• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:24
CEST 04:24
KST 11:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call7[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!14Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week0Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BW General Discussion Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History
Tourneys
Toronto invitational lan 22 august [ASL22] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2714 users

Just Patch the Live Servers

Blogs > Jermstuddog
Post a Reply
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
February 15 2012 01:56 GMT
#1
So after reading qxc's blog on how the ghost change is the wrong change, I was inspired to write my own matching blog about the Mutalisk change and why I feel it is equally bad.

I wrote my blog entry, it is long and informative, but it will never be posted. When I sat back and thought about it, I found a more important talking point to bring to TL.

Why do we have a Patch Test Server in StarCraft 2?

Wouldn't it be easier to force the next patch upon the ladder and offer up Blizzard approved unit templates for old patch maps?

Wouldn't that be a better solution in general?

Let me explain.

Say Blizzard really likes their ideas for 1.4.3 and they really want to test them out RIGHT NOW. They release 1.4.3 tonight on the live servers. MLG and assembly along with countless online tournaments are scheduled for later this week/weekend and you just screwed over the whole game balance and the players in those tournaments now have to play stage matches with 0 chance to practice with the new changes.

BUT, what if Blizzard also releases a droppable template that adjusts all unit stats to match the previous patch. Now, with only days to spare, tournaments can drop the 1.4.2 unit template into their map and declare "PLAYERS/VIEWERS BEWARE: OUR TOURNAMENT WILL BE RUNNING ON PATCH 1.4.2, NOT THE CURRENT VERSION!"

This would have a few major effects.

Firstly, Blizzard would get meaningful testing on new patches. If everybody who plays the regular ladder HAS to play the new patch, you will get thousands more games played per hour than you ever got in your ghost-town of a patch server.

Secondly, Blizzard gets a lot more feedback. StarCraft is a social game. The first place we would go to complain about the new patch is the community sites, much like I am doing now to complain about this situation. In order to find the best examples of how their change is affecting the game, they would have to look no further than www.teamliquid.net.

Finally, Blizzard wouldn't have to tip-toe around major events in their patch scheduling. If they release a workable unit template that reverts back to the last patch, the burden of patch-timing falls to the tournaments, not Blizzard itself. If they want to play on the old patch because they're unsure of some of the newer changes, they can. If they want to fully embrace the new changes, they can do that too. So long as Blizzard does the legwork of saving their previously done work, they haven't caused themselves any further headaches while simultaneously reducing headaches for everybody else involved, or at worst, keeping them the same.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Is 25 damage snipes too harsh of a nerf? Will we ever know until we actually play with it?

Will the +2 range upgrade completely negate Mutalisks in ZvP? We'll have to play it to find out.

Everything we say about an upcoming change is build on nothing but preconceived notions until we play with the game after those changes have been implemented. Unfortunately, even qxc's post amounts to little more than whining about an untested change.

When it comes down to it, the only people given a chance to even play on the patch server are those in North America. Most of those people don't even know about the test realm, let alone how to get set up and log in. Even worse, those people who you really want to play on it (the pros) won't touch it because it does nothing to help them win that next tournament coming up. At least if it were pushed on all the realms, we would typically see the pros play the new patches while they are streaming. Now Blizzard can get their target testers as well as make everybody feel important in the evolution of the game since we have all become contributing members.

TLDR: Test Realms work in MMOs, but seem REALLY out of place in a game like SC2

As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 02:16:42
February 15 2012 02:16 GMT
#2
I think that would be really confusing (and there will also be a lot of bad feedback, bronze terran claiming that it makes T3 zerg OP vs. them etc.)

I do like the idea of blizzard releasing maps of future patches (when 1.4.2 is on ladder, have a custom map for 1.4.3) instead of having a test realm.
Jaedong :3
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 02:30 GMT
#3
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
February 15 2012 02:35 GMT
#4
On February 15 2012 11:30 Mobius_1 wrote:
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).


what does lan have to do with this? seems any time theres any problem at all, people resort to asking for lan
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 02:40 GMT
#5
On February 15 2012 11:35 johnnywup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 15 2012 11:30 Mobius_1 wrote:
Or, you know, just add LAN.

But your suggestion is actually a good one for tournaments, there were some crazy PvPs after the Immortal range buff in the GSL that turned out to not be so good (but was hilarious indeed).


what does lan have to do with this? seems any time theres any problem at all, people resort to asking for lan


Because with LAN tournaments can just run off LAN on an old patch and not be subject to Blizzard servers, which was a key point of his blog.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
ghosthunter
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
February 15 2012 02:43 GMT
#6
Tournaments are already run in custom games, which exist on Battle.net in full functionality. LAN would require using custom maps just as the online mode would. Adding LAN does not add anything to this discussion.

You enter a slippery slope dilemma when you start divorcing tournaments from the current patch cycle, because at that point who's to say that Patch 1.2 is the best patch and will be used in all tournaments from now on? There could be a valid argument for why XYZ is the best patch, but creating a norm of separating the tournaments from the general population would be a problem.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-15 04:04:19
February 15 2012 04:01 GMT
#7
At no point did I suggest that it be the norm that tournaments separate themselves from the current patch.

I am simply stating that this allows for tournaments to run on a more stable and known patch under extenuating circumstances.

Many tournaments have already been adversely affected by patch timings in the past year, including GSL finals that happened 1 day after a new patch.

I would assume the vast majority of tournaments would stay with the current patch, but in the case that the timing is inconvenient, a tournament would then have the choice to stick with a slightly dated version of the game for a few days or weeks to finish up their current business rather than changing patches mid swing.

Also, this was only one of the several benefits that patching the live servers would bring.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
February 15 2012 05:20 GMT
#8
Dear Sirs of the Suggestions Theorycrafting Council,

I would like to take this opportunity to elaborate on my previously post, by which I still stand, but would like to take a more proactive attitude in its advocacy.

One of the major complaints in the original blog post was the patching process upsetting game flow and mechanics and balance strongly to affect tournament play and enjoyment for viewers, and that a system whereby tournaments could use an older version of the game to avoid overly volatile environments and give our players the time to find new strategies, tactics and playstyles better suited to the new patch to provide more entertaining and worthwhile games.

This, I believe, is very similar to what is offered by a lot of software that has a stable release and a beta release, and is prevalent in the gaming world as well, such as represented by Dota Allstars maintaining two releases (at least back when I played), and a lot of other software and websites which allowed users to not be subject forcefully to a new change or at least have a grace period to slowly switch to newer versions.

While the PTR is supposed to fulfill this function, it's current implementation is somewhat limited, and does not incentivise/force players to play on it, therefore limiting the data that Blizzard can gather from it, and correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt top progamers are playing on it with earnest during Test Periods. The OP's solution is to just patch straightaway, but give the retail game the ability to down-patch or stay unpatched so that it can make tournaments run smoother. My argument is that the easiest way to accomplish that is to implement LAN functionality and add in discrete patches that can be applied at the gamer's discretion, or a tool by Blizzard (or a 3rd party) that allows down-patching, given that SC2 already stores previous patches' data in its archives, as demonstrated by its behaviour when viewing replays from older patches.

Moreover, this will also separate tournaments from Blizzard's server downtime, either planned or unplanned, reduce lag, and so on and so forth, as has been discussed by other LAN discussions.

I will now address questions and concerns from the floor.

"You enter a slippery slope dilemma when you start divorcing tournaments from the current patch cycle, because at that point who's to say that Patch 1.2 is the best patch and will be used in all tournaments from now on? There could be a valid argument for why XYZ is the best patch, but creating a norm of separating the tournaments from the general population would be a problem."

Ah yes. An interesting point, sir. However, I'd like to argue that this is prevalent in many other competitive games as well, and should not present a problem for Starcraft 2. In most FPSes, public games are hosted with a lot of players and with all weapons allowed and with perks/killstreak/bonuses enabled where applicable, whereas competitions often ban things and have a much smaller game size. This alone means the experience of a public game and a tournament game are very very different. In RTSes, I do not believe it matters as much either, and they already use different maps to the ladder pool, and MBC once modified WC3 stats to encourage Undead players (though that went badly in the end).

But this is all just theorycrafting, as Blizzard will not give Starcraft 2 LAN due to piracy concerns. I rest my case.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
Gargoyal
Profile Joined September 2011
United States3 Posts
February 15 2012 15:41 GMT
#9
I think there is another solution that another company (Riot) has that is more practical. Tournament Realms. This would allow Blizz to push patches live and get the required data on balance concerns, but also allow there to be a place that still has the balance, timing, ect that the pros have been working to compete against/with.

The only concern is that there will be either less or to many people to make this practical. If there are too many people, then the live servers become devoid of the pros/meaningful competition after a certain level. If there are too few people, then it doesn't make for good practice scene (outside of playing against friends/team mates). One solutions is they could give out passes to people who are confirmed to be competing in events within a certain time frame, then reset the accounts after said event. The events would also use the tournament realm, so there could even be better stability than the live servers.

Just my thoughts.
A Champion can spend months, even years, training for that one moment.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 107
CosmosSc2 46
FoxeR 43
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2922
GuemChi 1750
Terrorterran 17
Bale 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever514
NeuroSwarm187
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv505
taco 297
minikerr93
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox602
Mew2King152
Other Games
JimRising 595
C9.Mang0412
Day[9].tv390
WinterStarcraft220
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 107
• davetesta26
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki12
• RayReign 11
• Light_VIP 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21573
Other Games
• Scarra1677
• Day9tv390
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
7h 37m
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
8h 37m
PiGosaur Cup
21h 37m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 7h
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
1d 21h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-24
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.