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so i turned on EG.Fear stream today hoping to catch some gosu dota action and all i got is this
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zaBI2.png)
The stream is Live and the music is playing. I do get ads from the stream and the worst part is: IT IS NOT LIVE. All there is is an overlay saying stream offline and 200 people watching it...
Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool. You still get money from ads while the stream is offline? wtf... Viewers tuning in the stream are provided with 0 content while they are, in a way, providing you ads revenue to support you.
Why cant you just turn off the stream like a normal streamer? WTF.... Please sirscoot, evoli, fix this.
edit: grammar spelling etc...
 
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Im sure it was a mistake. Why risk their report with earning .1 $ /h ?
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I completely agree,. this is blatant abuse. I don't want EG to be known as cheaters. Pls Fix.
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This is an obvious mistake. I don't watch Dota2 but I'm pretty sure this guy gets a good chunk of viewers. If he were to do this more often people would stop watching so this would hurt him way more than the peanuts he actually earns this way.
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There is absolutely no need for additional moderation on this, if users want to view this they will otherwise they will not come back because of this. Do you feel the same way about reruns or random vods playing? Stop trying to "regulate" the freedom of stream it's scary.
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Lol why so many complainers, the screenshots even says ''Click the follow button to see when I come back online''. Its obviously a mistake, no need for thread.
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Lol..................................
You know there is streamers that leave their streams on all day often just looking at nothing but their chair? I do.
Cmon seriously this is such a stupid complaint.
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On February 11 2012 23:17 peacenl wrote:
There is absolutely no need for additional moderation on this, if users want to view this they will otherwise they will not come back because of this. Do you feel the same way about reruns or random vods playing? Stop trying to "regulate" the freedom of stream it's scary.
I agree with this. if you dont like it, you are free to check out other streams. noones forcing you to watch that screen.
dont get so emotional about everything.
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On February 11 2012 22:36 NB wrote:so i turned on EG.Fear stream today hoping to catch some gosu dota action and all i got is this The stream is Live and the music is playing. I do get ads from the stream and the worst part is: IT IS NOT LIVE. All there is is an overlay saying stream not offline and 200 people watching it... Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool. You still get money from ads while the stream is offline? wtf... Viewers tuning in the stream are provided with 0 content while they are, i away, providing you ads revenue to support you. Why cant you just turn off the stream like a normal streamer? WTF.... Please sirscoot, evoli, fix this.
LOL EG raising their standarts a notch. I guess they're collecting money to poach yet another player.
User was warned for this post
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This is unacceptable, his stream will be removed if this continues.
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Why are people calling this a mistake? This is a blatant advertising attempt to reach out for followers.
And it makes me feel icky
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I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here.
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I can't put my mind around how anyone can possibly think this is okay. If this was okay, all you would have to do to gain free money would be to set up the stream, leave it runnning 'pretending it's live' showing up ads and have people join it 'pretending they're watching' and then share the money.
That is not okay, not even close.
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On February 11 2012 23:46 Stratos wrote:
I can't put my mind around how anyone can possibly think this is okay? If this was okay, all you would have to do to gain free money would be to set up the stream, leave it runnning 'pretending it's live' showing up ads and have people join it 'pretending they're watching' and then share the money.
That is not okay, not even close.
it is YOUR choice to watch it... not theirs... wtf
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On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here.
He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around.
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Several prominent league of legends streamers do this too. I know that hotshotgg is known for an ad script that he keeps on while he is afk that is shown to about 2k + viewers. Abuse like this should not be happening since there is a limited amount of resources that these companies have to spend.
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On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though...
well for starters there's an EG overlay that says it's offline when it's clearly not?
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On February 11 2012 23:47 Artimo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:46 Stratos wrote:
I can't put my mind around how anyone can possibly think this is okay? If this was okay, all you would have to do to gain free money would be to set up the stream, leave it runnning 'pretending it's live' showing up ads and have people join it 'pretending they're watching' and then share the money.
That is not okay, not even close. it is YOUR choice to watch it... not theirs... wtf
If you make money from ads one would expect for the ads to be seen. If you're streaming 'no content' someone might join but nobody is watching the stream. From whatever point I look at it, it's taking money for nothing - stealing.
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On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though...
There is no scene that says "this stream is offline click here to follow" unless he purposefully creates it. Also I'm pretty sure a stream left alone by itself doesn't constantly try to run ads. This is pretty obviously a horrible attempt at exploiting viewers and TwitchTV for ad revenue.
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i dont stream but dont all streams have a picture you can choose that itll show when its really offline?
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On February 11 2012 23:56 Artimo wrote:
i dont stream but dont all streams have a picture you can choose that itll show when its really offline?
Yes, but it's saying it's offline when it's online to make money off Ads from people still watching regardless that a Scene in xSplit says it's offine
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England6749 Posts
its also worth mentioning that this hurts twitch, companies arent interested in being charged for their ads to run when the people are just keeping streams open to spam ads. the people watching are probably just "helping" the streamer and not watching the ads or anything, this is part of the reason twitch sometimes cant sell ad space so easily. it was all covered in that twitch 101 blogged a while back
On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though...
rich quite clearly said "if this continues".
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On February 11 2012 23:56 Artimo wrote:
i dont stream but dont all streams have a picture you can choose that itll show when its really offline?
Yes, they do. If he set his offline stream picture to this it would be acceptable, but he's leaving it online and streaming this picture so it tricks people into thinking he's online so he gets more ad revenue.
I'm pretty sure if someone at Twitch knew about this, the stream would be taken down.
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
Disappointing, I've heard about this in the LoL scene where some big streamers with thousands of viewers leave their stream on and someone plays ads for them. Not too familiar with twitch, but they used ow3nd which has/had the option where you can give another user permission to manage/play ads on for you. ow3nd was upset about this. It's bad practice and you can imagine how companies would feel if they knew their ads were being cycled with no real return.
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I'm sure if someone contacts scoots or evoli, or a person who can contact fear and let him know it will be fixed. No one reason to make a big fuss.
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Oh wow really good find. That is just really stupid on his part.
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No problem, EG's PR has got this!
They'll release a new Evil Geniuses hoodie, ur moneyz are belong to us , with an intense Greg pointing at the camera.
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If this is his first time doing this I'd just give him the benefit of the doubt.
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On February 11 2012 23:59 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:56 Artimo wrote:
i dont stream but dont all streams have a picture you can choose that itll show when its really offline?
Yes, they do. If he set his offline stream picture to this it would be acceptable, but he's leaving it online and streaming this picture so it tricks people into thinking he's online so he gets more ad revenue. I'm pretty sure if someone at Twitch knew about this, the stream would be taken down.
Aren't the offline pictures only shown in 4:3? I've noticed so many times that no ones pictures gets shown in a widescreen format.
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On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though...
You have to physically type /commercial to play an ad. Which means, he's either sitting there doing it, or has some kinda bot, or a mod do it.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
obviously EG doesn't condone this kind of stuff.. please don't be so quick to blame the entire organization for one players misjudgement.
I am emailing management about it right now, this is obviously bad.
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You guys are calling this exploitation for what reason exactly? Because people who left the stream on while they went out to eat dinner are getting ads on their computer? I can't understand why someone would care about that. Because people who just joined have to watch a 20 second ad before they find out that the streamer isn't there? At least half the time when I start up someone's live stream, they're not there. Sometimes they're not there for a significant amount of time or they're just browsing the internet for a significant amount of time.
I don't see any indication in your post that EG.Fear didn't come back 10 minutes later and continue his stream. For all I know that's what it said on his Twitter. So are you sure that isn't the case? Because the only way I could consider this a bad thing is if Fear left his Team Liquid stream status as online, while his stream had an offline message, for a significant amount of time and with no intention of coming back. Otherwise it's exactly what half the people in the featured list do.
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I want to believe this is accidental, but it sounds pretty far-fetched. Someone at EG should poke him in the stomach.
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England6749 Posts
On February 12 2012 01:13 lolmlg wrote:
You guys are calling this exploitation for what reason exactly? Because people who left the stream on while they went out to eat dinner are getting ads on their computer? I can't understand why someone would care about that. Because people who just joined have to watch a 20 second ad before they find out that the streamer isn't there? At least half the time when I start up someone's live stream, they're not there. Sometimes they're not there for a significant amount of time or they're just browsing the internet for a significant amount of time.
I don't see any indication in your post that EG.Fear didn't come back 10 minutes later and continue his stream. For all I know that's what it said on his Twitter. So are you sure that isn't the case? Because the only way I could consider this a bad thing is if Fear left his Team Liquid stream status as online, while his stream had an offline message, for a significant amount of time and with no intention of coming back. Otherwise it's exactly what half the people in the featured list do.
firstly, the only person getting their panties in a twist seems to be you. secondly, the reasons this is bad have already been spelled out. thirdly, if hes just away for 10 minutes he should put up an overlay saying 'brb' not 'offline'. offline implies he isnt coming back for a long time. forthly if he was actually offline he should turn the stream off and use the default offline picture.
what it looks like, to a casual observer, is that he has produced a secondary offline picture so that he can leave the stream on and make money while producing 0 content. now obviously it could just be a 1 time mistake, it could of been 10 minutes, any number of reasons why its 'not a big deal'. but its just someone asking a simple question, even if theres nothing sinister going on.
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I'm not really against this in principle (it's a way for the community to support a player).
The problem is that he's being featured here, so there's a moral problem.
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I'll be talking to Fear about this immediately, and I'll be making sure that it stops.
I want to apologize to any and all fans of our DotA team for this. It's unethical, and, again, I'll make sure to let Fear know that this is unacceptable.
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On February 12 2012 01:24 MrCon wrote:
I'm not really against this in principle (it's a way for the community to support a player).
The problem is that he's being featured here, so there's a moral problem.
It's actually quite stupid for any reason. If he sets his stream to "online" but you can't tell unless you actually open up his stream and see the overlay, then he'll lose a lot of regular viewers that way because for 1. it pisses people off and 2. you won't ever be able to actually tell if he's streaming unless you sign up to his twitter or facebook.
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I'd also like to give another outlook on this. Because dota games take a relatively long time to complete 30-50 minutes, a player will usually sit there and run ads more than 2-3 times. He could have been finishing up a streaming session, set the overlay, and have been running ads before he turned it off. I think this is a very probably scenario considering he had 200 viewers when you opened it up. Had it actually been offline for a while, he'd have a lot less, especially since he usually only regulates around 500-1k viewers.
OP really didn't give a good job giving a better context and explaining the situation better. There's too many assumptions going around.
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On February 12 2012 01:13 lolmlg wrote:
Because the only way I could consider this a bad thing is if Fear left his Team Liquid stream status as online, while his stream had an offline message, for a significant amount of time and with no intention of coming back. Otherwise it's exactly what half the people in the featured list do.
This is exactly what is happening, combined with a bot or script to continually run ads.
Glad to see EG is taking care of this, it really hurts TwitchTV and other streamers by exploiting their ad system like this.
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Thanks for bringing up this to my attention, OP. Did not realize some prominent streamers abused their viewers like that. Set up a donation instead of subjecting people into involuntary advertisements wtf. Also the online streamers list is cluttered up aplenty.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On February 12 2012 00:07 Corinthos wrote:
Disappointing, I've heard about this in the LoL scene where some big streamers with thousands of viewers leave their stream on and someone plays ads for them. Not too familiar with twitch, but they used ow3nd which has/had the option where you can give another user permission to manage/play ads on for you. ow3nd was upset about this. It's bad practice and you can imagine how companies would feel if they knew their ads were being cycled with no real return.
Yeah it got pretty crazy. His following is so addicted to him that he even had ~6k viewers when he was afk for 2 hr. Then of course he had a bot set up to play the ads for him while he was off doing other stuff. I think own3d talked to him after those incidents since no one has talked about him doing that in a while.
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Seen lots of people do this latley its really sickening and i lose respect to them if they really want money should just get a part time job instead of exploiting and letting down their fans
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On February 12 2012 02:40 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 00:07 Corinthos wrote:
Disappointing, I've heard about this in the LoL scene where some big streamers with thousands of viewers leave their stream on and someone plays ads for them. Not too familiar with twitch, but they used ow3nd which has/had the option where you can give another user permission to manage/play ads on for you. ow3nd was upset about this. It's bad practice and you can imagine how companies would feel if they knew their ads were being cycled with no real return. Yeah it got pretty crazy. His following is so addicted to him that he even had ~6k viewers when he was afk for 2 hr. Then of course he had a bot set up to play the ads for him while he was off doing other stuff. I think own3d talked to him after those incidents since no one has talked about him doing that in a while.
lol, i think its funny that you are talking about a specific person with nobody naming anybody. better to keep it that way, yes, just confusing.
interesting blog + events ;o
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yea EG.demon does this too
he'll go away for many hours and have a script that runs /commercial
he doesn't display the offline picture but I think that's just as bad. no content with constant ads
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On February 12 2012 01:25 evoli wrote:
I'll be talking to Fear about this immediately, and I'll be making sure that it stops.
I want to apologize to any and all fans of our DotA team for this. It's unethical, and, again, I'll make sure to let Fear know that this is unacceptable.
I'm glad to see EG is taking care of this so quickly.
This just hurts streaming. I hope this sets some rules regarding this unethical practice.
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Commercials with no real content.. sounds like TV!
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This is how problems should be handled on TL. Good job guys.
Thank you OP for bringing this to our attention
Thank you Rich, Evoli and Incontrol for putting a stop to it.
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Big shame for EG D: I want to say that this wasn't intentional by Fear, but I dont know @_@
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On February 12 2012 01:57 Hesmyrr wrote:
Thanks for bringing up this to my attention, OP. Did not realize some prominent streamers abused their viewers like that. Set up a donation instead of subjecting people into involuntary advertisements wtf. Also the online streamers list is cluttered up aplenty.
I don't think what the guy is doing is right but how is he abusing his viewers? he is not subjecting them to involuntary advertisements.. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WATCH!
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This happens all the time, I assumed it was frowned upon but okay.
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On February 12 2012 04:39 Josh111 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 01:57 Hesmyrr wrote:
Thanks for bringing up this to my attention, OP. Did not realize some prominent streamers abused their viewers like that. Set up a donation instead of subjecting people into involuntary advertisements wtf. Also the online streamers list is cluttered up aplenty. I don't think what the guy is doing is right but how is he abusing his viewers? he is not subjecting them to involuntary advertisements.. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WATCH!
1. Clicking on the stream loads a commercial, that's revenue
2. Seeing music being played and a custom screen could be interpreted as he will come online soon or that he has the wrong screen up (and will switch soon)
3. It's not the idea that they don't have to watch, it's the idea that if you're not doing something, have the courtesy of not misleading people.
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Nice to see EG simply taking steps to stop it immediately. Kudos to them.
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On February 12 2012 04:41 Iyerbeth wrote:
Nice to see EG simply taking steps to stop it immediately. Kudos to them.
This. At least management will intervene.
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On February 12 2012 01:03 Xeris wrote:
You have to physically type /commercial to play an ad. Which means, he's either sitting there doing it, or has some kinda bot, or a mod do it.
They have a program to type the /commercial. The logo is a red "A", but dunno what it is called.
Demon also uses it.
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why is this stream featured on TL, it is not starcraft related
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And people wonder why streamers are making less money from ads nowadays. Streamers don't respect the ad companies which pay them, I really hope own3d takes that 3x ad button away because showing the same ad 3x in a row every X Minutes has a negative effect on me and I know I'm not the only one.
This is clearly "fraudulent clicks", and I hope stream providers search through vods for this type of stuff and punish the abusers. Ad companies should not be charged for ads playing on idle computers.
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On February 12 2012 05:41 ONEofUS wrote:
why is this stream featured on TL, it is not starcraft related
Because people want to see it.
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First of all, I would like to apologize for any problems this has caused and that it won't happen again.
I can assure you this wasn't done intentionally, however. In fact, this is the first time that I've ever accidentally left my stream on when I went to sleep (or long periods of time where I'm away from my computer) after a long night of streaming. You see, I was literally streaming all night long from 8pm-5am, so you can imagine how tired I was. I put that screen up for about the last 15-30 mins of my stream ( I had another overlay that said be back in 15mins, but that was too misleading, because people kept asking where I was.) Typically I just chat a little during that time, but have no intention of playing any more games and I like that be crystal clear so I don't have to repeat myself in chat or have my mods keep repeating themselves. I'm sure anyone who watches my stream regularly, can vouch that I've never done this before or ever left my stream unattended for over an hour.
I know mistakes like these can be hard to forgive, but it really was just an honest mistake on my end with an error of judgement because I was so tired. I will make sure I triple check it from now on.
Kudos
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On February 12 2012 06:02 FearDotA wrote:
Typically I just chat a little during that time, but have no intention of playing any more games and I like that be crystal clear so I don't have to repeat myself in chat or have my mods keep repeating themselves. I'm sure anyone who watches my stream regularly, can vouch that I've never done this before or ever left my stream unattended for over an hour.
I can vouch for this since I'm a regular viewer and have woken up at times as he was still streaming and then shuts it down to head to bed. He's always turned off his stream when he is done, which is why I thought all this was strange in the first place. But shit happens. We learn from our mistakes and move on.
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On February 11 2012 23:52 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though... There is no scene that says "this stream is offline click here to follow" unless he purposefully creates it. Also I'm pretty sure a stream left alone by itself doesn't constantly try to run ads. This is pretty obviously a horrible attempt at exploiting viewers and TwitchTV for ad revenue.
I agree with R1CH. If hes not streaming live it should be on "live streams". If everyone started doing this it would be difficult to find a stream with someone actually playing.
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While I am glad it turned out that this was all a misunderstanding, I am also glad that the topic has been raised and the matter was cleared up here for the most part.
People should think twice before approving of anything "for the sake of e-sports". Although a similar technique might bring a few bucks to someone who deserves them and plenty would be happy to support them, it would at the same time cast a shadow on all the other players and the community and could ultimately hurt us more, lead to restrictions, less money and less interest in the companies to sponsor the players.
No company would ever want to sponsor anything if there was nothing for them to gain in the first place, that is the way it works and we should all accept it if we want for esports to grow.
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On February 12 2012 06:52 Stratos wrote:
While I am glad it turned out that this was all a misunderstanding, I am also glad that the topic has been raised and the matter was cleared up here for the most part.
People should think twice before approving of anything "for the sake of e-sports". Although a similar technique might bring a few bucks to someone who deserves them and plenty would be happy to support them, it would at the same time cast a shadow on all the other players and the community and could ultimately hurt us more, lead to restrictions, less money and less interest in the companies to sponsor the players.
No company would ever want to sponsor anything if there was nothing for them to gain in the first place, that is the way it works and we should all accept it if we want for esports to grow.
This.
Also, much respect for Fear jumping in here and leaving a statement of his own. Good to see guys man up and do it themselves, even after getting their pee-pee slapped. Much respect Fear.
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The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that.
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On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that.
Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 12 2012 10:56 Hydroxyl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that. Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know.
Actually if you look at the Automated Ban List you find out why people are banned, and it's not related to this thread.
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On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that.
When an EG player puts up an EG overlay that says something like this, it follows naturally that people will think EG caused this.
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On February 12 2012 10:56 Hydroxyl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that. Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know.
If EG made TL ban everyone who ever said anything bad about EG, probably half this forum would be gone. I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that EG paid TL to ban him for making the OP when it's so easy to check the banned thread. But also think for a moment, if that really did happen, and it was so obvious that you could almost instantly point it out, the kind of PR hole that EG would've dug themselves into by doing it. No team would ever do something like that.
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On February 12 2012 14:15 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:56 Hydroxyl wrote:On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that. Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know. If EG made TL ban everyone who ever said anything bad about EG, probably half this forum would be gone. I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that EG paid TL to ban him for making the OP when it's so easy to check the banned thread. But also think for a moment, if that really did happen, and it was so obvious that you could almost instantly point it out, the kind of PR hole that EG would've dug themselves into by doing it. No team would ever do something like that.
Hmmm, Romanian? :D
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On February 12 2012 14:15 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:56 Hydroxyl wrote:On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that. Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know. If EG made TL ban everyone who ever said anything bad about EG, probably half this forum would be gone. I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that EG paid TL to ban him for making the OP when it's so easy to check the banned thread. But also think for a moment, if that really did happen, and it was so obvious that you could almost instantly point it out, the kind of PR hole that EG would've dug themselves into by doing it. No team would ever do something like that.
FYI, he was banned for insulting other users from another irrelevent thread, it has nothing to do with this.
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On February 12 2012 15:07 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 14:15 hunts wrote:On February 12 2012 10:56 Hydroxyl wrote:On February 12 2012 09:21 seiferoth10 wrote:
The situation was handled, and that's great and all, but why are you (OP) implicating a whole organization because of one member's mistake? The feature line was "Now before all EG members start doing this, I just wana point out that doing this is NOT cool." which reads like you expect all EG members to jump on the bandwagon and start doing this. What? One member makes a mistake which is poorly viewed, and now you expect the whole organization to start exploiting the community?
Edit: Nevermind? I saw he had a lock icon, so I looked up the reason, and now I understand how he could come up with the OP like that. Too bad he got muzzled so you won't probably have the reasons behind the OP. EG probably got some bucks out to have him censured here, so you won't ever know. If EG made TL ban everyone who ever said anything bad about EG, probably half this forum would be gone. I'm really not sure how you came to the conclusion that EG paid TL to ban him for making the OP when it's so easy to check the banned thread. But also think for a moment, if that really did happen, and it was so obvious that you could almost instantly point it out, the kind of PR hole that EG would've dug themselves into by doing it. No team would ever do something like that. FYI, he was banned for insulting other users from another irrelevent thread, it has nothing to do with this.
I know, I was trying to explain that to the person who originally thought that the OP got banned for making this thread. But it's late and I'm tired so I guess I didn't clearly express what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that the idea of EG making TL ban the OP for making this thread and "exposing them" is ludicrous, and that it's easy to check why someone got banned instead of jumping to such far fetched conclusions.
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So was EG.Demon just killed?
He was apparently doing the same thing as I just tuned in (11:19 Mod xyshin: He's done for the night, he's just running commercials for some ad revenue) and now its listed as "disabled":
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/EG.DeMoN
Normally it would say "Offline" and still show the player and info. Someone got the axe?
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Demon does this all the time. He puts on his overlay for 3-4 hours and just afks
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On February 12 2012 06:02 FearDotA wrote:
First of all, I would like to apologize for any problems this has caused and that it won't happen again.
I can assure you this wasn't done intentionally, however. In fact, this is the first time that I've ever accidentally left my stream on when I went to sleep (or long periods of time where I'm away from my computer) after a long night of streaming. You see, I was literally streaming all night long from 8pm-5am, so you can imagine how tired I was. I put that screen up for about the last 15-30 mins of my stream ( I had another overlay that said be back in 15mins, but that was too misleading, because people kept asking where I was.) Typically I just chat a little during that time, but have no intention of playing any more games and I like that be crystal clear so I don't have to repeat myself in chat or have my mods keep repeating themselves. I'm sure anyone who watches my stream regularly, can vouch that I've never done this before or ever left my stream unattended for over an hour.
I know mistakes like these can be hard to forgive, but it really was just an honest mistake on my end with an error of judgement because I was so tired. I will make sure I triple check it from now on.
Kudos
Every streamer I have seen has to click/enter the commercial command by hand. When you where asleep you have to have a script doing it. I can hardly imagine going afk and running a programm which constantly spams /commercial by accident :/
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Ive seen Demon do this so many fucking times its annoying
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On February 12 2012 22:29 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:02 FearDotA wrote:
First of all, I would like to apologize for any problems this has caused and that it won't happen again.
I can assure you this wasn't done intentionally, however. In fact, this is the first time that I've ever accidentally left my stream on when I went to sleep (or long periods of time where I'm away from my computer) after a long night of streaming. You see, I was literally streaming all night long from 8pm-5am, so you can imagine how tired I was. I put that screen up for about the last 15-30 mins of my stream ( I had another overlay that said be back in 15mins, but that was too misleading, because people kept asking where I was.) Typically I just chat a little during that time, but have no intention of playing any more games and I like that be crystal clear so I don't have to repeat myself in chat or have my mods keep repeating themselves. I'm sure anyone who watches my stream regularly, can vouch that I've never done this before or ever left my stream unattended for over an hour.
I know mistakes like these can be hard to forgive, but it really was just an honest mistake on my end with an error of judgement because I was so tired. I will make sure I triple check it from now on.
Kudos Every streamer I have seen has to click/enter the commercial command by hand. When you where asleep you have to have a script doing it. I can hardly imagine going afk and running a programm which constantly spams /commercial by accident :/
People with dashbaord access.
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On February 12 2012 19:28 BadaBing wrote:So was EG.Demon just killed? He was apparently doing the same thing as I just tuned in ( 11:19 Mod xyshin: He's done for the night, he's just running commercials for some ad revenue) and now its listed as "disabled": http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/EG.DeMoNNormally it would say "Offline" and still show the player and info. Someone got the axe?
Whoah. It is disabled. Did he really pull that shit a day after this post was made? If so... this guy is rofl stupid.
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On February 13 2012 01:31 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 19:28 BadaBing wrote:So was EG.Demon just killed? He was apparently doing the same thing as I just tuned in ( 11:19 Mod xyshin: He's done for the night, he's just running commercials for some ad revenue) and now its listed as "disabled": http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/EG.DeMoNNormally it would say "Offline" and still show the player and info. Someone got the axe? Whoah. It is disabled. Did he really pull that shit a day after this post was made? If so... this guy is rofl stupid.
MOBAs in general have very bad communities. The MOBA pros are about as disrespectful and arrogant as the MOBA players, so to see dota2/hon/LOL pros doing this kind of thing is not at all surprising. Just remember, the SC2 community is sadly not the norm as far as respectability goes, it's the exception.
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On February 11 2012 23:52 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though... There is no scene that says "this stream is offline click here to follow" unless he purposefully creates it. Also I'm pretty sure a stream left alone by itself doesn't constantly try to run ads. This is pretty obviously a horrible attempt at exploiting viewers and TwitchTV for ad revenue.
Auto clickers are currently really popular in Dota so people can accept a game being ready while they're going to the bathroom or getting a drink etc. I know for a fact several streamers use it like Demon and I think Fear has used it in the past too. Theres almost no chance that this was a mistake it was set up like that, unless it was a moderator given privileges to hit the commercial button that did this.
On February 12 2012 01:03 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 23:50 Sated wrote:On February 11 2012 23:48 R1CH wrote:On February 11 2012 23:45 Artimo wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why it is unacceptable. Does it violate the TL rules for streaming? or getting your stream featured?
dont get me wrong im not saying everyone should do it.
but, its like watching tv. if you dont like what you're seeing. change the channel.
maybe im missing something here. He is exploiting the stream list by leaving an obviously offline stream online so that people click it and he gets ad revenue. Not only that, he is exploiting TwitchTV by constantly running ads on a content-less stream so anyone who left the stream open is being flooded with ads. Terrible all around. Prove it isn't an honest mistake. All it takes is forgetting to click a single button and the stream stays online when you didn't mean for it to. This is silly if it is on purpose, though... You have to physically type /commercial to play an ad. Which means, he's either sitting there doing it, or has some kinda bot, or a mod do it.
There is a button on the dashboard that can be clicked instead so any program (there are hundreds of them, usually for MMO games) that can just auto click every x amoutn of time.
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I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future.
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On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future.
Oh so your bullshit was canned and only now you're going to reform?
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Ahhh R1ch?
His stream is disabled but it still shows the initial commercial when you click on his stream. So basically he is still getting ad revenue so may just want to un-feature his stream?
On February 13 2012 13:51 Masamune wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. Oh so your bullshit was canned and only now you're going to reform?
You and several other people in this thread need to chill out. Is this community so hungry for drama and witch hunts that we need to make some up where none really exists? TL staff will take care of the issue, clearly several streamers didn't understand that having their stream featured on TL meant they would be held to certain standards. Obviously that has been made clear now and staff will have to figure out how they want to enforce those standards.
While what Demon and Fear were/are doing is dishonest, no one was getting hurt and it's not like they were making trillions of dollars. So let's call off the witch hunt and let the TL staff do what they do so well and solve the disagreement, yes?
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On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future.
By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never...
But don't worry I use adblock anyway
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On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway
I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something.
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On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something.
Yep, you're right. It was the Bing commercials that made me do it. Your post made me take the initiative to add the teamliquid front page as an exception
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On February 13 2012 14:43 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:51 Masamune wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. Oh so your bullshit was canned and only now you're going to reform? You and several other people in this thread need to chill out. Is this community so hungry for drama and witch hunts that we need to make some up where none really exists? TL staff will take care of the issue, clearly several streamers didn't understand that having their stream featured on TL meant they would be held to certain standards. Obviously that has been made clear now and staff will have to figure out how they want to enforce those standards. While what Demon and Fear were/are doing is dishonest, no one was getting hurt and it's not like they were making trillions of dollars. So let's call off the witch hunt and let the TL staff do what they do so well and solve the disagreement, yes?
I know this forum tries to stay at a certain level of respectfulness... but a dota player comes here and intentionally abuses twitch tv and the tl streaming system for profit and he's not supposed to catch some heat for it? To hell with that, he's a scumbag, sponsored or not.
No witch hunt going on at all, this is a unmarked thread in the blog section made to alert EG that their players are engaging in scummy behavior. Assuming it gets their attention, which is supposedly already has, this is the exact spot to let them know just how dirty it looks.
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Lol fuck that, anything R1CH says is law to me. burn the witches !
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R1CH is all knowing, any denial of this fact shows stupidity and ignorance.
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On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something.
We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts.
What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation.
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They should be removed from the streamers list on TL.
There is no reason not to do that.
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On February 18 2012 03:09 s.a.y wrote:
They should be removed from the streamers list on TL.
There is no reason not to do that.
Fear claimed it was a one time mistake and regular viewers have confirmed that he runs that screen after he's done playing for the day while he fields questions in the chat and then turns it off.
Benefit of the doubt, if it happens again and there is a pattern of abuse then yes de-feature him but that seems a bit excessive for a one time occurence which was very possibly just an innocent mistake.
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On February 18 2012 03:17 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 03:09 s.a.y wrote:
They should be removed from the streamers list on TL.
There is no reason not to do that. Fear claimed it was a one time mistake and regular viewers have confirmed that he runs that screen after he's done playing for the day while he fields questions in the chat and then turns it off. Benefit of the doubt, if it happens again and there is a pattern of abuse then yes de-feature him but that seems a bit excessive for a one time occurence which was very possibly just an innocent mistake.
Why don't you go back a page and read it again, it looks like he did it again.
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On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation.
First, I'm not your bro.
Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on.
However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here?
This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation?
If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion.
(seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream)
What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content.
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On February 18 2012 03:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 03:17 TheButtonmen wrote:On February 18 2012 03:09 s.a.y wrote:
They should be removed from the streamers list on TL.
There is no reason not to do that. Fear claimed it was a one time mistake and regular viewers have confirmed that he runs that screen after he's done playing for the day while he fields questions in the chat and then turns it off. Benefit of the doubt, if it happens again and there is a pattern of abuse then yes de-feature him but that seems a bit excessive for a one time occurence which was very possibly just an innocent mistake. Why don't you go back a page and read it again, it looks like he did it again.
Two different persons. Demon and Fear... Why don't you read it again
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It's not even like you're really missing out on something by blocking the ads as most of time the stream is going to be dead air while the ads are run anyways.
On February 18 2012 03:57 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 03:17 TheButtonmen wrote:On February 18 2012 03:09 s.a.y wrote:
They should be removed from the streamers list on TL.
There is no reason not to do that. Fear claimed it was a one time mistake and regular viewers have confirmed that he runs that screen after he's done playing for the day while he fields questions in the chat and then turns it off. Benefit of the doubt, if it happens again and there is a pattern of abuse then yes de-feature him but that seems a bit excessive for a one time occurence which was very possibly just an innocent mistake. Why don't you go back a page and read it again, it looks like he did it again.
...No?
The incident mentioned the previous page was EG.Demon also having this issue and saying that he will be changing how his stream is run in the future to avoid it.
Now that this issue has been raised and the streamers have indicated that they are aware of the problem and changing how their stream will be run then if they were to continue in the future and there is a pattern of abuse of the TL featured streaming sidebar then yes punish them but to simply remove them because of a single incident which they've stated they will be avoiding in the future seems draconian.
Zero tolerance isn't a very good policy.
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On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. Show nested quote +(seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content.
The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying.
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On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. Show nested quote +(seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content.
We are all bros, because we are all fatties online who drink Burger King milkshakes.
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On February 18 2012 04:52 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying.
I'm not going to defend players over this. Eventually Twitch is going to get a cease and dissist from the MPAA and they are going to be forced to enforce it anyway, but still.
(as an aside, I would actually prefer that streamers leave all music off, so I can listen to my own music and still get the game sounds)
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On February 18 2012 05:05 0123456789 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. We are all bros, because we are all fatties online who drink Burger King milkshakes.
Does Burger King even have milkshakes? If so im going to go get one.
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On February 18 2012 05:24 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:05 0123456789 wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. We are all bros, because we are all fatties online who drink Burger King milkshakes. Does Burger King even have milkshakes? If so im going to go get one.
There's only one thing you go to BK for: the Whopper. And even that is 50-50 with MD's.
Everything else MD's does way better. (have you guys ever tried their pancakes? Holy shit! Best fast food pancakes by a mile)
If BK has a milkshake I'm sure it would be gross.
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On February 18 2012 05:12 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 04:52 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying. I'm not going to defend players over this. Eventually Twitch is going to get a cease and dissist from the MPAA and they are going to be forced to enforce it anyway, but still. (as an aside, I would actually prefer that streamers leave all music off, so I can listen to my own music and still get the game sounds)
Ok, so why should I go out of my way to make sure they make money off of the content they provide me when they don't extend the same courtesy to others?
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On February 18 2012 06:12 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:12 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 04:52 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying. I'm not going to defend players over this. Eventually Twitch is going to get a cease and dissist from the MPAA and they are going to be forced to enforce it anyway, but still. (as an aside, I would actually prefer that streamers leave all music off, so I can listen to my own music and still get the game sounds) Ok, so why should I go out of my way to make sure they make money off of the content they provide me when they don't extend the same courtesy to others?
This is a straw man argument. There is a gigantic difference between someone like Axslav (who just lost his team) and Sony Music Entertainment. If someone is streaming Sony's music online without payment, Sony isn't going to go out of business. Sony also has the facilities to take legal action and seek damages for the revenue. Someone like Axslav, if he doesn't get the ad revenue from his stream, may very well be forced out of pro-gaming. Again, I'm not going to defend players for restreaming music, but it's no justification for using ad-block.
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On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future.
more cautious not to get caught that is...
really stupid move
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It's kind of funny to see the words "more cautious" in regard to a full-blown premeditated "scam" which took some organization to throw together 
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On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro.
First off, why not stop offending me when I'm friendly towards your person. Even though we don't agree, we can still respect one another.
Secondly, I'm just curious why are you saying I block ads? If I remember my own words correctly, I've mentioned that I'm ignoring (physical act) commercial streams for the large part when their ads are running.
The notion that one can hurt e-sports is a quite stretched one, because it tends to become a shelter for some of the commercial entities. It have seen it be used as an excuse to cover a gap in their revenue, while being reluctant to try and find new methods for advertising that are more effecient. I'm an advertiser and I know exactly how it works, people become ad blind after a while or they figure out a way to ignore ads. Especially forums, so I imagine this problem to be prevalent at TL. This is when someone has to go back to the drawing board. If, however publishers (streamers or a TL) see their profits go down, they need to find new ways similarly. They can also sit down and talk about how people are not watching their ads and not do a thing about it... or they can figure out new ways to generate income. Otherwise they should be aware of the fact that entrepreneurs need to push the envelope all the time, work their ass of to become succesful.
Something you are forgetting, many of the streamers are businesses (do not get carried away because their is a strong and large community around it), businesses adapt to changing environments, the ones that don't go bust.
Just to be clear, I am talking about commercial streamers, I agree 100% with you if there's actually a non commercial streamer providing good content out there, we should definitely support them by watching ads.
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On February 18 2012 08:29 peacenl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. First off, why not stop offending me when I'm friendly towards your person. Even though we don't agree, we can still respect one another.
Your "bro" looked really sarcastic. If it wasn't intended to be, Toast can be easily forgiven for misinterpreting it. I don't think this part of your post is worth having a discussion over at all.
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On February 18 2012 08:32 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 08:29 peacenl wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. First off, why not stop offending me when I'm friendly towards your person. Even though we don't agree, we can still respect one another. Your "bro" looked really sarcastic. If it wasn't intended to be, Toast can be easily forgiven for misinterpreting it. I don't think this part of your post is worth having a discussion over at all.
You are right, it does seem like that, if I read it back 
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On February 18 2012 06:27 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:12 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 05:12 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 04:52 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying. I'm not going to defend players over this. Eventually Twitch is going to get a cease and dissist from the MPAA and they are going to be forced to enforce it anyway, but still. (as an aside, I would actually prefer that streamers leave all music off, so I can listen to my own music and still get the game sounds) Ok, so why should I go out of my way to make sure they make money off of the content they provide me when they don't extend the same courtesy to others? This is a straw man argument. There is a gigantic difference between someone like Axslav (who just lost his team) and Sony Music Entertainment. If someone is streaming Sony's music online without payment, Sony isn't going to go out of business. Sony also has the facilities to take legal action and seek damages for the revenue. Someone like Axslav, if he doesn't get the ad revenue from his stream, may very well be forced out of pro-gaming. Again, I'm not going to defend players for restreaming music, but it's no justification for using ad-block.
I don't think any progamers save a few would actually "go out of business" if people didn't watch their streams. Only a few make significant income from streaming.
Anyways, you've mentioned several times about "justification" for using ad-block. I'll answer your question directly. I don't use adblock because the ads can be repetitive, loud, and just plain annoying - even more so when I am trying to do homework while alt tabbing every now and then back to a game. I especially dislike when players whore ads. Using adblock is a legal (whereas streaming music is not) and convenient way to get around these issues. Sorry if I'm costing streamers 1 cent per commercial or whatever it is. What more justification do I need? Wouldn't you decline to view commercials on television if you had the option to?
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On February 18 2012 12:09 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:27 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 06:12 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 05:12 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 04:52 getSome[703] wrote:On February 18 2012 04:00 TheToast wrote:On February 18 2012 00:01 peacenl wrote:On February 13 2012 15:08 TheToast wrote:On February 13 2012 14:47 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 13:11 EG.DeMoN wrote:
I wasn't aware of the situation myself until I realized from one of my viewers told me that my stream was disabled from TL. No need to flame me, I'll be more cautious about non-stop ad spam in the near future. By "near future," I hope you mean starting immediately and ending never... But don't worry I use adblock anyway I would point out that using ad block is just as bad as what they were doing. They're getting something for doing nothing, you're giving them nothing and getting something. We can not be forced to watch ads bro. If I can skip ads by looking/walking away and/or turning off sound, then you can also decide to not watch their stream anymore if its not showing anything interesting. This form of self regulation seems to work because it gives freedom to creativity. For example, some large tournaments use large breaks of over 30 mins and keep running the same ads, this even happens before the tournament starts. What you are imposing a new form a regulation where on the one side people will have to watch ads (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream), which is any advertisers (I am one of them) nightmare because "semi forced" supportive clicks and negative ad influence do not benefit them at all. And on the other side streamers are not able to bring up new creative sources of income, due to the strict regulation. Signs clearly saying "this stream is offline" and you still watching and complaining about ads seems incredibly out of this world to me. The stream might show online, but since you know for sure that the stream is offline you have the opportunity to leave. They should be able to run a stream like that all day, a beautiful thing called self regulation will show you that after a while people get sick of it, and they will never come back. This is perfect and needs not one bit of regulation. First, I'm not your bro. Second, this argument is illogical. No, sorry, this argument is bullshit. Yes, there is no guarentee that anyone is watching the advertisement; even with television people quite often get up to use the restroom, get a snack, etc. Advertisers know this, they're not stupid. They understand that a certain percentage of the audience recieving their ads are not watching them, my bet is that many ad agencies spend considerable time estimating this percentage and adjusting their pricing models respectively. That's not to say no one watches ads, occationally I will watch the ads when something looks interesting or grabs my attention; this is what advertisers count on. However if you have ad block on, they know that there is a 100% chance you are not seeing their advertisements, and will not pay out anything to the streamer for your view. Do you understand the the difference here? This has nothing to do with freedom or creativity. This has to do with ad-block users in essence stealing content from players. Many pros stream primarily as a means to get income and support themselves. They are providing you content and in turn your view provide them with some much needed extra cash. You want to talk about self regulation? If you are using ad-block, why should the players keep streaming? You'll self regulate player streams right into oblivion. (seriously you can not force anyone to watch ads and deprive them of their freedom because they are watching a stream) What god given right do you have to watch their content without supporting them? Watching the ads takes NO effort on your part, and in return really helps some of these players stay afloat. I really, really hate to say this but it applies here: people like you are hurting esports. No one is asking you to click on the ads and buy the products (that would actually be illegal and against TOS), no one is even asking you to watch them--go get a snack who cares--but blocking them completely deprives players of revenue that they have EARNED by giving you good free content. The same god given right that allows progamers to stream music without compensating the artist to increase their stream numbers and hence their ad revenue. They are not just "using content without supporting" the artist, but are using it for their own commercial gain. Just saying. I'm not going to defend players over this. Eventually Twitch is going to get a cease and dissist from the MPAA and they are going to be forced to enforce it anyway, but still. (as an aside, I would actually prefer that streamers leave all music off, so I can listen to my own music and still get the game sounds) Ok, so why should I go out of my way to make sure they make money off of the content they provide me when they don't extend the same courtesy to others? This is a straw man argument. There is a gigantic difference between someone like Axslav (who just lost his team) and Sony Music Entertainment. If someone is streaming Sony's music online without payment, Sony isn't going to go out of business. Sony also has the facilities to take legal action and seek damages for the revenue. Someone like Axslav, if he doesn't get the ad revenue from his stream, may very well be forced out of pro-gaming. Again, I'm not going to defend players for restreaming music, but it's no justification for using ad-block. I don't think any progamers save a few would actually "go out of business" if people didn't watch their streams. Only a few make significant income from streaming.
On the contrary, most pro-gamers don't even hit the poverty line when it comes to income. An extra $50-$100 a month goes a very, very, very long way.
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EPT
