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Not sure if you will read up till that post but let's pretend.
Awesome write up, very frantic, I like that. To be honest in return, you looked tensed during the event, and especially on the couch, you know, when you kept touching that jacket of yours. I was being a bit uncomfortable for you, yeah I'm like that. Now you didn't sound uncomfortable, be it off or on camera, so at least that was all good.
You say that's because a lack of intimate knowledge of SC2, which is in my opinion a valid point. However I think this also has to do with - and in advance my apologies - your weight. I'm sorry that's a bit plain but let's face it, you didn't seem physically comfortable. Again please do not take offence of that, that's just my gut opinion (go to some sports without the E!).
I really enjoy your productions in general, don't worry too much imo, people love you.
That being said, cheers
Edit : also, I couldn't help but read this report with your voice in my brain until I had to stop because it was way too slow...
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Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please
I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing
So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports!
So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not?
Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR
If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
edit: bold headerz is nize.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2011 02:16 Kutz wrote:
Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please
I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing
So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports!
So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not?
Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR
If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
edit: bold headerz is nize.
Well to be quite fair, no one really forces you to watch the whole thing. I think the thought behind it is that it's always supposed to be on. Kind of like a 24/7 TV channel or so. There's always something to watch, but no one expects you to watch it every second every hour every day. I don't really understand the complaint.
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@TotalBiscuit
Open and honest piece, I appreciate. Writeup could use a revision to clear up typos, grammatical errors as well as presenting the ideas in a more clean and clear fashion, giving it a better chance getting the feedback across to people working at Dreamhack.
@Dreamhack
-Casting workload is terrible
-Watching the games is an insane marathon. A good schedule (did I miss one such?) in the hands of Liquipedians would do wonders, akin to the MLG coverage
-Camera crew need some improvement
-Given the massive focus on Finals, the previous stages of the weekend, although enjoyable, could be improved a lot in terms of hosting and presentation
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Great read; really appreciate your work with that, at the event and in general!
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Here's my thoughts.
So, we arrived on saturday to Dreamhack. It is such a huge place and there were very few (and hard to interpret) maps around the place. As we later realized, day9/mrbitter and tasteosis casted backstage in some locker room somewhere i guess due to other games finals, there was no easily accessed information on this if any. And the steelseries stage could've been so much better located and set up in a larger area. We spent most of our time trying to figure out where we were going to go. And then trying to catch a glimpse of the game from behind the crowd. TLO and Sheth we actually got to see casting from the front row (eg. sitting on the floor), and that was really cool, they did a good job, but all in all I was dissappointed.
Then we went to the Kinnarps Arena where the semifinals and finals were played. I can safely say it was one of the most amazing experiences i've had this year, it was like going to a rock concert. I was like ecstatic the whole time and it was so cool to actually see the players and casters irl. Not to mention the actual games and the awesome support of the crowd.
Oh, and TB you did a great job, and you've improved much. Nice to hear that you're actually noticing all your fans and people who love what you do, rather than the minority of haters and trolls!
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It was nice to see how both you and apollo improved quite a bit recently. I always thought you were pretty good play by play caster, but apollo got his game knowledge up a lot + both of you stopped using some generic phrases so it was pleasant experience to watch you guys cast.
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Great write up, 5/5, but what makes this a great one is that you aren't afraid to man up and call yourself on your shortcomings.
Hope you get your no fly list shit worked out so you can finally come do MLG. Since your lil lady lives in NC, it would be awesome if you could make it to Raleigh next season/year.
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Totalbiscuit,
I really like your youtube-channel and follow it with great interest, but.. your lack of knowledge of sc2 used to annoy me just too much when i watched u commentate and i didnt wanna watch it (gotta say i am a very picky and analytical person). Wich was ashame, because i like your personality, humour, enthusiasm, point of views etc. That was like 6 months ago.
Now after this Dreamhack. I dont mind your lack of in-dept-knowledge much, You seem at a good enough level of understanding for casting now. U improved a lot and you are just a very good host and entertainer, and that makes up for it. I feel its a joy to hear u cast now. I still love day9 the most, but i probably have more respect for you.
I really think many people kinda feel this way.
Keep doing what u do, because so many people are loving it. Wich is a beautifull thing.
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Writing this is very pro of you TB, your feedback is invaluable for DH, the fans, and everybody that cares a bit about SC2.
I agree 100% with all you have written.
I'd like to add that from an online spectator's point of view, DH always has the best production even though IPL was great and IEM is constantly improving (and GSL being very poor in that regard).
And D.Apollo is imo the greatest caster on the scene : he has an immense knowledge of the game, and knows how to pass it without showing off. He knows how to criticize a play without sounding overly negative and thus keeping excitement high. He adapts to the pace of the game very well, and spends time explaining the players' thoughts processes when possible, which is great imo.
Your casting team is constantly improving, and you complement each other very well, so it's always a treat to have you both casting an event. I hope you keep casting together!
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On December 01 2011 06:19 Euronyme wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 01 2011 02:16 Kutz wrote:
Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please
I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing
So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports!
So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not?
Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR
If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
edit: bold headerz is nize. Well to be quite fair, no one really forces you to watch the whole thing. I think the thought behind it is that it's always supposed to be on. Kind of like a 24/7 TV channel or so. There's always something to watch, but no one expects you to watch it every second every hour every day. I don't really understand the complaint.
I read you, and yes, watching the entire tournament is indeed a choice, but an impossible one if you're at the venue itself, given that three games are played simultaneously. So you missed that point, too much content in too short a time makes it *impossible* to experience it all, despite the short timespan during which the tournament takes place. And this is just one sport. I compared it to the Olympics considering that shit too is on all the time with plenty of competitions run simultaneously, but that event consists of *different* sports. If I want to follow say the 1000 m for men, then I could do so without that much problem. If I want to follow three or four (or heck, all of them, because I am that kinda guy) then yes, it would be difficult. It should not be the case for a StarCraft 2 tournament.
Secondly, and maybe this point did not come through as clearly considering I pretty much lost my original train of though by the end of that comment, if you were at the live venue during the finals, that shit went on from 17:30 till way past midnight. I believe it was around 01:xx but I'm not sure. I guess your reply would be to get the hell out of that chair during the Street Fighter and Quake finals, right? Well if that's the solution, then clearly those two finals should not have been shown in that venue at all, and even if you remove those, it's still way longer than any football or hockey match in one sitting.
Again, I am comparing this to "real" sports, and they don't have that same issue. This is still *one* sport, one tournament, and it's way too crammed at the moment.
edit: swinglified grammars
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Nice blog! Respect you guys more.
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On November 30 2011 03:37 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Great post thanks a lot for your casting and for posting this. I do however think you are wrong in your coach conclusion.
Some people are play-by-play orientated commentators and TB is the best one of these by far. It only adds to your credibility that you realize this. This is also why the ball should have been dropped from tastosis to you and not day[9]. You should have been the one to go "holy shit I hope I didn't interrupt the cast with my pounding heart I definitively felt Hero had the lead at several points..." And THEN the others can drop their analysis and after that you can wrap and give it back to casters.
Day[9] definitively takes to much room and comes off as pretty full of himself (This is my personal opinion and it's unrelated to the point above, still a day[9] fan but imo he needs to chill a little
In Day[9]'s defense I don't think it's actually a full of himself thing at all. I just think he is genuinely that excited by Starcraft, and seriously, he's a professional grade commentator capable of carrying off a tournament cast by himself.
HOWEVER.
TB and Apollo compliment each other perfectly and I genuinely look forward to watching your casts, TB. Never stop. You're awesome <3
The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community.
Jamie Redknapp is a retired professional footballer. His vocabulary is limited to expressions of how TOP a player is. Gary Neville, arguably not as pivotal a player for his club, is a vastly better pundit.
Sports commentators mostly speak in nonsensical cliches. TB is arguably better than most professional casters for this reason - he doesn't speak in cliches at all.
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I'll be quite honest TB, I was once skeptical of your commentary. However, I was simply blown away by your performance at Dreamhack. It was extraordinary. And myself, a huge Tastosis fan boy, often found myself preferring your stream to theirs. I also want to commend your partnership with dApollo. You guys complement each other extremely well. Between Dreamhack and this insightful blog entry (props), you have won yourself a fan. Keep up your great work, and know that it is appreciated. Come to the US (east coast please :D)!
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I appreciate honesty in every form, and it warms my heart a little that you are so blatantly truthful about the state of affairs. There is good, there is bad, there is praise and there is disappointment, but true knowledge lies in being able to put all those facets together into one. Do I believe that you have amazing game knowledge on par with the others on the couch? No, I really don't. But am I completely enthralled and entertained by your sexy voice, humour, and casting chops. Yes, indeed. Like you said, there's more to a caster than knowing what to do. There is presence, and you are one of the most present personalities out there ^^
Good job, please, carry on!
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Ser Biscuit, you did an awesome job. Just as always!
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EPT
