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Tommy rents a room from a Johnny. He furnishes the room, but one day has to move. For whatever reason, he's not able to bring his furniture with him, and leaves it all behind.
Johnny doesn't mind this, as it basically means he has a furnished bedroom to offer to guests when they come by.
A couple months pass.
One day Billy asks Johnny if he can rent the room. Billy and Johnny agree to terms, and Billy moves in to Johnny's furnished guest room.
A couple more months pass.
Tommy comes to visit, and hangs out with Billy, Billy's brother (who is also in town), and Johnny for a few days. While he's in town, he talks to Billy's brother about selling his furniture to Billy. The brother seems agreeable to the prospect of Billy buying the furniture, but the subject is never actually brought up with Billy. Tommy leaves thinking he has sold his old stuff.
A couple more months pass.
One day Tommy contacts Billy, claiming that Billy owes him money for the furniture. Billy disagrees. Tommy claims that it isn't fair that Billy has been using his furniture for all this time, but Billy argues that the subject should have been broached when he moved in, and if not then, then certainly when Tommy was in town.
Tommy gets mad and claims that if Billy won't pay up, then Billy's brother should. Billy still disagrees.
Angrily, Tommy says "then you're not allowed to use my furniture anymore".
Billy says "You're welcome to come get it any time."
Tommy counters "It's my furniture and you can't use it. I'm never going to come get it, but if you don't pay me for it, you're not allowed to use it."
Is one side right or wrong?
Should Billy have to pay Tommy?
Does Johnny have a responsibility to either side?
What would you do if you were in either Billy's or Tommy's shoes?
Discuss!
 
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So is Mr Bitter Billy... or Tommy...
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On February 11 2012 12:08 mizU wrote:
So is Mr Bitter Billy... or Tommy...
Johnny, of course.
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If Tommy leaves it for more than 28 days after being informed, it's unsolicited goods, and becomes Billy's to do whatever he wants with (bin it)!
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The furniture belongs to Johnny. I think this pretty much solves it? The furniture has essentially been in free storage in Johnny's place for however long its been. Tommy forfeited his right to the furniture a long time ago, especially if he and Johnny didn't have some kind of agreement. I'm pretty sure you could get a lawyer to argue the same thing.
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Tommy left the furniture behind and isn't paying for storage or mentioned anything about it to Johnny when he left. So the furniture now belongs to Johnny.
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United States24805 Posts
Yeah as far as I can tell, Johnny got the furniture from Tommy. Tommy isn't entitled to anything. I don't think this makes the furniture Billy's but I guess you don't really care as long as this is resolved.
My apartment is unfurnished but there is a leftover kitchen table and some chairs here I'm using. When I move out I'll leave them behind.
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Too be honest, I had a hard time following who did what. Too many generic names >.<
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I dont get the last bit when tommy says "u cant use my stuff" if he isnt going to collect it back, how is he gonna stop u from using it
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Billy is right, and Tommy should go get his furnitures if he wants them, if not, then, when Johny moves out, either Tommy comes and pick them, or Johny throws them away.
But for the time being, Billy can use them.
Kthnx billystayez
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Lol this is quite a situation that either you or someone you know is in. Personally i feel like Tommy used Johnnny as a storage unit first of all. Then He tries to push a sale without actually talking to the consumer directly. There was never an agreement in the first place yet he still is trying to force it on him. Billy If i was in billy's shoes i would tell tommy that he is fucked in the head and then throw his furniture out on the curb  ,
I would also disconnect myself from tommy completely as it seems like this person doesn't understand business, relationships or even consideration for others. This person doesn't really understand boundaries it seems. Get away asap.
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United States996 Posts
billy certainly owes tommy nothing.
the rest of what matters is the agreement that johnny and tommy had when he decided to leave his furniture there (i cant take it its yours, i cant take it but i'll be back at an undisclosed time to pick it up, or just said absolutely nothing). from there it matters if johnny disclosed their [tommy and johnnys understanding of the furniture debacle] with billy. if johnny didnt disclose the arrangement to billy, johnny should end up owing billy whatever losses he incurs [cost of renting the same furniture or whatever] since the agreement on rent was predicated on the place being furnished
if he did disclose whatever the situation was at the time billy was looking to rent (and im guessing he didnt) then the solution should be ezpz based on whatever was said
subjective opinion in spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +tommy sounds like a complete idiot
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Tell tommy to fuck off, burn his furniture and send him the vid
You can also send this thread to Tommy, so he realizes he is an asshole. But only after you burned his furniture :D
(this isn't a tricky situation at all, tommy is 100% in the wrong)
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I agree with Billy - Tommy should come and get the furniture. If he doesn't, it's fair game to use.
Johnny has no responsibility to either party (can choose to remain neutral) but he can break the impasse by telling Tommy to come get the furniture or stop complaining.
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The original room mate never entered an explicit contract of sale, verbal or otherwise, with the new room mate. He effectively left his property without payment or other forms of compensation with the chief tenant (Johnny).
He is entitled to retrieve his belongings just as Johnny is entitled to throw them out if it suits him. He is also entitled to sell it if there is a prospective purchaser of said furniture.
He isn't entitled to retroactively levy payment on his furniture for prior use before an expressed and explicit agreement was concluded.
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Tommy left his furniture to the hands of Johnny.
It's in Johnny's possession and under his roof, it's his furniture to which he agreed to rent the room space, room and the furniture accompanied to Billy.
Tommy has no say and even if he did, he was given the right to claim his belongings if he truly felt bothered by the agreement. He doesn't want to do it and his word certainly has no validity or power.
Tommy's out of luck. It's either trash because he couldn't bring it with him anyways or used for someone who'd benefit from him.
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On February 11 2012 12:31 Probe1 wrote:
The original room mate never entered an explicit contract of sale, verbal or otherwise, with the new room mate. He effectively left his property without payment or other forms of compensation with the chief tenant (Johnny).
He is entitled to retrieve his belongings just as Johnny is entitled to throw them out if it suits him. He is also entitled to sell it if there is a prospective purchaser of said furniture.
He isn't entitled to retroactively levy payment on his furniture for prior use before an expressed and explicit agreement was concluded.
Can Tommy argue verbal contract with Billy's brother?
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Its not billys fault. its Johnny and tommy's fault.
Its money that tommy put into Johnny property. thus he should be working out a deal to transfer ownership of said furnature to Johnny instead of billy.
billy shouldn't be included in any discussions as hes just renting a property he in this case includes the new stuff. Johnny should offer to pay Tommy a very small amount for the stuff and harassing his new customer or tell him to get it himself. if he can do neither tell him that he can't have a choice in the mater as he isn't the renter anymore
in any case Johnny can just be a total ass and just say that the stuff is his now and Tommy should stop talking to him or sue for the stuff back. I'm not familier in local laws on how that would go after.
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On February 11 2012 12:36 MrBitter wrote:
Can Tommy argue verbal contract with Billy's brother?
Just because they're related doesn't mean you can legally speak for your brother. Billy's brother can't speak for Billy, and Billy has no obligation to do anything his brother said he would do.
Tommy is 100% in the wrong.
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EPT
