EPT
I need some new TvZ openers!
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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teamamerica
United States958 Posts
 I just know whenever I go blue flame + bio I build 6 hellions and lift factory. My original rax is researching stim, I add a rax onto the reactor, have a 3rd rax, and the factory builds its own tech lab and researches blue flame. Gives you a big ball of stim bio + ~8 blue flame hellions. Try to use maruders to tank for marines and micro your hellions around them all. Go immeditaly with blue flame, because if the Zerg just sees 6 hellions in front of base they can't kill that with lings and so until you have blue flame it just looks like a reactor hellion expo. Btw all these builds are off standard reactor hellion expo. Reactor hellion into 10 minute push is pretty useless now, as you've discovered. Sometimes if you hit at like 7:30 you can catch a Zerg offgaurd but that's more luck and he makes one more round of ling and you just sacrificed any map control for a few minutes. Beyond the timings listed above there's the fast 3 oc build (reactor hellion into fast 3oc, one in base until you're safe claiming the 3rd). That sets you up for a macro game (just don't delay tanks cause you're relying on them to hold roach baneling attacks). Keep on macro and you have a huge army pretty fast. I honestly don't know what's best after you have 3 base - I just normally do a push out around 15 minutes with 2/1 and 1/0 for tanks and take my 4th while hitting the zergs 3rd and 4th bases, but I'm pretty bad T_T. | ||
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
2 rax into expand. The 2 rax allows you to get up fast defenses, and pressure the zerg, and allows you to take a expansion pretty safely. Reaper expand. If you think your micro is subpar, this is a great way to practice it to make it better. This allows you to scout better and the very threat of reapers prompts a reaction from most zergs. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:02 teamamerica wrote: Reactor hellion into bio-hellion play let's you put on a decent amount of pressure. This is either through reactor-hellion+stim attacks, reactor + marine elevators, or something like reactor hellion into blue flame + mm. None of these are designed to kill the Z so be ready to deal with whatever lair tech they're going (i.e. have turrets up in time for mutas). A single uncloaked banshee can put on some pressure + deny Z from taking their 3rd for a bit (esp on a map like Shattered Temple). I don't know the exact build for any of these I just know whenever I go blue flame + bio I build 6 hellions and lift factory. My original rax is researching stim, I add a rax onto the reactor, have a 3rd rax, and the factory builds its own tech lab and researches blue flame. Gives you a big ball of stim bio + ~8 blue flame hellions. Try to use maruders to tank for marines and micro your hellions around them all. Go immeditaly with blue flame, because if the Zerg just sees 6 hellions in front of base they can't kill that with lings and so until you have blue flame it just looks like a reactor hellion expo. Btw all these builds are off standard reactor hellion expo. Reactor hellion into 10 minute push is pretty useless now, as you've discovered. Sometimes if you hit at like 7:30 you can catch a Zerg offgaurd but that's more luck and he makes one more round of ling and you just sacrificed any map control for a few minutes. Beyond the timings listed above there's the fast 3 oc build (reactor hellion into fast 3oc, one in base until you're safe claiming the 3rd). That sets you up for a macro game (just don't delay tanks cause you're relying on them to hold roach baneling attacks). Keep on macro and you have a huge army pretty fast. I honestly don't know what's best after you have 3 base - I just normally do a push out around 15 minutes with 2/1 and 1/0 for tanks and take my 4th while hitting the zergs 3rd and 4th bases, but I'm pretty bad T_T. I tried doing a bio+blue flame attack against a zerg tonight but it was defended rather easily with some banes and spines. I hate how the Korean terrans make this match up look so easy when im struggling a ton lol. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:05 Bagration wrote: 11/11 proxy barracks into bunker rush. Obviously do not use this build more than 10% of the time, as it is just a cheese build. But I believe that every player should have the ability to cheese and execute it well, just to keep their opponents honest. 2 rax into expand. The 2 rax allows you to get up fast defenses, and pressure the zerg, and allows you to take a expansion pretty safely. Reaper expand. If you think your micro is subpar, this is a great way to practice it to make it better. This allows you to scout better and the very threat of reapers prompts a reaction from most zergs. I've heard that 2 rax is a pretty bad opener now because zergs will over-pull drones and shut it down completely and then you cannot put pressure on for a while since your tech is pretty far behind. Is this true? | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:09 IMoperator wrote: I've heard that 2 rax is a pretty bad opener now because zergs will over-pull drones and shut it down completely and then you cannot put pressure on for a while since your tech is pretty far behind. Is this true? I just get ling/bane all-ined right afterwards and i cant do anything. Trying to wall off natural does absolutely nothing and you dont have siege mode in time. | ||
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:09 IMoperator wrote: I've heard that 2 rax is a pretty bad opener now because zergs will over-pull drones and shut it down completely and then you cannot put pressure on for a while since your tech is pretty far behind. Is this true? It depends on a lot of variables, such as map, scouting, and the engagement itself. If you are going for the double proxy rax, it is definitely still viable, just need to pull a few workers (not all, just enough to get the bunkers up and tank a bit) and get bunkers up. For the 2 rax expand, it creates the threat of heavy marine pressure, which prevents droning. You will want to add bunkers after you expand. The latter strategy stops the zerg from droning so hard with the possibility of pressure, but you still get up an expansion reasonably fast. In this strategy, you are not trying to kill, just to disrupt mining/force lings so you can gain some economic ground. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:25 IMoperator wrote: So reactor hellion is still the go-to I suppose? Yes, it's the dominant build | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:40 IMoperator wrote: Hm, so what's a good transition out of the reactor hellions? I usually get 4 hellions and then lift the factory and build 2 more rax (1 on the reactor, and the original rax has techlab and researching stim) but I can't really push out 'til at least 10 minutes. Maybe earlier starport on the factory reactor for a double drop would be good? Guess I'm going to have to experiment with this stuff, thanks guys. You could try mech. You mentioned that your micro is not that great, and mech is less micro intensive than bio. There are quite a few good mech TvZ guides under SC2 Strategy. Mech is a pretty fun, stable strategy. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:56 Bagration wrote: You could try mech. You mentioned that your micro is not that great, and mech is less micro intensive than bio. There are quite a few good mech TvZ guides under SC2 Strategy. Mech is a pretty fun, stable strategy. Hm, I used to play mech but I switched to marine/tank because I really hated not being able to really pressure the zerg. Hellion runbys are ok on some maps, but drops are so much better. I also hated having to rely so much on thors for anti air vs. mutas and then hope you're prepared for the broodlord tech switch that was coming. My micro is pretty bad, but I still find marine tank to be easier in just the mobility sense. Idk I might give mech another try though  | ||
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Son of Gnome
United States777 Posts
There you go awesome macro build :D | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
On February 13 2012 14:40 IMoperator wrote: Hm, so what's a good transition out of the reactor hellions? I usually get 4 hellions and then lift the factory and build 2 more rax (1 on the reactor, and the original rax has techlab and researching stim) but I can't really push out 'til at least 10 minutes. Maybe earlier starport on the factory reactor for a double drop would be good? Guess I'm going to have to experiment with this stuff, thanks guys. I've been using an old build quite frequently that still works quite ok today that goes something like this - reactor hellion expo - get tech lab on barrack, stim, 2 hellions (don't over extend with them, use it to spot roach allins/fast thirds/deny creep if possible, though its not easy with just 2 hellions). After that, quickly build a barracks on the reactor and with the next 150 gas build starport, take 2nd gas and another reactor on factory, followed by switching and getting 2 medivacs. you can hit a nice 15 marine 9:15 drop timing. | ||
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