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I'll be honest, this is going to be a sort of stream of consciousness/rant more than it will be particularly enlightening or entertaining, but I feel it'd be best that I just sort of toss it out there.
Today, I sat down to watch the first SC2 games in over 2 weeks. Being sucked back into music and the release of a video game sort of sapped all of my attention, but when I came back, I found myself asking a question that has almost been a constant with SC2: Do I really feel like watching right now?
Most of the time, the answer is yes, but it's almost that way by default. Sometimes I question that decision as I end up tuning into a particularly bad PvP, or some "Epic" ZvP lategame that ends in the often frustrating end of "Did the protoss get all of the broodlords in that vortex?" that decides everything. You end up in a ball-on-ball PvT in which if you broke down the entire game, you could ostensibly boil it down to a singular engagement.
Not every game, or even more recently, not even the majority of games end up feeling bad, heck, nowadays the majority of the games are okay. But personally, much to the chargrin of most newer SC2 fans, I and a reasonable number of BW fans alike will forever look at SC2 in the shadow of Brood War. More on that in a bit.
That sort of melancholy of "Well, I guess that was okay" that settles in over a good number of SC2 games, however, is often briefly washed away by a brilliant and honestly fun game or two. Some entire nights of GSL have dispelled this feeling for months at a time. Today, this happened during Hero vs Dimaga.
At somewhere along the midway mark of that game, I recall audibly sighing as I looked at the 20 or so spine crawlers being put up at the major choke for Dimaga, with the camera panning back over Hero's army which looked pitiful. Much like many SC2 games before it, I figured I could glance at the armies, imagine them A-moved at eachother (with spells included) and I could turn off the screen, and simply watch the liquipedia logs for the inevitable result, but it was not long after that I got that feeling. The same feeling I get when I watch most Brood War games.
For the next 10 minutes or so, I kinda left my jaw on my spacebar key as I watched Hero do something that I've seen him do quite a few times before, but in few other situations did it take me aback as much as it did here. Most of the time, when I see Hero whip out the insane multitasking, it's often amazing to watch, but there isn't as much tension. It's usually quite clear what Hero is doing to his opponent and the fallout that will come of it.
However, in this game, the tension was noticably higher, There were engagements everywhere, The casters couldn't even keep up with the sheer amount of things Hero was doing. Every time they would survey the wreckage of one drop, you could see another happening on the minimap. And the best part of all, is there was no guarantee any of it would be worth it. That boring build-up by Dimaga ended in a ball of units that, if left unchecked in a march across the map, would end Hero almost instantly.
When the dust settled, I sat back and mentally said to myself something I don't get to do in SC2 as often as I would like; "Well, THAT was unexpected". As pompous as it feels to even hold this opinion, I could look back at it and say "THAT is starcraft." in a slightly elitist tone that even implies that I have the right to define the game. And with that, I cycle back into that hope, that hope that somewhere down the road, SC2 will be all about games like this. Games where I get sucked into rather than go through the motions with.
We're getting there, but every stubborn decision from Blizzard or boring one-two battle game hurts, because even when I try my hardest not to internally, SC2 will always live with the same expectations I hold for Brood War, and it always leads to that same disappointment again.
I'm not sure if that post went anywhere, but it feels a bit better to get that down more than anything else. [/terrible wall of text]
 
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This post sums up my feelings about SC2 almost exactly!
It's very off and on. Sometimes when I'm watching games I'll be really into it, really inspired, and really optimistic about where SC2 is headed. Other times, games just feel really "meh" and get me discouraged. Late game PvZ infestor/BL vs archon toilet is especially depressing to watch for me.
Here's to hoping we see an increase of the former in the future. The potential is there, and I think Blizzard has the means to make it happen if they play their cards right.
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United States5045 Posts
5 stars, kibibit. I admit, the fear of feeling that disappointment is precisely why I stayed away from delving into the SC2 scene all this time (MLG was more about meeting and having fun with TLers than about SC2 for me, anyways).
We should meet up sometimes. Make up for Dave and Busters.
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From what I gather, it was a situation where superior multitasking (read as: effort, skill) overcame an advantageous situation. This, in essence, is something that should be essential to any video game - the player who tries harder and creates more opportunities, wins. The problem with SC2 right now is, from my limited experience, that this is rarely the case. Like you described the vortex situation, it seems that players are content to throw imbalanced shit at each other, as opposed to creating empirically complicated or difficult plays such as dropping multiple bases. This is a natural reaction to a game that has such high DPS and powerful spells. With the advent of the expansions, there will be Imba Zerg Shit 2.0 vs Imba Protoss Shit 2.0, once again forcing people into this pattern. I expect that multitasking ability won't be a more commonplace event until after the last expansion, after the game has been 'figured out' to the level of 2007 BW (it probably won't take nearly as long after the last expansion as it did after Brood War, I think). Hopefully (for SC2 fans I guess) by then the work ethic changes and desire to think outside the imba box grows, because only a player who plays differently from the masses stands out. Right now, players who stand out are like nails that get hammered in, as the saying goes. More games like the one you described need to happen from one player consistently for it to become a hallmark of success and skill. Because honestly, unless you become one of the best due to this style of play, it will never trend. Hero doing it is a good start.
- 2 cents from an ignorant elitist BW player.
P.S. And yea you guys fucked up not showing up to D&B.
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On January 21 2012 15:23 Jealous wrote:
From what I gather, it was a situation where superior multitasking (read as: effort, skill) overcame an advantageous situation. This, in essence, is something that should be essential to any video game - the player who tries harder and creates more opportunities, wins. The problem with SC2 right now is, from my limited experience, that this is rarely the case. Like you described the vortex situation, it seems that players are content to throw imbalanced shit at each other, as opposed to creating empirically complicated or difficult plays such as dropping multiple bases. This is a natural reaction to a game that has such high DPS and powerful spells. With the advent of the expansions, there will be Imba Zerg Shit 2.0 vs Imba Protoss Shit 2.0, once again forcing people into this pattern. I expect that multitasking ability won't be a more commonplace event until after the last expansion, after the game has been 'figured out' to the level of 2007 BW (it probably won't take nearly as long after the last expansion as it did after Brood War, I think). Hopefully (for SC2 fans I guess) by then the work ethic changes and desire to think outside the imba box grows, because only a player who plays differently from the masses stands out. Right now, players who stand out are like nails that get hammered in, as the saying goes. More games like the one you described need to happen from one player consistently for it to become a hallmark of success and skill. Because honestly, unless you become one of the best due to this style of play, it will never trend. Hero doing it is a good start.
- 2 cents from an ignorant elitist BW player.
P.S. And yea you guys fucked up not showing up to D&B.
Hey, I completely fucked my back, or else I would have shown up. Getting from my chair to the bathroom was an uphill battle on the fourth, hell enough running out to D&B. :|
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On January 21 2012 20:54 Kibibit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 15:23 Jealous wrote:
From what I gather, it was a situation where superior multitasking (read as: effort, skill) overcame an advantageous situation. This, in essence, is something that should be essential to any video game - the player who tries harder and creates more opportunities, wins. The problem with SC2 right now is, from my limited experience, that this is rarely the case. Like you described the vortex situation, it seems that players are content to throw imbalanced shit at each other, as opposed to creating empirically complicated or difficult plays such as dropping multiple bases. This is a natural reaction to a game that has such high DPS and powerful spells. With the advent of the expansions, there will be Imba Zerg Shit 2.0 vs Imba Protoss Shit 2.0, once again forcing people into this pattern. I expect that multitasking ability won't be a more commonplace event until after the last expansion, after the game has been 'figured out' to the level of 2007 BW (it probably won't take nearly as long after the last expansion as it did after Brood War, I think). Hopefully (for SC2 fans I guess) by then the work ethic changes and desire to think outside the imba box grows, because only a player who plays differently from the masses stands out. Right now, players who stand out are like nails that get hammered in, as the saying goes. More games like the one you described need to happen from one player consistently for it to become a hallmark of success and skill. Because honestly, unless you become one of the best due to this style of play, it will never trend. Hero doing it is a good start.
- 2 cents from an ignorant elitist BW player.
P.S. And yea you guys fucked up not showing up to D&B. Hey, I completely fucked my back, or else I would have shown up. Getting from my chair to the bathroom was an uphill battle on the fourth, hell enough running out to D&B. :|
Sorry ): Forgot about that. Are you better now?
EDIT: Did any of what I said hold water? lolol
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I find it strange that you put forward Dimaga vs Hero as evidence of a good SC2 series.
To me, it just looked like Dima was turtling on mass spines and Hero was picking him apart with drops that Dima should have been able to fend off, and then forcing Dima into unfavourable engagements and killing him. Maybe I'm just cynical, but the series didn't look close at all and was only as close as it was because turtling on mass spines to build up mass Brood/Infestor looks really strong. Hero only ever looked like he could lose because he dropped the ball on a number of occasions in Game 1/2, and then just didn't screw up in Game 3.
Perhaps you liked it because it was close. I disliked it because it was scrappy, both of them playing reasonably well but neither playing brilliantly.
For me, the best recent series was a PvP (weirdly enough, considering how disliked that Matchup is). See MC vs JYP in HSC4. Now THAT was an epic series, with an epic story and epic games. It ended up at 3-2, with the 5th game originally a draw so they had to replay it. Tense as fuck, and all the way through the micro was so good it just blew my mind.
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I thought it was a pretty boring game and it was evident that Hero was doing that shit because he knew he could never lose in that situation. By the point he took 4 bases safely he knew he had it in the bag. Everything else was pretty unnecessary. Hell, he even tech'd to carriers. Carriers aren't good even if you can get them with full ugprades.
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On January 21 2012 22:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I thought it was a pretty boring game and it was evident that Hero was doing that shit because he knew he could never lose in that situation. By the point he took 4 bases safely he knew he had it in the bag. Everything else was pretty unnecessary. Hell, he even tech'd to carriers. Carriers aren't good even if you can get them with full ugprades.
Exactly. Void Rays are 10* better than Carriers en masse because they take so little time (comparatively) to tech to. Carriers are normally only used when either
a) You are trying to please the crowd,
b) you had a mindfuck (MC vs DRG..) or
c) you are HongUn.
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Awesome blog totally agree. 
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On January 21 2012 22:25 SeaSwift wrote:
I find it strange that you put forward Dimaga vs Hero as evidence of a good SC2 series.
To me, it just looked like Dima was turtling on mass spines and Hero was picking him apart with drops that Dima should have been able to fend off, and then forcing Dima into unfavourable engagements and killing him. Maybe I'm just cynical, but the series didn't look close at all and was only as close as it was because turtling on mass spines to build up mass Brood/Infestor looks really strong. Hero only ever looked like he could lose because he dropped the ball on a number of occasions in Game 1/2, and then just didn't screw up in Game 3.
Perhaps you liked it because it was close. I disliked it because it was scrappy, both of them playing reasonably well but neither playing brilliantly.
For me, the best recent series was a PvP (weirdly enough, considering how disliked that Matchup is). See MC vs JYP in HSC4. Now THAT was an epic series, with an epic story and epic games. It ended up at 3-2, with the 5th game originally a draw so they had to replay it. Tense as fuck, and all the way through the micro was so good it just blew my mind.
Well, in defense of that game (note, not the entire series, it was simply that game), up until the point where Hero started dropping, I clearly said the game was boring at that point. Similarly, with Hero's current army composition, if Dimaga had no inclination to stay at home and pushed out, assuming he didn't fly his broods into a toilet he would have won, no questions asked.
Dimaga was playing about as well as you could expect, and once you take having full vision of what is going on out of the equation, Hero made a bunch of solid decisions that were just completely shut down, up until the point where he was dropping like mad. Had he not worn Dimaga down and kept his opponents corruptors busy and/or dead, had he built the same carriers or even the more sensible Void Rays, he would have been steamrolled.
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On January 21 2012 22:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I thought it was a pretty boring game and it was evident that Hero was doing that shit because he knew he could never lose in that situation. By the point he took 4 bases safely he knew he had it in the bag. Everything else was pretty unnecessary. Hell, he even tech'd to carriers. Carriers aren't good even if you can get them with full ugprades.
No, he didn't have it in the bag, had he simply teched to carriers and sat back he would have died. Had he sat back and built void rays he would have died. The damage that Hero managed to do ended up meaning that any air to ground unit he built would seal the win, but without it he would have either died in transition, or died to mass fungal/corruptor.
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On January 22 2012 02:34 Kibibit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 22:43 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I thought it was a pretty boring game and it was evident that Hero was doing that shit because he knew he could never lose in that situation. By the point he took 4 bases safely he knew he had it in the bag. Everything else was pretty unnecessary. Hell, he even tech'd to carriers. Carriers aren't good even if you can get them with full ugprades. No, he didn't have it in the bag, had he simply teched to carriers and sat back he would have died. Had he sat back and built void rays he would have died. The damage that Hero managed to do ended up meaning that any air to ground unit he built would seal the win, but without it he would have either died in transition, or died to mass fungal/corruptor.
I disagree here.
If Hero had not managed to kill all of Dimaga's bases, Dimaga would still, I assume, have lost all his BLs, Banelings and Infestors to the Archon Toilet, and his mass Void Rays (or Carriers, or whatever) would still have been completely uncontested. The outcome may have been closer, but Hero would still have won comfortably.
The ninja base murder was only necessary because Hero predicted Dimaga to split his Broods - if he had done that, Dima would have had a good chance of winning. He didn't, so Hero crushed him. The base killing was just overkill.
Of course, it's hard to prove either way. It goes without saying that all of what I just say is merely IMHO.
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EPT
