• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:59
CEST 10:59
KST 17:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support!
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 694 users

Rachmaninov Prelude Op.32 No.3 in E major

Blogs > forelmashi
Post a Reply
forelmashi
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
421 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 07:21:20
February 06 2012 07:20 GMT
#1

sheet music: http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/82/IMSLP00344-Rachmaninoff_-_13_Preludes__Op_32.pdf page 9 (62)

I thought I'd revisit the piece tonight and provide a little more advanced, but not deep, commentary on the composition. It would help if you could read music or understand some basic music theory, but it's not necessary.

This prelude is in E major, and it evokes the sound of bells, a frequent theme and subject of Rachmaninov. E major is considered a very bright and majestic key. It's interesting to remember that different instruments, historical and modern could only play in certain ranges and keys, and also that tuning was not always done to equal temperament. In fact even today, for instance, strings tune by ear to perfect intervals rather than equal temperament. The frequencies of all the notes are also different of course, and this all contributes to keys being associated with certain "personalities."

A feature of Romantic music, and especially Rachmaninov, is the prominent use of scales, both diatonic and chromatic. This prelude is full of ascending and descending scales and rising and falling passages. For example:
[image loading]

Now it is a general principle of orchestration and composition, when you want to crescendo or accent, to add more notes and instruments. This is a "natural" way of adding loudness as opposed to an "artificial" way which is to just play louder. Consider the following passage. Why did Rachmaninov write it the way he did?

[image loading]
In blue, I circled the main melodic lines in the left hand. With red circles I designated the beats when extra notes were added in addition to the main melodic line, and in green I circled the 4 note rhythmic theme. You can clearly see a reason and pattern to the extra harmonic notes. This kind of advanced compositional technique is a feature strictly of the later Romantic period.

The topics in this post were kind of arcane, but I hope you enjoyed it.

****
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
February 06 2012 07:28 GMT
#2
Sounds like someone rushing through somewhere beautiful.
bananaman533
Profile Joined June 2010
86 Posts
February 06 2012 07:30 GMT
#3
Much thanks for the insight into composing! Enjoyed the piece as well.
forelmashi
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
421 Posts
February 06 2012 07:32 GMT
#4
On February 06 2012 16:30 bananaman533 wrote:
Much thanks for the insight into composing! Enjoyed the piece as well.

sigh you have it backwards
husniack
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
203 Posts
February 06 2012 07:55 GMT
#5
On February 06 2012 16:32 forelmashi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 16:30 bananaman533 wrote:
Much thanks for the insight into composing! Enjoyed the piece as well.

sigh you have it backwards


what's he have backwards? You gave insight into composing.
SoLaR[i.C]
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
United States2969 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 08:14:53
February 06 2012 08:14 GMT
#6
Nice work. Rachmaninov is my absolute favorite composer. I'd love to see some analysis of the last movement (allegro scherzando) of his Piano Concerto #2. That's the section that sounds almost 'Lawrence of Arabia-esque" right?
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 08:25:04
February 06 2012 08:18 GMT
#7
Nice initiative and effort but some of the statements you made are quite "debateable."


"In fact even today, for instance, strings tune by ear to perfect intervals rather than equal temperament."

Not always. String players sometimes use other tuning systems depending on situation.

"A feature of Romantic music, and especially Rachmaninov, is the prominent use of scales, both diatonic and chromatic."

I wouldn't say Rachmaninoff uses different scales any more prominently than most romantic composers. Better examples would be Debussy, Ravel (if we decide to include them), Wagner, and Mahler.

"You can clearly see a reason and pattern to the extra harmonic notes. This kind of advanced compositional technique is a feature strictly of the later Romantic period."

Quite a bold claim. I don't think finding a counter-example would be too difficult.

On the other hand, note the notes played by left hand thumb on the last excerpt. It seems to mimic the four-note theme, albeit in syncopation and augmented.

Of course, there is so much depth to be analyzed in any of the famous composer's works; we've only scratched the surface here, to be sure.

You should analyze the Rach 3 next
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
February 06 2012 08:19 GMT
#8
On February 06 2012 16:55 husniack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 16:32 forelmashi wrote:
On February 06 2012 16:30 bananaman533 wrote:
Much thanks for the insight into composing! Enjoyed the piece as well.

sigh you have it backwards


what's he have backwards? You gave insight into composing.


You should enjoy the piece first.
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
February 06 2012 10:53 GMT
#9
On February 06 2012 17:18 phosphorylation wrote:
Nice initiative and effort but some of the statements you made are quite "debateable."


"In fact even today, for instance, strings tune by ear to perfect intervals rather than equal temperament."

Not always. String players sometimes use other tuning systems depending on situation.

"A feature of Romantic music, and especially Rachmaninov, is the prominent use of scales, both diatonic and chromatic."

I wouldn't say Rachmaninoff uses different scales any more prominently than most romantic composers. Better examples would be Debussy, Ravel (if we decide to include them), Wagner, and Mahler.

"You can clearly see a reason and pattern to the extra harmonic notes. This kind of advanced compositional technique is a feature strictly of the later Romantic period."

Quite a bold claim. I don't think finding a counter-example would be too difficult.

On the other hand, note the notes played by left hand thumb on the last excerpt. It seems to mimic the four-note theme, albeit in syncopation and augmented.

Of course, there is so much depth to be analyzed in any of the famous composer's works; we've only scratched the surface here, to be sure.

You should analyze the Rach 3 next




i dont agree with the claim either. strictly of later romantic period? i think it goes back all the way to early baroque and renaissance, maybe earlier, though their rules and form were much different. though rachmaninoff i think was more influenced by more recent and closer composers such like chopin, liszt, and the five.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
February 06 2012 17:14 GMT
#10
On February 06 2012 17:18 phosphorylation wrote:
Nice initiative and effort but some of the statements you made are quite "debateable."


"In fact even today, for instance, strings tune by ear to perfect intervals rather than equal temperament."

Not always. String players sometimes use other tuning systems depending on situation.

"A feature of Romantic music, and especially Rachmaninov, is the prominent use of scales, both diatonic and chromatic."

I wouldn't say Rachmaninoff uses different scales any more prominently than most romantic composers. Better examples would be Debussy, Ravel (if we decide to include them), Wagner, and Mahler.

"You can clearly see a reason and pattern to the extra harmonic notes. This kind of advanced compositional technique is a feature strictly of the later Romantic period."

Quite a bold claim. I don't think finding a counter-example would be too difficult.

On the other hand, note the notes played by left hand thumb on the last excerpt. It seems to mimic the four-note theme, albeit in syncopation and augmented.

Of course, there is so much depth to be analyzed in any of the famous composer's works; we've only scratched the surface here, to be sure.

You should analyze the Rach 3 next

Essentially what I wanted to say... has been said already.
Still, good to see fellow TLers attempt to dive deeper into the music.
[TLMS] REBOOT
Amanebak
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Czech Republic528 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 18:20:00
February 06 2012 18:10 GMT
#11
Well, I have nothing to add but to say that I like these kinds of posts. Thank you.
And I appreciate that I can follow the score in the video. It's helpful.
BW
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
February 06 2012 18:23 GMT
#12
Nice post. Do more. :-)
forelmashi
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
421 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-07 07:50:58
February 07 2012 07:39 GMT
#13
I think that you'll find that the way composers write for solo piano reflects the way they write for full orchestra. Rachmaninov's works in particular are incredibly orchestral, he being both a master pianist and composer.

I will consider blogging about the concertos next, by request. The concertos, being quite lengthy, are naturally harder to discuss, but we'll see.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1389
Hyuk 670
Leta 331
Bisu 164
BeSt 157
ToSsGirL 134
JulyZerg 128
Zeus 109
Dewaltoss 104
Jaedong 60
[ Show more ]
Hyun 51
sorry 46
soO 41
Sacsri 33
NaDa 28
ajuk12(nOOB) 23
Soma 22
yabsab 8
Sharp 4
ivOry 3
Britney 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe260
BananaSlamJamma194
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss314
allub187
Other Games
ceh9591
Happy268
Fuzer 163
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1214
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH261
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• LUISG 0
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt715
Other Games
• WagamamaTV185
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1h 1m
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 2h
OSC
1d 5h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.