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Empathy
"the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another."
Empathetic is not the word which anyone who knows me would describe me as. I can completely understand this consensus as anyone who knows me is aware that I've never given money to a beggar, sponsored a child, or donated to any such causes. In that regard I'm as cold as ice. The other day I had a very awkward moment at work when an elderly woman said to me "My husband used to shop here all the time, before he died...", to which I replied "that's unfortunate," with an completely fabricated frown on my face. Again, I admit that what I said and how I acted could be considered very inconsiderate.
The thing is I have reasons. I never give money to beggars or monetary aid to the less fortunate in general as I have no way of knowing exactly where my money will go. In the city where I live, there are over seven different places which serve free meals to the less fortunate, many of them serving three meals a day. I know that the beggars who are asking for money for food are either flat out lying or idiotic (in which case I couldn't care less anyway), as I know that a large portion of the massive tax I have to pay with every transaction goes into social service programs. I've also always been skeptical of donating to NGOs as many of them have a religious angle to them (no disrespect to anyone religious, I just don't believe people should have to practice in order to eat) and I'm never quite sure if my money is actually going to anyone who needs it. Certainly a majority of the donations go to a good cause, but I believe that human beings can be inherently greedy by nature, and someone will always be dipping their hands in the pot.
As for the poor old lady I offended, it wasn't actually my fault. I had to pretend to cry when my Grandmother died. The reality is I've come to the conclusion that if I force myself to feel bad about a situation that is completely out of my control, then I am worse off than attempting to feel at least neutral about it, preferably good. This is a philosophy I live by, and it works wonders when you have a shitty day.
I realized about an hour ago that all of those people who think that about me are dead wrong. I do feel empathy, and it really turns my stomach when I do. What happened an hour ago made me feel so awful that it spurred me into writing this long ass blog which will take me a fucking millennium to spell check.
Do you know that feeling when you haven't worked out in a while and you just really want to hit the gym? After scarfing down some Tim Hortons at 7:30pm, I suddenly got the urge to do just that. I began my workout at 8:00pm, finished by 9:00pm, and went to grab a tin of coarse ground coffee for my French Press. A few minutes later I line up to checkout behind this woman about Five years me senior, after which her boyfriend walks in front of me and gives me a death stare for being in close proximity to his wife/girlfriend. Thankfully this event was far from enough to spur this blogging jag as I probably would've done the same thing in his position, even though it was a bit unnecessary.
The boyfriend/husband asks the cashier how his night is going to make friendly conversation. While normally most people would reply with something witty or just an "it's going good", this young fellow decided to tell the boyfriend/husband about how he'd just ordered Skyrim and how amazing it is going to be. He didn't stop there however and began to delve into the overhauled skill system and what role your character plays in the realm of Tamriel and so forth. He explained it with so much passion and expertise that he unfortunately was swiping these folks items with the swiftness of an arthritic 90 year old (old people seem to be a common theme in this blog) attempting to tie their shoelace with a pair of ski gloves on.
But the couple was very kind to him, and even humoured him in his conversation as it was clear that the cashier was just a nice guy a few cards short of a deck, but enjoying every minute of telling someone about something he is really into. I'll admit, it was a bit odd and I'd be lying if I wasn't feeling a bit impatient after a few minutes passed by, but I'm never in much of a hurry and a few extra minutes makes no difference to me.
Enter a short and silver haired lady (another old person...) of about 60 years of age with a chip on her shoulder bigger than a sumo wrestler could eat. She could've moved to the next line over and been impeded a fraction of a second more, yet after thirty seconds of waiting just as our daft but kind cashier was reaching the crescendo of his explanation of what a Thu'um is, the lady says loudly "Would you stop talking? I don't know what you are on about but frankly it's ridiculous and you're wasting me time."
"a bitch is a bitch is a bitch is a bitch." - Hemingway
Jokes and theatrics aside, the look on the cashiers face was awful. All he could do was nod to the couple as they said thank you to him and left, as we all knew that he was choking back tears. It was literally like a child excitedly explaining something to someone only for the child to be told "shut up, I don't care what you are talking about." I couldn't even look back at the unholy bitch behind me and I left the building with the picture of a completely innocent, kind hearted, yet naive person with his eyes welling with tears, and the sound of him just barely managing to say he was sorry to the lady.
Even as I'm writing this line an hour and forty minutes later, I still have this disgusting stomach wrenching feeling in my gut. If it was something that came naturally to me, I think I'd be crying my eyes out right now. The fact that a human being could be so rude and downright cruel to another in that circumstance, over so little is almost too much for me to even think about.
Regardless, there are multiple ways to view this event. It wasn't the old hag's fault that her cashier was of special needs, and she very well might have a good reason to be in a hurry. Perhaps she even has a good reason for being a complete (I'm running out of synonyms for bitch here). It would've made no difference to her to politely ask him to pick up the pace, and it certainly would've made all the difference to the cashier if she had done so.
Does anyone have a different perspective on this situation, or do you think I'm correct in antagonizing the lady?
Furthermore, could someone give me some kind of idea why my uncle dying a few days ago has had far less impact on me than this?
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On February 10 2012 16:01 rad301 wrote:
Does anyone have a different perspective on this situation, or do you think I'm correct in antagonizing the lady?
This is going to be a really weird thing coming from a poster like me, but it's never a good idea to antagonize anyone, regardless of what it's for.. Even if it's morally acceptable from your perspective, your antagonism will eventually turn on you, and you'll become self-loathing..
That being said, yes she was DISGUSTING in her demeanor, and you would be fully within your rights to tell her the fuck off. People who can't express gentility like her are the exact same people who you'll more than likely see demanding it from you, it really annoys me. Even if she was having a bad day, I don't care, totally unacceptable.
edit ~ come to think of it, if I were you I would have been biting at the bit to have a go at her.. I would have been soooo slow in front of her to try to evoke some more anger from her, then completely destroyed her by calling her an uncouth sloth of a human who doesn't have the time for anyone but herself. well, i would have wanted to anyways, but because I'm not a shell of a human I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to harm someone like that, even if they are so disgusting..
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if you cant fake it, learn to fake it (or get a better job)
oh the answer to your other question is because everyone is insecure as fuck
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I think the lady was wrong for what she did but I don't think it was necessarily her fault. We've all shamed someone at some point for taking interest in something. You might not always mean it but never the less it happens. Especially when it's something that you might not understand, you just might pass it off as whimsical when to them it could mean the world. So I don't think she really meant to be mean or demeaning. I do however agree with you that her manners were terrible.
As for your uncle and your lack of emotion, if you ask me I think we're all milked of our compassion and empathy by advertisements and media. We're made to feel fake emotions so that we buy into all of the crap out there (i.e the Tim Hortons train driver and farmer commercial lol). So when there really is a reason it seems so small and insignificant in comparison to some dumb Tom Hanks or Spielberg movie (over-sentimental stuff you know?)
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"don't get sentimental it always ends up drivel"
Radiohead in "Let down"
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On February 10 2012 16:08 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 16:01 rad301 wrote:
Does anyone have a different perspective on this situation, or do you think I'm correct in antagonizing the lady?
This is going to be a really weird thing coming from a poster like me, but it's never a good idea to antagonize anyone, regardless of what it's for.. Even if it's morally acceptable from your perspective, your antagonism will eventually turn on you, and you'll become self-loathing.. That being said, yes she was DISGUSTING in her demeanor, and you would be fully within your rights to tell her the fuck off. People who can't express gentility like her are the exact same people who you'll more than likely see demanding it from you, it really annoys me. Even if she was having a bad day, I don't care, totally unacceptable. edit ~ come to think of it, if I were you I would have been biting at the bit to have a go at her.. I would have been soooo slow in front of her to try to evoke some more anger from her, then completely destroyed her by calling her an uncouth sloth of a human who doesn't have the time for anyone but herself. well, i would have wanted to anyways, but because I'm not a shell of a human I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to harm someone like that, even if they are so disgusting..
Part of me really did want to call her a bitch to her face, but at this point in my life I do everything I can to avoid conflict with people. I had to deal with the whole drunk stepfather cliche growing up so I guess it's just my brain telling me I've dealt with enough conflict already. I'm glad someone agrees that it would've been wholly deserved nonetheless.
That's an interesting point of view and I completely agree with you now that I think about it. Inevitably someone will have a unique perspective biased by a different set of morals, so I should've taken more care to speak objectively about the situation. I don't normally get so wound up about this kind of thing, so I guess I was emotionally charged.
By the way I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea that I'm claiming to be sociopathic, I think my crocodile tears come from just realizing that crying doesn't change anything (it didn't when I was young) and I'm better off not making myself feel bad.
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On February 10 2012 16:36 Sublimation wrote:
I think the lady was wrong for what she did but I don't think it was necessarily her fault. We've all shamed someone at some point for taking interest in something. You might not always mean it but never the less it happens. Especially when it's something that you might not understand, you just might pass it off as whimsical when to them it could mean the world. So I don't think she really meant to be mean or demeaning. I do however agree with you that her manners were terrible.
As for your uncle and your lack of emotion, if you ask me I think we're all milked of our compassion and empathy by advertisements and media. We're made to feel fake emotions so that we buy into all of the crap out there (i.e the Tim Hortons train driver and farmer commercial lol). So when there really is a reason it seems so small and insignificant in comparison to some dumb Tom Hanks or Spielberg movie (over-sentimental stuff you know?)
I agree. It's also quite ironic to me that I work in a sales environment where the job description is literally plastering a smile on my face all day and pretending to like people. Thankfully I'm good at that part as long as I don't have to feign remorse (such as the old lady incident) and I fortunate enough to work in a store where I can be honest with people when they are about to waste their money. It tends to pay off anyway.
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On February 10 2012 16:41 rad301 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 16:08 Endymion wrote:On February 10 2012 16:01 rad301 wrote:
Does anyone have a different perspective on this situation, or do you think I'm correct in antagonizing the lady?
This is going to be a really weird thing coming from a poster like me, but it's never a good idea to antagonize anyone, regardless of what it's for.. Even if it's morally acceptable from your perspective, your antagonism will eventually turn on you, and you'll become self-loathing.. That being said, yes she was DISGUSTING in her demeanor, and you would be fully within your rights to tell her the fuck off. People who can't express gentility like her are the exact same people who you'll more than likely see demanding it from you, it really annoys me. Even if she was having a bad day, I don't care, totally unacceptable. edit ~ come to think of it, if I were you I would have been biting at the bit to have a go at her.. I would have been soooo slow in front of her to try to evoke some more anger from her, then completely destroyed her by calling her an uncouth sloth of a human who doesn't have the time for anyone but herself. well, i would have wanted to anyways, but because I'm not a shell of a human I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to harm someone like that, even if they are so disgusting.. Part of me really did want to call her a bitch to her face, but at this point in my life I do everything I can to avoid conflict with people. I had to deal with the whole drunk stepfather cliche growing up so I guess it's just my brain telling me I've dealt with enough conflict already. I'm glad someone agrees that it would've been wholly deserved nonetheless. That's an interesting point of view and I completely agree with you now that I think about it. Inevitably someone will have a unique perspective biased by a different set of morals, so I should've taken more care to speak objectively about the situation. I don't normally get so wound up about this kind of thing, so I guess I was emotionally charged. By the way I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea that I'm claiming to be sociopathic, I think my crocodile tears come from just realizing that crying doesn't change anything (it didn't when I was young) and I'm better off not making myself feel bad.
This actually strikes me a lot, I used to think a lot like you did. However, I eventually figured out that I can't quantify stress, and I can't quantify loss, because it goes deeper than human rationale for me personally. I'm the most logic driven, repetitive person that I know, yet I can still break down even though my mind doesn't quantify any reason for breaking down, it's really something deeper.. I hope you can use this rare burst of emotion to your advantage, don't squander it by saying that it's not changing anything. Being human is a beautiful thing, don't throw it away and try to be a machine or you'll be really lonely (there is no point to isolating yourself like this), and you'll become really cynical..
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On February 10 2012 16:41 rad301 wrote:
Part of me really did want to call her a bitch to her face, but at this point in my life I do everything I can to avoid conflict with people. I had to deal with the whole drunk stepfather cliche growing up so I guess it's just my brain telling me I've dealt with enough conflict already. I'm glad someone agrees that it would've been wholly deserved nonetheless.
on the other hand, my friend who also grew up with the "drunk stepfather" business , is quite the opposite. she HATES conflict avoidance , saying that it never solves anything - if you have a problem with something then speak your mind, otherwise how else is it ever going to be resolved?!
more likely you are insecure and dont know how to express yourself in a potent manner, so you shy away from ever doing it and think its best to just stay clear. one of the many problems with this is you never learn things differently, never experiment, never find out if it really was better to do this or say that....
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On February 10 2012 17:08 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 16:41 rad301 wrote:
Part of me really did want to call her a bitch to her face, but at this point in my life I do everything I can to avoid conflict with people. I had to deal with the whole drunk stepfather cliche growing up so I guess it's just my brain telling me I've dealt with enough conflict already. I'm glad someone agrees that it would've been wholly deserved nonetheless.
on the other hand, my friend who also grew up with the "drunk stepfather" business , is quite the opposite. she HATES conflict avoidance , saying that it never solves anything - if you have a problem with something then speak your mind, otherwise how else is it ever going to be resolved?! more likely you are insecure and dont know how to express yourself in a potent manner, so you shy away from ever doing it and think its best to just stay clear. one of the many problems with this is you never learn things differently, never experiment, never find out if it really was better to do this or say that....
I respect what you are saying, but you are making a lot of assumptions about me with very little information. Your second paragraph is quite off the mark. Everyone's situation is different, and from what I gather from a few lines, your friend is a very different person from me and their way of interacting with people is not conducive to the way I do.
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On February 10 2012 16:01 rad301 wrote:
The thing is I have reasons.
I did not have time to read everything, but I do want to comment on this!
I appriciate it way more when someone conciously does something "empathetic" towards me. What I mean by cpnciously here is that I can see that this person has actually thought about why or how he/she would do it. It took them some time and some effort. That another sentient being come to the conclusion that my well-being is of importance is frankly one of the greatest feelings on earth. I do put this in contrast with people who are empathatic by nature, people that don't put thoughts behind why they do this things.
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Interesting that you mentioned your views towards empathy. From my experience, I've learned that feeling what you want to feel rather than what you're socially obliged to feel is incredibly comforting despite the overall mood of everybody else around you. Fake cry at a funeral if you must but don't lower your good vibrations with the sulky people around you just because it's "supposed to be that way" and/or it makes you "cold-hearted". I say this because it is kind of similar to what you expressed. I often cringe at those who go, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? HOW CAN YOU NOT CARE ABOUT OCCUPY WALL STREET?!" I don't necessarily believe it's greedy to not care about things that does not pertain to us, but rather, self-serving to simply put our full attention onto things that does. For some, they feel better putting a lot of attention to issues that aren't really directed towards them because it helps themselves.
In high school, I remember a girl announced to our chorus class that her mother just died. There were hundred four of us at the practice hall during the time and ~99% of us cried for the girl. It was definitely an unfortunate situation and I did feel sorry for her, but I didn't really know the girl and I especially didn't know her mom. So as much I "wanted" to care like everyone else, I didn't. However, if I wasn't such a believer of karma back then, I wouldn't have slapped my own wrist so hard for not being able to cry real tears.
For me, I prefer to feel happy whenever I can if I can reach out to such emotion.
And for the 60 year old lady who shouted at the cashier, I can understand why that would bother you a bit. But I also understand why she would be frustrated. May it be physical or stress-related, she was obviously not in a good condition to tolerate waiting in line if it means being a big bitch. Yes, she definitely could've be a lot more polite but some people are just less aligned with themselves. But that's their inner dilemma and not within our control. Personally, I don't think the cashier did anything wrong other than being slightly thoughtless of the people waiting. He was simply trying to enjoy his job. The lady could've said something like, "Excuse me, I'm in a hurry. Can we speed things up please?" instead but she didn't and that bothered you. I suppose you can learn so much from that event alone. Now you can decide with clarity about the kind of person you would want to carry yourself as if you were to be placed in impatient situations and you can also introspect on how to feel or act if you were to be in the cashier's shoes.
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On February 10 2012 17:34 rad301 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 17:08 FFGenerations wrote:On February 10 2012 16:41 rad301 wrote:
Part of me really did want to call her a bitch to her face, but at this point in my life I do everything I can to avoid conflict with people. I had to deal with the whole drunk stepfather cliche growing up so I guess it's just my brain telling me I've dealt with enough conflict already. I'm glad someone agrees that it would've been wholly deserved nonetheless.
on the other hand, my friend who also grew up with the "drunk stepfather" business , is quite the opposite. she HATES conflict avoidance , saying that it never solves anything - if you have a problem with something then speak your mind, otherwise how else is it ever going to be resolved?! more likely you are insecure and dont know how to express yourself in a potent manner, so you shy away from ever doing it and think its best to just stay clear. one of the many problems with this is you never learn things differently, never experiment, never find out if it really was better to do this or say that.... I respect what you are saying, but you are making a lot of assumptions about me with very little information. Your second paragraph is quite off the mark. Everyone's situation is different, and from what I gather from a few lines, your friend is a very different person from me and their way of interacting with people is not conducive to the way I do.
thats cool, if you dont relate to what im saying then im probs completely wrong 
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I am similar, I don't see the point of crying or feeling sadness.
Yet I understand what kind of passion people can have for a thing, no matter how stupid it is, and respect it. I mean for gods sake this is a VIDEO GAME community, full of people who play games that are strongly frowned upon by society. I give respect to people who do what they love and love what they do.
No more, no less.
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Great read, appreciate the effort.
My perspective on this is that empathy doesn't come naturally to you, rather your natural response is to reject it as you have associated it as a negative/unnecessary emotion. It seems you're already aware of this, however I personally think its more important analyzing why you are this way. You mentioned having a drunk stepfather and this may have a big thing to do with it.
I can relate in the sense that I don't like feeling upset/sad. Sure, you say, everybody is like this. But like you, when my grandfather died I didn't cry. I don't like to cry, ever, because the emotion seems unnecessary to me, it's a place that I don't like to go, it reminds me of bad childhood memories - specifically of my mum crying - sorry, wailing, and ever since then crying has never come easy to me.
I know why this is so, and that's because I am one of 5 children - the 2nd oldest, and for some reason as a kid I took responsibility in looking after my mum. In doing so, the role required me to be strong, which meant no crying, as it would only make things worse. So I developed a pretty damn tough shell, or 'walls' you could say, protecting the way I really felt which was sadness and anger.
My point is that you may carry a similar trait. Empathy is an unnecessary emotion to you on the surface because it resembles some form of weakness, or a role. This is something you should think about, because it
something worth understanding.
GL!
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What you feel, is what you feel, is what you feel. (trying to copy the bitch is a bitch is a bitch you wrote lol)
Anyways, I think in your case you feel stronger emotions when1) the subject lies closely within your own interests, and 2) you yourself are involved in the event. Your uncle passing away, or the woman in the beginning about her late husband, do not satisfy the two conditions I outlined above. Maybe you'll tear up when you stumble upon a piece of memory that you share with your late uncle, but until then I guess the impact won't settle in. I don't think it's an abnormal thing, yes you may be a person on the 'cold' side of emotional spectrum, but that doesn't make you any less human than others around you.
Regarding the poor Skyrim barista, it's another case of thinking-before-speaking-could-have-made-a-huge-difference (sorry for not finding a better phrase for that). It was getting late into night, certainly well past the peak hours, and I think it's fine that baristas get into friendly conversations with their customers. If I was in his shoes I'd have noticed the small queue build-up and kept my conversation short, but the excitement of Skyrim can do things to you. If the old lady thought twice about it use a little wit like "I like dragons too, but only after a coffee" then everyone could have had a couple laughs - all while the message is sent to the barista that he should get back on with his job.
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Kind of reminds me of something recently. I was just sitting at home after a rather long day of uni. I had the TV on in the background as I often do.
Now, I am by no means an emotional person. I don't say that in some way to brag, I just don't show a lot of emotions. I have a problem sharing with people, I tend to keep a lot of things inside.
But as I said, I had the TV on in the background. For one reason or another I actually started to pay attention to what was on TV.
There was a women who had given birth to a child, but the child was born with a defect which meant that it would more or less never be able to leave a hospital bed, never develop the mental capacity to even recognize his parents, and be in incredible pain for the rest of his life.
The mother explained how the doctors told her this news and how she had to make a choice in whether to keep the child alive or to let nature do its course and have it die.
I can't recall ever crying like that in my life.
I guess we all just have these moments. I think the crucial thing is that it's small and/or personal so we can relate to some degree.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 11 2012 00:41 OpticalShot wrote:
What you feel, is what you feel, is what you feel. (trying to copy the bitch is a bitch is a bitch you wrote lol)
Anyways, I think in your case you feel stronger emotions when1) the subject lies closely within your own interests, and 2) you yourself are involved in the event. Your uncle passing away, or the woman in the beginning about her late husband, do not satisfy the two conditions I outlined above. Maybe you'll tear up when you stumble upon a piece of memory that you share with your late uncle, but until then I guess the impact won't settle in. I don't think it's an abnormal thing, yes you may be a person on the 'cold' side of emotional spectrum, but that doesn't make you any less human than others around you.
Regarding the poor Skyrim barista, it's another case of thinking-before-speaking-could-have-made-a-huge-difference (sorry for not finding a better phrase for that). It was getting late into night, certainly well past the peak hours, and I think it's fine that baristas get into friendly conversations with their customers. If I was in his shoes I'd have noticed the small queue build-up and kept my conversation short, but the excitement of Skyrim can do things to you. If the old lady thought twice about it use a little wit like "I like dragons too, but only after a coffee" then everyone could have had a couple laughs - all while the message is sent to the barista that he should get back on with his job.
I think this is right on. I feel like I'm the same way.
I don't get emotional about stuff that isn't right in my face. When my grandfather died, I didn't really feel 'bad' as I rarely saw him and never experienced his death first hand. The same thing happened when my uncle died, who I was much closer to, until I went to the funeral. Once I saw his body and felt his coldness, I broke down.
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On February 11 2012 00:41 OpticalShot wrote:
What you feel, is what you feel, is what you feel. (trying to copy the bitch is a bitch is a bitch you wrote lol)
Anyways, I think in your case you feel stronger emotions when1) the subject lies closely within your own interests, and 2) you yourself are involved in the event. Your uncle passing away, or the woman in the beginning about her late husband, do not satisfy the two conditions I outlined above. Maybe you'll tear up when you stumble upon a piece of memory that you share with your late uncle, but until then I guess the impact won't settle in. I don't think it's an abnormal thing, yes you may be a person on the 'cold' side of emotional spectrum, but that doesn't make you any less human than others around you.
Regarding the poor Skyrim barista, it's another case of thinking-before-speaking-could-have-made-a-huge-difference (sorry for not finding a better phrase for that). It was getting late into night, certainly well past the peak hours, and I think it's fine that baristas get into friendly conversations with their customers. If I was in his shoes I'd have noticed the small queue build-up and kept my conversation short, but the excitement of Skyrim can do things to you. If the old lady thought twice about it use a little wit like "I like dragons too, but only after a coffee" then everyone could have had a couple laughs - all while the message is sent to the barista that he should get back on with his job.
I've thought about what you said and I think you are on to something. I never knew my uncle very well, and while he was a very nice person to be around and quite kind in general (He bought me and my brother Halo 2 when it first came out, which was a big fucking deal back then), I really didn't know much about him at all. I also haven't even interacted with him in several years, so it's quite likely that the time frame has also detached me from the situation as well.
It was quite an unfortunate situation. I wouldn't have even batted an eye if she had just been a little more kind the skyrim barista, hell even to politely ask him to shut up would've been enough. She had every right to be impatient and tell him to pick up the pace, but a little bit of tact would've avoided the situation completely. Agreed.
All this input has really got me thinking on a number of levels. I've already identified a few other events which seem to put me in an irregular emotional state and it would be interesting to identify why exactly each event has significance over others.
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EPT
