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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
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Triscuit
United States722 Posts
On November 19 2011 07:41 SpoR wrote: But what about Microsoft? Once they know that google doesn't want you then they are at less risk of offering you higher pay right? I had an offer already from Microsoft like 5 days before I even went to Google. I don't think competition has as much of an effect on salaries as you might think. | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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fanta[Rn]
Japan2465 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On November 18 2011 16:05 SpoR wrote: Me thinks they will be in a better bargaining position for you if don't have two choices on where to work. And that may also be another reason why google passed on you. They knew microsoft might fight for you so they would have to pay you more when they could pay someone else less who has no other offers. Different companies may have different attitudes on this, but my personal experience is that a competing offer is only really relevant when it comes to how much time they allow themselves to come to a decision. Most selective companies won't worry too much about competing offers, they'll just make you an offer they think is appropriate and negotiate from there if they think you're the person they want to hire. I've often been in situations where I've interviewed a great candidate who gets snapped up by someone else, or where a candidate tries to spark a bidding war in which my employer might decline to participate, but I can't ever remember a case where simple fear of a possible bidding war would cause us to pass on someone we might otherwise want to hire. Also, bidding wars do happen for exceptional candidates, but as that implies, they're exceptional. They're not the norm. Generally, large companies do a lot of research to see how much people in a given category are getting paid, and stray from that only when the hire has unusual strategic importance. Edit: I had an offer already from Microsoft like 5 days before I even went to Google. I don't think competition has as much of an effect on salaries as you might think. Exactly right. It may have some impact, but in most cases it's not that large. If you get offered X and another company offers you X+10%, you may be able to get the first company to match the other offer. That's usually a conversation that happens only after both companies have made you an actual offer, however. I was once in a situation where I declined an offer due to receiving a better one from my then current employer to change jobs and remain with them, and the HR representative for the company with which I'd interviewed said "Wait wait, we're willing to negotiate if you want!" In that instance, though, as it so often is, it wasn't about the money right then, so I wound up moving into a new position with my then current employer. | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
On November 19 2011 08:30 Triscuit wrote: I had an offer already from Microsoft like 5 days before I even went to Google. I don't think competition has as much of an effect on salaries as you might think. I know you did. And I'm just thinking that if for example google were to make you an offer of slightly more than Microsoft, then MS might give you another counter offer etc. But I dunno, you might be right. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On November 19 2011 09:18 Lysenko wrote: Hey, I'm sorry you didn't get an offer from Google, but it's nice that they were willing to call you to let you know. Many places won't do that for various reasons that I tend to think are ill-considered. Different companies may have different attitudes on this, but my personal experience is that a competing offer is only really relevant when it comes to how much time they allow themselves to come to a decision. Most selective companies won't worry too much about competing offers, they'll just make you an offer they think is appropriate and negotiate from there if they think you're the person they want to hire. I've often been in situations where I've interviewed a great candidate who gets snapped up by someone else, or where a candidate tries to spark a bidding war in which my employer might decline to participate, but I can't ever remember a case where simple fear of a possible bidding war would cause us to pass on someone we might otherwise want to hire. Also, bidding wars do happen for exceptional candidates, but as that implies, they're exceptional. They're not the norm. Generally, large companies do a lot of research to see how much people in a given category are getting paid, and stray from that only when the hire has unusual strategic importance. Edit: Exactly right. It may have some impact, but in most cases it's not that large. If you get offered X and another company offers you X+10%, you may be able to get the first company to match the other offer. That's usually a conversation that happens only after both companies have made you an actual offer, however. I was once in a situation where I declined an offer due to receiving a better one from my then current employer to change jobs and remain with them, and the HR representative for the company with which I'd interviewed said "Wait wait, we're willing to negotiate if you want!" In that instance, though, as it so often is, it wasn't about the money right then, so I wound up moving into a new position with my then current employer. Adding to what you said: As a new grad, you really don't have much leveraging power. Your starting salary and compensations are fixed. Unless you are absolutely brilliant, most large companies (Google, MSFT, Amazon, etc.) will not make you counter offers. What most companies will do, is promise to be more accommodating with your special requests (e.g. starting date, groups, etc.) and a better career track ("putting you under radar" is the phrase they'd like to use, which is pretty much bullshit imo anyway). Of all people, I've only heard of one case where Amazon raised the starting salary by $15,000 because the candidate was very impressive. Completely different stories for small companies though. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On November 18 2011 08:30 Triscuit wrote: Just got a call earlier. Google decided not to extend me an offer. That's okay though, when I was there I became very concerned that the work culture was not what I was looking for in a company. I think maybe Google wasn't a very good fit for me on a personal level, just as maybe the San Francisco Bay area might not have been a good fit for me on a personal level either. I think overall Microsoft is a better fit for me, but I wanted to prove to myself that I have what it takes to be offered a job at Google. I'm not going to take the rejection very hard, I'm mostly just excited for what my future holds. Thanks for reading, everybody. I am going to be writing a blog pretty soon (maybe over Thanksgiving) about what it's like to be a CS major at a university that's considered to be pretty tough (University of Texas at Austin). It's going to be long, maybe twice the length or more of my previous blogs. Hopefully that doesn't turn too many people away. <3 Haha, welcome to my boat (got MSFT, rejected by Google)! Too bad you didn't get Google, I was hoping that, despite what happened during the interview, they'd make you an offer anyway (people often overestimate how badly interviews went). Anyway, seems like you will be taking MSFT, so good luck with that! Fit is indeed very important. For me, I honestly didn't think Google was a very good fit, and I honestly would not have taken it even if I did pass the interviews. Enjoy Seattle and the rain~~ | ||
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
On November 19 2011 10:03 Cambium wrote: Haha, welcome to my boat (got MSFT, rejected by Google)! Too bad you didn't get Google, I was hoping that, despite what happened during the interview, they'd make you an offer anyway (people often overestimate how badly interviews went). Anyway, seems like you will be taking MSFT, so good luck with that! Fit is indeed very important. For me, I honestly didn't think Google was a very good fit, and I honestly would not have taken it even if I did pass the interviews. Enjoy Seattle and the rain~~ Are you going to MSFT, Cambium? | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
That was 2 years ago. I didn't take it. | ||
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Snipinpanda
United States1227 Posts
Ah, ok. You sounded like you were talking in present tense  What did you end up doing? | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9101 Posts
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magusmind
50 Posts
But! It sounds like you gave it your best, and you should be proud of that. | ||
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ImDrizzt
Norway427 Posts
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Triscuit
United States722 Posts
On November 19 2011 15:32 ImDrizzt wrote: Do you think them people over at microsoft might consider hiring someone like me, with no education or knowledge about what they really do over there? Still got a strong feeling I'd contribute quite a bit and be a sick asset. What kind of skills do you have? It's probably going to be difficult to get past the HR filter, but you're going to have to demonstrate how you're going to be able to contribute very specifically. | ||
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Clank
United States548 Posts
On November 18 2011 08:30 Triscuit wrote: Just got a call earlier. Google decided not to extend me an offer. That's okay though, when I was there I became very concerned that the work culture was not what I was looking for in a company. I think maybe Google wasn't a very good fit for me on a personal level, just as maybe the San Francisco Bay area might not have been a good fit for me on a personal level either. I think overall Microsoft is a better fit for me, but I wanted to prove to myself that I have what it takes to be offered a job at Google. I'm not going to take the rejection very hard, I'm mostly just excited for what my future holds. Thanks for reading, everybody. I am going to be writing a blog pretty soon (maybe over Thanksgiving) about what it's like to be a CS major at a university that's considered to be pretty tough (University of Texas at Austin). It's going to be long, maybe twice the length or more of my previous blogs. Hopefully that doesn't turn too many people away. <3 looking forward to that blog! | ||
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
 5/5 | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
don't hang your head | ||
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ImDrizzt
Norway427 Posts
On November 20 2011 04:29 Triscuit wrote: What kind of skills do you have? It's probably going to be difficult to get past the HR filter, but you're going to have to demonstrate how you're going to be able to contribute very specifically. When I stay close, or around stuff for awhile I calibrate and feel stuff, then I'm sick good at explaining it. At school I ran around and hooked everyone up because I felt which girls wanted which boys, (like why would a girl walk past and always turn her back in the hall to most guys, and to a few turn her breasts towards them?? AHA, eureka!!). I continued doing this when I got older, now some people I've hooked up are married and got children. (I've also got a sick knack for spotting lies and deception). When I played World Of Warcraft, if anyone felt like killing themself or things of that nature they just sent me a mail and I took care of it. (I mean, I made them not kill themselves). When I was a kid and I heard about internet, one of the first essay's wrote was about how every household would have computers and we'd all be connected somehow. (For this my teacher rewarded me with second to lowest grade saying I was stupid as shit. Okay, she didn't actually use those words, but pretty sure that's what she was thinking). I've lived in front of the computer a lot, so if I chat to people, it doesn't take long before I calibrate and figure out awesome stuff, they say "what we say/write" is 7% of communication (55% is body language, mannerism, tone of voice, pitch, circumstances etc make up for the last 38%ish). I feel I can feel atleast 50% with the words alone. The pause between when they write, when they have more typos, when they don't have. What type of questions they respond fast to, which they respond later too, it feels as if I see patterns most miss. A little hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure it's there. I can type 800 + touch per minute, not sure if it's that impressive anymore, I guess it was more impressive when I was a kid. But I have this feeling at microsoft, them people really like guys who type fast, a lot. It's like, if you talk to Incontrol, he'll like you much more if you Benchpress a ton, or if you can eat a lot of stuff really fast. Let's see, is there anything else I can.... Hmm... (Let me lay down on my bed and put on some soothing music, see if I can find anything else I'm good at lol). Ah, ok, got one more, I'm not sure how this work, but I used to take a lot of iQ tests, for a lot of different area's(to my surprise) I was stupid as hell. Like math, spatial awareness, personal intelligence so forth. (Who needs that kinda stuff anyway). But when I took a creativity test I scored well, really well. I scored a bit higher than the top marks you could get. So that must mean I'm creative, but it did come with a warning, said something along the lines with, it will make me very destructive. (Not really sure what that means, but it sounds accurate lol). (Ok, I'm running out of skills again, I'm going to go bug some friends, call my siblings and my dad, ask what they think I'm awesome at, give me a few more minutes Triscuit biscuit.....) Okay, my dad was drinking last night, so had to call 6-7 times before he finally answered. I had to bug him a little bite before getting an answer, but he said my best skill was being nice & helpsome.... Didn't care much for that skill so I called my sister, my sister was tired and wanted to sleep, but I got to talk with her husband and my 1 year old niese. He started with "awh man, this ain't easy, hang on, I'll try think of a skill". Around 5 minutes later he said "owhh, in depth, you go very very deep, explore stuff deeper than most". (I'm not sure why, but images from the movie Inception popped up in my head). After that I called Odbjørn (I like to call him Oddi poddi), he said I was loyal, straight up. Then he said he could list a ton more, but I said "NO, just one per person". And finally I asked my friend Celz on Skype: (Norwegian version) + Show Spoiler + [1:37:58 PM] mariusaglen: ka [1:38:00 PM] mariusaglen: e eg god på [1:38:02 PM] mariusaglen: skils [1:38:03 PM] mariusaglen: å sånn [1:38:03 PM] mariusaglen: fort [1:38:05 PM] mariusaglen: skillz [1:41:11 PM] mariusaglen: CELKZ [1:41:18 PM] mariusaglen: YOU LEAVIN A BROTHER HANGIN [1:41:24 PM] mariusaglen: DOUBLE JU WAHT THE FUCK [2:10:46 PM] Celz: Ka wat [2:11:08 PM] mariusaglen: ka før skillzvil du sei [2:11:08 PM] mariusaglen: eg har [2:11:13 PM] mariusaglen: som gjør at e kan bi ansatt å microsoft [2:11:14 PM] mariusaglen: ?? [2:11:50 PM] mariusaglen: ansatt i [2:14:05 PM] Celz: Hm [2:14:34 PM] Celz: Du e jo ikke direkte data-savvy [2:14:37 PM] Celz: Koffør akkurat microsoft? [2:14:43 PM] Celz: brb [2:14:47 PM] mariusaglen: bARE SVAR [2:15:29 PM] Celz: lol [2:15:44 PM] Celz: Går ikke ann å svar p [2:15:46 PM] Celz: På [2:15:51 PM] Celz: Korsn stilling e det du mein du ska ha? [2:16:01 PM] Celz: Kanke bære sei microsoft når man isje e flenk med data [2:17:22 PM] Celz: Bi no litt som eg spør deg om du kan sei korsn skills eg har som gjør at eg kan bi ansatt i NASA [2:17:35 PM] Celz: Kan jo ingenting om verdensrom og sånt [2:17:40 PM] Celz: Så e jo ganske urelevant korsn skills eg har [2:17:47 PM] Celz: E det ikke? Hehe [2:18:37 PM] mariusaglen: no syns e du va ufordragli [2:18:38 PM] mariusaglen: uuuu [2:18:39 PM] mariusaglen: jaja [2:18:40 PM] Celz: LOL [2:18:44 PM] mariusaglen: sei no bære at du syns eg e før noob te d [2:18:48 PM] mariusaglen: din drittsekk [2:18:49 PM] mariusaglen: HEHEHE [2:18:57 PM] Celz: Nei men e jo det e spør om [2:19:10 PM] Celz: Du ser no vel shøl at du isje e datakyndig nok tell å jobb i microsoft [2:19:19 PM] Celz: Så e regna no med at du meint nåkka anna enn ei rett opp og ned stilling som require at du kan my om data [2:19:56 PM] Celz: Om du har stilling som ingeniør så har du jo personlighet tell å va en bra ingeniør [2:20:02 PM] mariusaglen: ohh nice [2:20:03 PM] Celz: Siden man treng initiativ og alt sånt som du har my av [2:20:04 PM] mariusaglen: den lika eg Translated to English, and shortened down a bit + Show Spoiler + [1:37:58 PM] mariusaglen: wat [1:38:00 PM] mariusaglen: am I good at [1:38:02 PM] mariusaglen: skills [1:38:03 PM] mariusaglen: n stuff [1:38:03 PM] mariusaglen: hurry [1:38:05 PM] mariusaglen: skillz [1:41:11 PM] mariusaglen: CELKZ [1:41:18 PM] mariusaglen: YOU LEAVIN A BROTHER HANGIN [1:41:24 PM] mariusaglen: DOUBLE JU WAHT THE FUCK [2:10:46 PM] Celz: Ka wat [2:11:08 PM] mariusaglen: what skills would you say [2:11:08 PM] mariusaglen: I have [2:11:13 PM] mariusaglen: that would make me get hired at microsoft? [2:11:14 PM] mariusaglen: ?? [2:14:05 PM] Celz: Hm [2:14:34 PM] Celz: You're not exactly computer-savy [2:14:37 PM] Celz: why microsoft? [2:14:43 PM] Celz: brb [2:14:47 PM] mariusaglen: JUST ANSWER [2:15:29 PM] Celz: lol [2:15:44 PM] Celz: Går ikke ann å svar p [2:15:46 PM] Celz: På (This part isn't important, he's just making fun of me) [2:18:37 PM] mariusaglen: now you're just being obnoxious [2:18:38 PM] mariusaglen: uuuu [2:18:39 PM] mariusaglen: oh well [2:18:40 PM] Celz: LOL [2:18:44 PM] mariusaglen: just give it to me straight [2:18:48 PM] mariusaglen: you piece of shit [2:18:49 PM] mariusaglen: HEHEHE [2:18:57 PM] Celz: No but that's what I'm asking [2:19:10 PM] Celz: You know very well you're not smart enough with computers to work at microsoft [2:19:56 PM] Celz: But if you have a position as an engieer, you've got the personality to be awesome at it [2:20:02 PM] mariusaglen: ohh nice [2:20:03 PM] Celz: Since you need initative and a lot of attributes you posess [2:20:04 PM] mariusaglen: I like that one, I'm using that one Ok ok, that's my plea, so what ya think, you think they'd hire me?? | ||
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r3dox
Germany261 Posts
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