 15 2012 02:16 GMT
#2
I think that would be really confusing (and there will also be a lot of bad feedback, bronze terran claiming that it makes T3 zerg OP vs. them etc.)

I do like the idea of blizzard releasing maps of future patches (when 1.4.2 is on ladder, have a custom map for 1.4.3) instead of having a test realm.
Jaedong :3
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 02:30 GMT
#3
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
February 15 2012 02:35 GMT
#4
On February 15 2012 11:30 Mobius_1 wrote:
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).


what does lan have to do with this? seems any time theres any problem at all, people resort to asking for lan
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 02:40 GMT
#5
On February 15 2012 11:35 johnnywup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:30 Mobius_1 wrote:
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).


what does lan have to do with this? seems any time theres any problem at all, people resort to asking for lan


Because with LAN tournaments can just run off LAN on an old patch and not be subject to Blizzard servers, which was a key point of his blog.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
ghosthunter
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
February 15 2012 02:43 GMT
#6
Tournaments are already run in custom games, which exist on Battle.net in full functionality. LAN would require using custom maps just as the online mode would. Adding LAN does not add anything to this discussion.

You enter a slippery slope dilemma when you start divorcing tournaments from the current patch cycle, because at that point who's to say that Patch 1.2 is the best patch and will be used in all tournaments from now on? There could be a valid argument for why XYZ is the best patch, but creating a norm of separating the tournaments from the general population would be a problem.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 04:04:19
February 15 2012 04:01 GMT
#7
At no point did I suggest that it be the norm that tournaments separate themselves from the current patch.

I am simply stating that this allows for tournaments to run on a more stable and known patch under extenuating circumstances.

Many tournaments have already been adversely affected by patch timings in the past year, including GSL finals that happened 1 day after a new patch.

I would assume the vast majority of tournaments would stay with the current patch, but in the case that the timing is inconvenient, a tournament would then have the choice to stick with a slightly dated version of the game for a few days or weeks to finish up their current business rather than changing patches mid swing.

Also, this was only one of the several benefits that patching the live servers would bring.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 05:20 GMT
#8
Dear Sirs of the Suggestions Theorycrafting Council,

I would like to take this opportunity to elaborate on my previously post, by which I still stand, but would like to take a more proactive attitude in its advocacy.

One of the major complaints in the original blog post was the patching process upsetting game flow and mechanics and balance strongly to affect tournament play and enjoyment for viewers, and that a system whereby tournaments could use an older version of the game to avoid overly volatile environments and give our players the time to find new strategies, tactics and playstyles better suited to the new patch to provide more entertaining and worthwhile games.

This, I believe, is very similar to what is offered by a lot of software that has a stable release and a beta release, and is prevalent in the gaming world as well, such as represented by Dota Allstars maintaining two releases (at least back when I played), and a lot of other software and websites which allowed users to not be subject forcefully to a new change or at least have a grace period to slowly switch to newer versions.

While the PTR is supposed to fulfill this function, it's current implementation is somewhat limited, and does not incentivise/force players to play on it, therefore limiting the data that Blizzard can gather from it, and correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt top progamers are playing on it with earnest during Test Periods. The OP's solution is to just patch straightaway, but give the retail game the ability to down-patch or stay unpatched so that it can make tournaments run smoother. My argument is that the easiest way to accomplish that is to implement LAN functionality and add in discrete patches that can be applied at the gamer's discretion, or a tool by Blizzard (or a 3rd party) that allows down-patching, given that SC2 already stores previous patches' data in its archives, as demonstrated by its behaviour when viewing replays from older patches.

Moreover, this will also separate tournaments from Blizzard's server downtime, either planned or unplanned, reduce lag, and so on and so forth, as has been discussed by other LAN discussions.

I will now address questions and concerns from the floor.

"You enter a slippery slope dilemma when you start divorcing tournaments from the current patch cycle, because at that point who's to say that Patch 1.2 is the best patch and will be used in all tournaments from now on? There could be a valid argument for why XYZ is the best patch, but creating a norm of separating the tournaments from the general population would be a problem."

Ah yes. An interesting point, sir. However, I'd like to argue that this is prevalent in many other competitive games as well, and should not present a problem for Starcraft 2. In most FPSes, public games are hosted with a lot of players and with all weapons allowed and with perks/killstreak/bonuses enabled where applicable, whereas competitions often ban things and have a much smaller game size. This alone means the experience of a public game and a tournament game are very very different. In RTSes, I do not believe it matters as much either, and they already use different maps to the ladder pool, and MBC once modified WC3 stats to encourage Undead players (though that went badly in the end).

But this is all just theorycrafting, as Blizzard will not give Starcraft 2 LAN due to piracy concerns. I rest my case.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
Gargoyal
Profile Joined September 2011
United States3 Posts
February 15 2012 15:41 GMT
#9
I think there is another solution that another company (Riot) has that is more practical. Tournament Realms. This would allow Blizz to push patches live and get the required data on balance concerns, but also allow there to be a place that still has the balance, timing, ect that the pros have been working to compete against/with.

The only concern is that there will be either less or to many people to make this practical. If there are too many people, then the live servers become devoid of the pros/meaningful competition after a certain level. If there are too few people, then it doesn't make for good practice scene (outside of playing against friends/team mates). One solutions is they could give out passes to people who are confirmed to be competing in events within a certain time frame, then reset the accounts after said event. The events would also use the tournament realm, so there could even be better stability than the live servers.

Just my thoughts.
A Champion can spend months, even years, training for that one moment.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
11:00
GSL CK #5 - Day 2
Armani vs ZounLIVE!
Ryung 358
Classic173
herO (SOOP)145
CranKy Ducklings SOOP134
Maru118
SHIN 116
ByuN (SOOP)78
Rogue72
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 358
LamboSC2 357
Classic 173
herO (SOOP) 145
Maru 118
SHIN 116
ByuN (SOOP) 78
Rogue 72
Rex 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30543
Bisu 2907
Rain 2633
actioN 1739
Jaedong 1240
Horang2 863
Zeus 729
Shuttle 713
Mini 686
EffOrt 596
[ Show more ]
BeSt 446
firebathero 435
Soulkey 374
ggaemo 364
Hyuk 339
Light 324
Stork 257
Larva 236
Snow 212
Soma 170
Rush 120
Pusan 85
[sc1f]eonzerg 68
Sharp 66
Free 60
Killer 56
ToSsGirL 46
Hyun 42
soO 38
sorry 35
910 34
scan(afreeca) 32
Terrorterran 25
Movie 20
JYJ 20
Bale 19
Aegong 17
yabsab 16
HiyA 15
Hm[arnc] 14
GoRush 13
Sexy 12
Yoon 11
Shine 9
IntoTheRainbow 8
Icarus 7
Dota 2
qojqva1011
XaKoH 728
XcaliburYe687
Counter-Strike
byalli288
Other Games
hiko654
Lowko456
B2W.Neo439
crisheroes316
Liquid`VortiX160
Hui .137
Livibee61
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1446
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1357
Other Games
BasetradeTV154
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2840
• TFBlade970
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 2m
Replay Cast
10h 2m
WardiTV Weekly
21h 2m
The PondCast
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
IPSL
5 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.