• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:31
CEST 22:31
KST 05:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack0Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19
StarCraft 2
General
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 770 users

[H] ZvP

Blogs > Ryndika
Post a Reply
Ryndika
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1489 Posts
January 25 2012 11:38 GMT
#1
http://www.mediafire.com/?q772cl9nacbh6na
Here is replay of me losing.

I'd like you to point out all mistakes, question my decisions and give few hints or tips if you know any. My main problems are:
-Recognize 3gate from 4gate when my OL gets shot down in some maps.
-midgame plan ( after 15pool, 16hat, 20gas or 14gas14pool 21hat 22queen 24RW)
-Engaging in teh right way. Especially against templar based army like HT, 2 colo, archons...
-Dealing with 2-3 prism.

I also wonder when it's generally expected to put spine+spore per base?

Ok let's talk about the replay;

I decided to open 14gas 14pool this time (I just felt metalopolis isnt very good FFE or nexus first map and 14gas should be generally just fine).
After that it looked like he is going 3gate expand (Which he obviously wasn't) so I decided to do little timing with roach/ling and macro behind it.
After that I scouted him and tried to find if he is going colo yet, he wasnt so I thought maybe I could do some hydras here if he goes timing with stalker + immo OR he just stays there and I can keep little hydra count in my army (shoot prisms, obs, ready for SG trans).

I really expected some kind of timing around 11m mark but somewhere 12-14 I thought he probably isn't going for timing and is just massing up units in 2base so I decided to prepare for that by macroing and upgrading. My unit compo aim was roachhydra corruptor with infestor support.

Well after that I just engaged very badly, I think I should've kept 2ctrl grp where 1 is at his nat and 1 ready to 'beef' up his army from front. Good idea?

+ Show Spoiler +
((I know i have infestors in 1grp but I'm learning that because Im going for locational binds instead of unit specific binds))


***
as useful as teasalt
Phyrigian
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
New Zealand1332 Posts
January 25 2012 11:54 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Clazziquai10
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore1949 Posts
January 25 2012 13:19 GMT
#3
Wrong section.........................................-.- "
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
January 25 2012 13:26 GMT
#4
to be honest, I felt that the biggest mistake was that one engagement.
you oveextended yourself and had to fight his deathball which ends up losing all your army.
you could have just attack his 3rd while he pokes around which could buy some time to get some broodlords to come out.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Ryndika
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1489 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 14:04:50
January 25 2012 13:58 GMT
#5
This is in blog, because I think this is blog material because it's very person related. I don't want strat forum to be flooded with [H] topics, especially with problems like this.
I also think this qualifies all strat forum rules.
E: So I'd appreciate future posts was not that my written blog is in blog section.

I'll give this a day or two here and post it again in strat forum if necessary.
as useful as teasalt
Narcind
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Sweden2489 Posts
January 25 2012 15:40 GMT
#6
I'm watching the replay so I'll just add things here as I see them

-personally I would've taken all drones rather than just 2 off gas, personal preference though I guess
-you put drones back on gas WAY too early, imo
-dont need a roach warren that early
-be better about using your first 4 lings, 2 on the watchtowers immediately, 1 goes to look for hidden stuff, other 1 sits outside his base and pokes the front every so often
-made 7 roaches and 12 lings when there's absolutely no reason for you to do that, scout the front
-your evo should probably be earlier if you're going to scout so little, DT's would've just killed you
-made 9 hydras (and there's some more later, as well as some roaches, cba counting how many) for no reason at all, he's not going to move out with only 4 gates to reinforce
-with this army you made, you just sit and do nothing at all
-you dont scout the robo bay or the double robo facility until very late, thankfully you'd made a spire anyway though, but you don't make corruptors?
-not scouting his third with a ling or an overlord
-TERRIBLE angle of engagement
-running your corruptors back and forth for no reason during most of the engagement
-another bad engagement, why rush into things if he's not pushing the issue? he's basically on one base at this point, just transferring probes to his third
-you never put the macro hatch in our natural in a control group
-you end the game with 48 drones, need more

These are the very big, obvious things I can see by just watching through it on x4 once, I'm sure there's more stuff to be found if you were to watch through it more thoroughly though.
Ryndika
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1489 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 17:02:20
January 25 2012 17:00 GMT
#7
On January 26 2012 00:40 Canas wrote:
I'm watching the replay so I'll just add things here as I see them

-personally I would've taken all drones rather than just 2 off gas, personal preference though I guess
-you put drones back on gas WAY too early, imo
-dont need a roach warren that early
-be better about using your first 4 lings, 2 on the watchtowers immediately, 1 goes to look for hidden stuff, other 1 sits outside his base and pokes the front every so often
-made 7 roaches and 12 lings when there's absolutely no reason for you to do that, scout the front
-your evo should probably be earlier if you're going to scout so little, DT's would've just killed you
-made 9 hydras (and there's some more later, as well as some roaches, cba counting how many) for no reason at all, he's not going to move out with only 4 gates to reinforce
-with this army you made, you just sit and do nothing at all
-you dont scout the robo bay or the double robo facility until very late, thankfully you'd made a spire anyway though, but you don't make corruptors?
-not scouting his third with a ling or an overlord
-TERRIBLE angle of engagement
-running your corruptors back and forth for no reason during most of the engagement
-another bad engagement, why rush into things if he's not pushing the issue? he's basically on one base at this point, just transferring probes to his third
-you never put the macro hatch in our natural in a control group
-you end the game with 48 drones, need more

These are the very big, obvious things I can see by just watching through it on x4 once, I'm sure there's more stuff to be found if you were to watch through it more thoroughly though.

Yuh, there was some little slips that I normally don't do but ty for pointing them out too. (like drone count and ling scout).
I searched his base for robo bay but couldn't find one (I was too tired maybe because I didn't look all of the base). I made roaches and lings for timing, I've been told that I should trade armies with toss rather than just let both get maxed out. This denied his nat, but was this decision viable or do you mean that it was bad? You talk about the units only.

I made hydras because I thought I had alrdy sat 3rd and 3bases with saturated is just fine amount? Especially if I see him massing up units with immortals, 2 base and barely any tech (again I assumed he doesnt have robo bay since I flought thru his base). I made units for attack that never came. I noticed this and I assumed he would take 3rd. Well I was ready to go for his 3rd but just walked thru map to my gold. Here I made the bad engagement.
About the corruptors, I'm not sure but should I just a-move them above stalkers or pull them back when rest of the army is that far behind?
I kept ling in his 3rd, he killed it and attacked to my main, I knew he is going to take 3rd behind this or then he just doesn't, I would remax either way and go to his 3rd after destroying his army.
I could've had sent OL to his base but I'm not very good with some maps + OL placements. I couldnt remember metalopolis OL pattern. I also was thinking about 3gate expand at that point and I thought I had pretty decent tools for timing attack at that point so I can deny his nat.

e: I made RW at 24 because I don't know when to make it. I've asked few times and answer has been 24-26 against non FFE.
e2: I wasn't sure what to do with army. He had no 3rd, was camping at his nat and I didn't have tech for drops. I didn't think it would help much in this situation with these units.
as useful as teasalt
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O240
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs LamboLIVE!
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2803
ComeBackTV 2504
IndyStarCraft 726
WardiTV468
3DClanTV 201
CranKy Ducklings171
EnkiAlexander 138
Rex65
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2803
IndyStarCraft 726
Rex 65
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 240
NaDa 7
Dota 2
capcasts291
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 220
febbydoto13
Counter-Strike
fl0m3371
Fnx 2231
Stewie2K652
flusha354
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1928
Mew2King1307
AZ_Axe304
Westballz15
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu597
Khaldor431
Other Games
Grubby3173
B2W.Neo962
KnowMe108
mouzStarbuck105
Sick32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3014
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta29
• LUISG 23
• Hupsaiya 13
• Adnapsc2 3
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki36
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22254
• WagamamaTV936
League of Legends
• Doublelift4334
Other Games
• imaqtpie1654
• Shiphtur524
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
14h 29m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
WardiTV European League
1d 19h
Online Event
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.