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There’s been a lot of talk these past few weeks about a need for more sources of content that aren’t tied to major sponsors or organizations. The problem as many see it is that a large portion of the talent in our community is being snapped up by said sponsors and organization to provide them with their video/writing/personality services. This is all well and good; organizations like IGN and MLG need talented people to help them make their events great, but what it has resulted in is a dearth of people who are able to provide content from an objective perspective.
Of course we’re not actually without people capable of providing this content. We have the good folks at ESFI World busting their asses at every event to provide coverage and straight-up eSports news. We also have sources for more colorful pieces of content, such as WellPlayed (naturally). TeamLiquid is undoubtedly the premiere source of StarCraft writing, though their affiliation with their team makes it harder for them to be as objective as other sources.
The problem isn’t a lack of sources or willing participants, although admittedly the number of sources is lower than it should be. The problem is that without the connections or “star power” that come from being tied to a big organization or sponsor it’s very hard for a website to stand out and grow. I don’t think we lack the ability to create a visually pleasing site that puts out good consistent content, what we lack is people who actively and aggressively want more of it.
Setting aside the financial aspect of starting and growing a website, what’s necessary is exposure and support. Any project just starting off is going to have a hard time getting off the ground without some aggressive help from all the eSports communities. If this is something we want (which this thread assumes to be the case) then EVERYONE has a role to play. Let’s break it down:
1) The Fans. Our job is not only to visit the website and offer feedback, but also to actively promote content in every possible way. This includes twitter, facebook, reddit, and whatever other social media de jour you can think of. Far too often image memes and one-off jokes are occupying the top ten slots on r/starcraft, and that’s just not going to cut it. I’ve seen articles from a number of different sources be swallowed up and buried almost immediately, and even articles that make it to the front of the subreddit very rarely make it to the top of the page. Reddit is a very powerful tool for disseminating information, which leaves us with a choice. Do we want to continue to laugh about silly rage comics and images that we’ll forget about five seconds later, or do we want to promote quality content, not only spreading the word about that particular piece, but also helping to build an organizations reputation and increasing traffic in the future?
2) The Celebs. We need your help too! This is already happening somewhat; a player or personality will always retweet an interview or article they participated in. This isn’t enough though. Since the majority of you peruse Reddit and other content-driven websites (don’t deny it!), you’re reading the same things we should be reading. If you see something you like, shoot out a quick tweet! Just like us fans that should be spreading the love, your ability to get the word out far surpasses our own. Some are already doing this, which is a huge help, but if we can get even more top members of the community involved with this process, I think it would help these content producing websites gain a stronger footing within the community.
This isn’t going to be easy, and it’s not going to happen overnight. It takes a long time for an independent website to reach a point where its traffic and influence make it self-sufficient. But if we’re serious about growing eSports (which I gather we are), this one way that we can have a direct impact on how the community shapes itself. Now I’m not asking for anyone to promote an article just because it’s an article. If it’s not good, don’t upvote it. I don’t think we’ll have to worry about that though. We’re an enormously talented and driven community, so if we can work together on this, there’s no telling how far we can take it!
  
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Uh huh. So you're posting on TL about making a new website to replace TL.
Sadly, before reading your final paragraph, I wrote out a nice 200 word brief on what TL writers are and why they are unaffiliated with TLAF. Then I realized what exactly you're suggesting and .. might I say you would have better luck on reddit.
Enjoy.
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TL doesn't do journalism, even Community News is crowd-sourced.
If someone has the starting capital to fly around, make contacts and get things going sure it could be successful, but I doubt it's going to be the priority of any investor.
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Most of the writing going on in the SC2 scene is simply marketing, because we aren't big enough to have, or even NEED real journalism to cover. Most sources are just people looking to The traditional areas are already covered by community efforts - things like match results, player statistics/analysis, etc. are done by community members.
I think ESFI is doing something interesting as they're trying to be a coverage portal for a number of ESPORTS in general, much like Slasher's show. As much as the internet hates on Slasher, he occupies a unique position and would be the only person qualified to do any sort of broad-scope objective journalism. (Of course, whether or not he's actually objective is a different story...)
Also, the majority of TL writers aren't affiliated with the writers for TLPro.
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On December 03 2011 13:08 Probe1 wrote:
Uh huh. So you're posting on TL about making a new website to replace TL.
Sadly, before reading your final paragraph, I wrote out a nice 200 word brief on what TL writers are and why they are unaffiliated with TLAF. Then I realized what exactly you're suggesting and .. might I say you would have better luck on reddit.
Enjoy.
Nobody's replacing TL, the point is that we need MORE websites that are as good as TL. I know this isn't the best place to post these ramblings, but frankly there aren't many other places to go.
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On December 03 2011 13:34 Phil Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 13:08 Probe1 wrote:
Uh huh. So you're posting on TL about making a new website to replace TL.
Sadly, before reading your final paragraph, I wrote out a nice 200 word brief on what TL writers are and why they are unaffiliated with TLAF. Then I realized what exactly you're suggesting and .. might I say you would have better luck on reddit.
Enjoy. Nobody's replacing TL, the point is that we need MORE websites that are as good as TL. I know this isn't the best place to post these ramblings, but frankly there aren't many other places to go.
Why do we need more websites that are as good when the information being posted will be redundant for the most part?
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We already have all we need. Esports is small enough for TL and other myriad organizations to cover, cast and provide info on pretty much everything out there. Having a TL-wannabe site is pointless.
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I don't understand the need or motivation behind this blog.
Please check other scenes that are as young or as small as SC2 and see if you can find sites that do a better job than TL. How are the other popular Esports games doing? Another good comparison would be mma websites. A scene much larger and with a lot more money and history than we have. When you compare the level of our news section versus that of any mma website out there you have to be nuts to think we aren't doing a good job respective of such a new scene. You should have seen sherdog.com when that scene was as large as Esports.
Of course we are no ESPN yet, but imo there is nothing to 'fix'. However there is plenty more to develop. We will never stop learning and improving. Two things I feel TL can develop into are faster delivery of news, and the other is writing more research/opinion articles on what is going on the scene. Think of like PPSL drama, player vs caster, players throwing games, MLG player treatment, IPL player treatment, etc. Currently we almost solely focus our articles on leagues even though there is a lot more going on in the scene. The audience deserves quality articles about things like these, but it's going to take some time to develop into something like that. The sheer amount of capability, manpower and professionalism that is needed for opinionated research articles like that is really something to treat carefully and with respect.
If you knew how much quality manpower it takes to set something news it is likely that you would understand why it is not a good idea for investors. There are many things in Esports that require a much lower investment and deliver a much higher reward. The reason why TL can do it is because we have so many volunteers, something we have been building for 10 years.
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On December 03 2011 19:28 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand the need or motivation behind this blog.
Please check other scenes that are as young or as small as SC2 and see if you can find sites that do a better job than TL. How are the other popular Esports games doing? Another good comparison would be mma websites. A scene much larger and with a lot more money and history than we have. When you compare the level of our news section versus that of any mma website out there you have to be nuts to think we aren't doing a good job respective of such a new scene. You should have seen sherdog.com when that scene was as large as Esports.
Of course we are no ESPN yet, but imo there is nothing to 'fix'. However there is plenty more to develop. We will never stop learning and improving. Two things I feel TL can develop into are faster delivery of news, and the other is writing more research/opinion articles on what is going on the scene. Think of like PPSL drama, player vs caster, players throwing games, MLG player treatment, IPL player treatment, etc. Currently we almost solely focus our articles on leagues even though there is a lot more going on in the scene. The audience deserves quality articles about things like these, but it's going to take some time to develop into something like that. The sheer amount of capability, manpower and professionalism that is needed for opinionated research articles like that is really something to treat carefully and with respect.
If you knew how much quality manpower it takes to create well written news articles it is likely that you would understand why it is not a good idea for investors. There are many things in Esports that require a much lower investment and deliver a much higher reward. The reason why TL can do it is because we have so many volunteers, something we have been building for 10 years.
couldn't have said it btr myself
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On December 03 2011 19:28 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand the need or motivation behind this blog.
Please check other scenes that are as young or as small as SC2 and see if you can find sites that do a better job than TL. How are the other popular Esports games doing? Another good comparison would be mma websites. A scene much larger and with a lot more money and history than we have. When you compare the level of our news section versus that of any mma website out there you have to be nuts to think we aren't doing a good job respective of such a new scene. You should have seen sherdog.com when that scene was as large as Esports.
A piece about an event a week of more after its conclusion may be great but hardly qualifies as "news".
The coverage I'd like to see would be a professional writer and photographer in every large event reporting directly from the tournament floor, but that would cost in the tens of thousands a month. That's enough to build a top foreign team, before sponsors - it's no surprise no one does it.
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On December 04 2011 03:40 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 19:28 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't understand the need or motivation behind this blog.
Please check other scenes that are as young or as small as SC2 and see if you can find sites that do a better job than TL. How are the other popular Esports games doing? Another good comparison would be mma websites. A scene much larger and with a lot more money and history than we have. When you compare the level of our news section versus that of any mma website out there you have to be nuts to think we aren't doing a good job respective of such a new scene. You should have seen sherdog.com when that scene was as large as Esports.
A piece about an event a week of more after its conclusion may be great but hardly qualifies as "news". The coverage I'd like to see would be a professional writer and photographer in every large event reporting directly from the tournament floor, but that would cost in the tens of thousands a month. That's enough to build a top foreign team, before sponsors - it's no surprise no one does it.
That's because the "news" is being crowdsourced through social media and the forums. Does a professional writer really need to publish an article the day after an event is over when the majority of the content will be results that can are already posted in the forums, reddit, twitter, etc.? Or that the VODs will be available within days, if not hours of the event's completion? It doesn't make much sense to have traditional journalism in this context.
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Team Liquid is a very good site and media hub. Is it biased? Sure, but most media outlets are and the level is noticable yet mostly tolerable.
But we cannot fund quality media without sponsors, and with sponsors come obligations to those sponsors. It is similar in case to mainstream media.
Would it be nice for the major media website for the foreign SC scene to be team-neutral? Probably, but TL is a good "product" as is.
I think I understand what you are trying to say and what you want to improve, but we do need to be careful not to change what is already good with Esports media.
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you know, gamers actually watch VODs and replays a lot more...and events have done a really great job of posting VODs as soon as possible, so people generally know the news before any major 'news' comes out. word of mouth.
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To the OPs point, I think there is a complete dearth in actual media coverage. I love TL to death, and it functions well for what it is, but it's not credentialed journalism. Rarely do articles on here veer out of what can be culled from VODs and opinions, giving the whole site the feel of the editorial pages. The other issue is that for TL.net, apart from it being the site for a competitive team within the sport its covering, anyone can be a journalist. Sure, certain news is featured, or spotlighted, but with the forum mechanism that the site plays to (which is good) it undermines the credibility of stand alone content.
To Nazgul: I don't think Phil is writing to critique what Team Liquid is or isn't doing. I don't expect TL to be my hub for high quality news and journalism for SC2. I expect it to be a community driven enterprise that flourishes on the endeavors of its users. When it comes to journalism, TL is hit or miss. If you check out what ESFI did with the video interviews on its site, I find much more journalistic merit than when Hot Bid sat down with all the players. Did I enjoy the Hot Bid interviews? Yup. Did they succeed in letting me get to know players? Yup, in a fun, off-topic kind of way. Did they ask many hard hitting questions? Nope. Do I feel I better understood the life of a pro-gramer? Nope. Were they newsy? Nope.
Journalism can function as lots of things, and I think one thing the conversation is too focused on is journalism as a delivery mechanism for the NEWS of events: wins losses etc. That's heavily crowdsourced already, and doesn't need much more coverage.
The other aspect that is brought up whenever this is discussed is the desire to get the "Hard-hitting" questions, to which Artosis recently responded on SotG by saying no team or league will ever talk to you if you piss them off. This circles back to the OP's point: we need fans and content consumers to advocate for this type of journalism such that it can flourish and have the capability to do just this. The community could use vetted watch dogs as it grows and matures, as it will benefit everyone involved from fans to players to leagues to teams.
Beyond this, though, nobody is exploring what other content journalistic endeavors can contribute to the scene that aren't there. In my estimation, and for what I'm currently working on crafting, there is little to no long-form (read magazine-style) content being delivered. I'm working on an article that explores how Wingcraft, Chicago Barcraft of sorts, came about. Who were those personalities? What success have they had? What keeps them going? These are the stories that can be told without the commitment of thousands of dollars in travel expenses and equipment costs, AND will be appreciated by the community. As spectators of Starcraft II, we obviously want the tournament news. As players of the game, we want so much more. Sites like ESFI are starting it, and hopefully others (me included) who are passionate journalists/editors by day, can help make it happen.
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Here's one problem that nobody wants to talk about:
Independent journalism would naturally develop, as the scene grows bigger and more money comes in to the scene, if it weren't for the fact that there're people in the scene who style themselves as king-makers. There are few individuals in this scene who feel it's in their power to make arbitrary judgement to make-and-break every new group that pops-up, rather than just let the ideas develop and see whether the Community will pick up on it. The phrase "Old Boy's Club" has popped up on popular radar recently, and this is what it's about. When people abuse their power and position like that, it artificially limits our potential, and these few individuals get away with it too.
Nobody knows what the fuck they're doing in eSports yet. StarCraft 2 is barely a year old, so it's actually impossible to know what works or what doesn't. It's like pretending that the metagame of today will be the metagame next year. When concepts don't have a chance to grow and tested, instead relies on personal opinions and connections, innovation never happens.
Ever notice that no BarCraft organizer come from the "old guard"? Why do you think that's the case?
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@Prima: Can you get more specific? I understand the idea of the Old Boy's Club, except when I think of the alleged personalities: Day9, Slasher, JayP, Artosis, InControl etc. etc. etc., I can't come up with an incident in which they were killing anything. And who makes them "King-makers"? We do, as listeners and consumers. But there's nothing stopping anyone from trying it out themselves--surely no establishment that will come down hard. We just haven't seen it. What we have seen is lots of fizzled attempts. These things take time--Day9's daily took off not because of his name, but because he put tireless work into something that guaranteed nothing. Take people like Husky and HDStarcraft, who have made it as caster out of a passion for the game.
I'm not trying to discredit your argument that these individuals carry a tremendous amount of pull. I just don't see them abusing it. To their credit, I think, they give lots of props to new initiatives and ideas though they don't owe them anything. ESFI's Jacqueline Geller got interviewed on F#!% Slasher. Where is the harm in that?
I do see your point in something like the recruitment of this talent for organizations that exist, and what might be necessary is someone sticking it out, once their content is golden and valuable, and not taking the plunge into the stability of a full-time, paying position. But real life plays a role, especially in the infancy of this scene. To your point, I just have a hard time buying a consolidation of power by this Old Guard when all of them are constantly passionate about the game and community, and push to make it succeed.
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It's not the personalities that run esports, it's the background guys.
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I’m not a regular poster, but I’ve been thinking about InControl and JP’s discussion about Starcraft journalism, and I wanted to offer some input.
To begin, I love the idea of having well written, professional quality news to read about eSports, Starcraft in general. As I’ve been thinking about this, I’ve been trying figure out what exactly I want. I’m 100 percent against any kind of TMZ style coverage because I learn nothing from it. The things I want to see are the personalities of the players, their responses to their results, what players I should be paying attention to and spot news updates like tournament structures changes or players transferring to new teams.
A lot of people talk about the dream of seeing Starcraft on ESPN, but honestly, I think I’m more interested in seeing Starcraft on ESPN.com. If you spend much time on ESPN, this is the kind of content you regularly get. Lately ESPN has devoted a lot of coverage to Tim Tebow, some of it is ridiculous, but if you spent a few hours looking at the site, you would know a lot about Tim Tebow. I’d love to see the Starcraft community have this kind of coverage about a formerly unknown player making a strong run in a major tournament.
To accomplish this, a group would need a fairly large pool of talented writers. What makes ESPN.com work so well is its staff has specific roles like analyst, columnist and reporter. This does allows for a steady stream of content to keep people interested in the site and prevents burnout. Geoff and JP talked about how a scathing story may get a person blacklisted from interviewing a player or team. A large team will go a long way in preventing this. There aren’t many athletes who refuse to talk to ESPN. They may get upset with a particular reporter, but a different reporter can just talk to that player for a while. Of course a team may decide to blacklist a site, but like any other reporter who’s upset a source, the site could just cover other things for a while.
With staff divided into specific roles, the reporters could do less opinionated work and keep their relationships with sources fairly positive while columnists could offer the commentary that may be more upsetting.
As previously mentioned, one of the biggest challenges is getting enough recognition that sources line up for you. When I was in school, I had the hardest time getting anyone to talk to me for my newswriting assignments. The day I started working for a paper and I could put that paper’s name after my name, people were a lot more willing to talk.
The solution to this is the Starcraft community, if it really wants something like this. This community has proven many times it can accomplish anything it wants. If they community gets behind an effort like this, sources will eventually come around. This is what will make or break the entire thing.
I’ve never been deeply rooted in the Starcraft community, so I don’t know what kind of talent pool there is to staff something like this, but I’m interested in giving something like this a shot.
About me
I've been working in newspapers for a little over five years. I work for the US's largest newspaper publisher and provide content for daily and weekly newspapers and their website. I've covered local government and education in the Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky area.
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EPT
