EPTWrong kind of smart? - Page 4
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kirdie
Germany221 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:53 Vansetsu wrote: Well, I took the time to read the blog, so I suppose I can attempt to give some advice. However, usually anytime I respond to these kinds of blogs sincerely, it usually just ends up with me just redirecting someone to simpler forms of logic, so please don't take any of this post as condecending. So, basically in short, you are a fluent and articulate person, and the people around you in said enviroment either aren't or choose not to be as so. From there, you have to decide what your goals are, what is interfereing with said goals, and if there is a compromise. First of all, what is your immeadiate goal? - Is it to learn something in the class? If so, does that require your personal articulated insight? You have already stated your unwillingness to apporach a conversation in a different manner, and also that you like to contest ideas to better understand them, rather than to simply try and be satisfied with the information that is given. Compromise: What, Why, and Worth. - There is no right or wrong here, but you took this class, so you should decide if it's content is still valuable to you if you cannot reach a compromise with your approach to what is being learned and your approach to class contribution. If you can reach a compromise, then how? Well, you can limit yourself to words of laymans context, only going deeper if the conversation requires. If you seek the approval of your peers and teacher, that requires a much different type of compromise, one where you will ironically compromise yourself to conform to a milder conversation tone. Regardless, i find in one vs group scenarios, the party with the olive branch is usually the one, and you have to decide if compromising any part of your approach/self is worth anything you may want to get from the class. So, again in short, are you interested in the content of this class, social and/or educational or neither. If so, are you willing to compromise? If not, was there a problem to begin with? Hope any of that helps. My immediate goal: offer a new perspective 2. get an active debate with contrasting viewpoints. I dont want to compromise because it completely goes against my understanding of a worthy discussion. The entire discipline is like this (meaning all classes act like this as far as my own have [in the 300-level]), so I'm not expecting differently from courses that disinterest me even more. I like the content, not the drive of the discussion or how I enter the class. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Your teacher seems like a bitch for not being supportive at all. As far as your rhetoric goes: there's nothing inherently wrong with using big words... just don't become a teacher. Any blog post with Billy Joel is fantastic  Yeah, I think she was just unhappy with how I shifted the pace or discussion. It had bouts of silence when I made a point (right or wrong) :x Yes, Billy Joel is amazing @_@ | ||
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
When participating in class discussions, normally my contribution tends to silence the class for an awkward moment, but I don't claim to be smart like your over-9000 some shit like that class. I'm just a high school kid who gets average grades. On the odd chance of a debate coming up, more often than not I am prepared with all my arguements (well, its all actually heat of the moment), but sometimes I'll say something that I think is brilliant, get a counter-question and I have no answer. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On January 12 2012 09:33 Torte de Lini wrote: You see, typing online you can refine a post or writing is so much easier. Time is unlimited (practically) in an ongoing conversation so I can't continually stop short. Yeah, I'm no Foucault (or that other guy who completely separated word from definition, I forget his name). Dude, breathe. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. GOD. DAMN. FUCKING. BREAAAAAAAATH!!!! In other words: punctuation shall make everything better.  Also, see if there are ways for you to study what the teacher wants you to learn before the actual lesson. For example, my teachers put their power points they use in their lesson plans on a site where we can log in, download them, and open them. Using them however we please. I often will take advantage of this and get hw done/ become the one kid that actually knows where the teacher is going with this and help the class move along. I'm generally considered an "over achiever" because I do this (As in, my fellow students actually gave me the nick name "over achiever"). It allows me to show that I am smart as I will also put my own viewpoint on things I disagree with, but knowing where the teacher is going with this, I will be able to keep the class moving as well and connect it to the conversation. It even allows me to have enough extra time to prepare for conversations before-hand and find any flaws in what I would've said. I actually type stuff up on TL in pms to myself and will continually delete and retype it up. Sometimes when I don't have that time to type stuff up on TL I will literally imagine myself typing it out in my head. Then I change stuff around and boom. I got myself something to say. edit: WTF 4 pages?!?!?!? It was 2 when I started this... FML. (and torti's too lol) edit2: lol I'm next to get quoted. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:02 Hypertension wrote: If the teacher asked you to stop talking, I wouldn't guarentee that she will treat you fairly when it's time to get a grade. So if you can switch to a new class or teacher I would consider it. As far as talking, maybe you go on for too long rather than using too many big words. Try just saying 10-20 words to capture your disagreement, then letting other people talk, then chiming in again after 5-10 other people have talked, again with only a 10-20 word point. The sad fact is that most people don't listen to what other people are saying, they are just waiting for thier turn to talk. If you take this away from them, they will resent you. Listening > talking in 90% of situations. If you don't say much and what you say is right, people will think you are intelligent. Think about politicians, they all use sound bites to convice other people how great/right they are. She didn't ask me to stop talking. She said I could stop talking or that I didn't have to talk to get the participation points that I'd still get my 10% participation if I was present anyways. I offered an alternative of writing small essays for her on questions discussed in class (how would you approach feelings was today's question) and she was quick to cut that suggestion off and just say that I didn't have to talk. I want to contribute and say my thoughts, I never get to (hence these long blogs haha), but I don't want to be an asshole smarty shithead. Too fucking true. I'm surprised you guys all read this blog (or my previous ones), goddamn! TL grows the best minority populations! | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:01 Torte de Lini wrote: Emotional intelligence is a very interesting concept :B No one's talked about emotion and power yet, they still think there's a contrast and thus a gender division and type-casting. I disagree, but I have a theory in my own head and it's sort of intricate :B! I'll see if I can record the conversation for next class on my phone, should be interesting for everyone and maybe it'll be more clear that I'm in the wrong (though I think we can deduce this). We'll see, next class is Friday. Dunno if I record well on my phone). No, I don't partake in drugs of alcoholic drinks. Not my fancy except for very sweet wine. Except you get no feedback on your papers. It's just shitted on and then a grade pops up. That's not necessarily true if you have a good reportire with your professors. I got along well with several of mine when I was in University and built good relationships with them outside of class. We've had pretty good discussions. Not from the prof your talking about though. Doesn't sound like they want anything to do with you. Not just you either. Grades say a lot too and you can always schedule an appointment during their office hours if you want to go over something for more feedback. This doesn't mean you will get the answers you want though. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:06 RedJustice wrote: A river of words washes away the meaning. Look at your description of the problem: fear of being misunderstood, intimidating, or boring. Your current solution is to talk yourself blue in the face with jargon, explanatory clauses, and side notes. As far as practical advice goes, you need to practice; especially if you have a lisp and talk quickly. Talk to yourself in the mirror, and make an effort to speak clearly. Pick anything-- a paper your just read or a topic you're interested in, and try to explain it to an imaginary person in a minute or less. You will feel dumb talking to a mirror, but it makes you more conscious of how you are speaking. Over time you will develop better habits. I've already done this for years. My father made me do this for 6 years. I had to read a motivational paper that depicted me as XYZ great descriptions and I had to read it passionately with enthusiasm. Oy. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:07 Sinensis wrote: I'll put mine side by side with yours: I disagree and feel that power and emotionality are associated with one another. Historically there have been people who use emotions to manipulate an audience for power. Bob Ross and Fred Rogers for example use soft speech and body language to communicate gentle emotions to their audiences. The joy this demeanor brings to their fans has earned both men celebrity status worldwide even after their deaths. I disagree and feel that power and emotionality are associated with one another through the approach of legitimate power such as charismatic leaders (Sarah Palin, Nixon, etc.) and that despite them being terrible people, they gained a legitimate form of power (of influence or other forms) by not only recognizing emotions that a collective society feels on general issues, but can also use those emotions to sway people in their favor. Mine is a little happier and doesn't hurt anyone's feelings in case they're a Palin fan (they exist). Also no one gets lost in confusing punctuation like many of these ((())())() and long sentences. There's no punctuation when you talk and I feel mine hits the vocab. words of the curriculum than yours (legitimate power, charismatic leader). You wouldn't know which words those are, but I see your point. I feel like when I talk, it's a pinball machine to say all the legitimate vocab words of my curriculum too. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:09 kirdie wrote: Do some courses in logic, this should help you stay on the point and formulate meaningful sentence transitions. Which classes would that be? I want to take a minor in informative writing :B | ||
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EternaLLegacy
United States410 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
People who don't want to understand won't. Until an anvil of fucking awesome cracks into their cookie cutter points of view, of course. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:14 Thaniri wrote: I'm in high school, but perhaps I could relate. When participating in class discussions, normally my contribution tends to silence the class for an awkward moment, but I don't claim to be smart like your over-9000 some shit like that class. I'm just a high school kid who gets average grades. On the odd chance of a debate coming up, more often than not I am prepared with all my arguements (well, its all actually heat of the moment), but sometimes I'll say something that I think is brilliant, get a counter-question and I have no answer. I get average grades too :B Had to redo a few grades as well (fuck you French schools!). I wish I got to debate in high-school ): I really feel this is a build-up of never being able to be expressive during my other years of school too sometimes. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:07 Torte de Lini wrote: Yeah, I am excessive. I said that I think. It's half-ass school with storytime about people's lives. It's sociology, social sciences. I wish my class was an internet forum debate minus google and wikipedia. That'd be heavenly to be frank! And yes, I am that kid. I read the material. You're suppose to BEFORE the class, not after. Just seems counterproductive too though D: why are you even taking sociology? why not drop and become a writer, he says romantically | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
The discussion of intelligence, the way we express it, how much of it do we really have, is a pretty touchy subject (retfan)- but I assume that people in this thread all understand that and that we're all making a conscious effort not to make anyone upset because of a misunderstanding. All good intentions here. Either way, you're doing a great job at articulating yourself so I get that this is an honest problem. What immediately came to mind after I finished reading your OP was "Why doesn't he simply express himself in a way so that everyone can understand?" What if the question isn't "Am I the wrong kind of smart?" and the real question is why aren't you smart enough to know that you need to express yourself differently to have better feedback from your audience. I gave it some more thought and from what I'm reading in this thread it seems like this is just the way you want to talk in a discussion that requires full exercise of intelligence. From what I can see in you example, and from the type of school you're going to- it's just not going to fly man. Most people aren't going to take-in what you're saying very well, personally if I was sitting in the same classroom I would be shaking my head and thinking "Did he really need to waste my time regurgitating that long ass string of words?", the person next to me could be saying "Who does this guy think he is?", misunderstanding you when this is just how you want to express yourself. Smart people are a minority, and they are praised for their intelligence by the majority. So if only a handful of your colleagues fully understands and appreciates your way of expressing your thoughts than this puts you into the minority, and this is a bad minority. I mean I see at least 1 person that does what you do to varying degrees each semester. Some do it and get away with it, some don't and a genuinely smart person speaks up to further their point significantly in half the time. Obviously you can see now that I don't like people who add too much vocabulary into their speech, but at the same time I'm making a conscious effort to understand that this is just how some people, like you Torti, just want to express themselves. In the end all I can say is, you're never going to be widely accepted with this way of talking, no matter what the setting is, unless of course you've somehow landed a sweet seat for lunch with a bunch of scholars with published work. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
I've been very fortunate to go to great schools. Well, considering you went to a French school (Montreal yahoooo!) and you didn't have as many opportunities. Give yourself more opportunities. That's the reason I like to think that I'm a pretty darn good public speaker. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:16 3FFA wrote: Dude, breathe. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. GOD. DAMN. FUCKING. BREAAAAAAAATH!!!! In other words: punctuation shall make everything better. Also, see if there are ways for you to study what the teacher wants you to learn before the actual lesson. For example, my teachers put their power points they use in their lesson plans on a site where we can log in, download them, and open them. Using them however we please. I often will take advantage of this and get hw done/ become the one kid that actually knows where the teacher is going with this and help the class move along. I'm generally considered an "over achiever" because I do this (As in, my fellow students actually gave me the nick name "over achiever"). It allows me to show that I am smart as I will also put my own viewpoint on things I disagree with, but knowing where the teacher is going with this, I will be able to keep the class moving as well and connect it to the conversation. It even allows me to have enough extra time to prepare for conversations before-hand and find any flaws in what I would've said. I actually type stuff up on TL in pms to myself and will continually delete and retype it up. Sometimes when I don't have that time to type stuff up on TL I will literally imagine myself typing it out in my head. Then I change stuff around and boom. I got myself something to say. edit: WTF 4 pages?!?!?!? It was 2 when I started this... FML. (and torti's too lol) Yeah, I used to love commas. Now, I tend to avoid them I believe (or overuse them to skip on periods). I really think I should go in and be completely mellow. I went in this class with Michael Jackson because I wanted to be intergrative with the class rather than cynical. It all devolved the same way in the end ): No powerpoints. Just the book and read it. Nobody read this week's article so we're reading it again. I already read it however, so... I'm bored and lost ): I already do that in my classes, teacher hates it as far as I know. They hate it when you're ahead of them and bursting their train~ You'd think they like you being prepared and ready to learn or contribute QQ omg I know @_@ TL is amazing with replies, we should all take a class together. University of TL! | ||
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natebreen
United States184 Posts
Being truly intelligent is knowing that knowing the right answer doesn't always translate to the desired result, especially when working within a framework of established order and respect. There are probably some strippers that are smarter than the President. I'd rather be President than be a stripper who's correct on every issue. | ||
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:20 Torte de Lini wrote: Which classes would that be? I want to take a minor in informative writing :B Does your school offer "Introduction to Logic" in the Philosophy department? Some English classes teach these sorts of things, too. As far as communication and writing, you should always aim for concision. "Word Salad" can get you by but you won't actually acquire any skill at writing. You've probably read Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" somewhere along the line, but in case you haven't, here it is: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm Orwell shares several sentence forms and grammatical quirks that should be avoided. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:27 Tuneful wrote: Does your school offer "Introduction to Logic" in the Philosophy department? Some English classes teach these sorts of things, too. As far as communication and writing, you should always aim for concision. "Word Salad" can get you by but you won't actually acquire any skill at writing. You've probably read Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" somewhere along the line, but in case you haven't, here it is: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm Orwell shares several sentence forms and grammatical quirks that should be avoided. Every university in Canada had it as a compulsory while I was there. ._. You had to take it in your first year. Quebec has a different system when it comes to education. | ||
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) and you should be victorious. I believe you could be accidentally making it into new topic posts instead of new replies.
