• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:42
CEST 15:42
KST 22:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War875.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War BSL23 Confirmations Starts on New BSL Portal
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B ASL 22 Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13961 users

Death and the Mater Familiae

Blogs > VGhost
Post a Reply
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3621 Posts
November 08 2011 16:11 GMT
#1
Yesterday I heard from my parents, who had heard from a church acquaintance, who knew somehow, that a woman my family had known briefly had died, apparently as a suicide. It was startling - because I never knew them well, and because we haven't heard from them in years - but I also found myself shocked, not by the event but by my initial, almost instant reaction: the thought formed, "You know, I am not really surprised."

She had nine children; in the brief year I knew them back in elementary school they only had I think five or six, though I can't remember more than three faces. I only knew one of them even remotely: a kid maybe a little younger than me whom I always thought was named "Owen" even though he wasn't.

We might have gone to their house once for dinner on a Sunday night; I'm 80% sure they never came to ours. They were the first family I recall that stuck out in my mind as "odd", reclusive: now I would classify them, at least in the attitude I remember back then, as "more conservative than us", or even "fundamentalist", with many of the connotations that carries in Christian circles.

I've known several other families in the same mould since: the impression that's grown and stuck with me of these people is that the women are very quiet: the wives and mothers especially not apparently unhappy, most of the time, but stern, often projecting not the calm they seem to idealize but instead a sort of cultivated emotionlessness.

It seems to me a nearly unnatural way to live.

Also yesterday, I heard from my roommate that his brother's wife had miscarried. This is equally tragic, in its own different way - but again I had to fight not to find it horrendous. Apparently she has miscarried three times: they have no living children that I know of. And my instinctive reaction is to ask whether, at some point, you have to stop trying. To at least visit a doctor, and find out if there are medical issues here. If you need children - adopt?

My own aunt and uncle had a miscarriage: as far as I know they never tried again, but they work with students and other younger people in their free time. I have friends, who had five children. They are wonderful people, and love their kids, and might have had more, but when the doctor said it was dangerous - they adopted, instead.

There is immense pressure within some circles, of the Christian church but maybe elsewhere, for married people to have kids - and for unmarried people to marry. I'm no one's idea of a hyper-feminist: I'm a fairly conservative Christian myself; I think abortion is wrong; the chivalric instincts of my upbringing still create a knee-jerk reaction that makes me uncomfortable with certain ideas, say that of women in the military. In the abstract: I have good friends in the military, both men and women, and no problem with either. I've never found any sustainable argument (even from the Bible) to back up the feeling, and it's not a point I would ever argue for: I am simply trying to illustrate my own background here.

But I've become more and more uncomfortable with this emphasis over the years. It's not entirely unnatural, of course: the reproductive instinct is not something we can overlook. And philosophically, in some ways it's simply a reaction, I think, to the excesses of some feminists who have all but proclaimed all mothers to be slaves and all marriage unnatural. In other ways - speaking here distinctly as a Christian - it's indicative of the perpetual problem of trying to get by your own efforts what is promised as a gift and blessing that you actually have minimal control over. There are worse problems than this particular semi-obsession, but at the same time I wonder and worry about the stress it seems to put particularly on the women in these families, both mothers expected to produce, and daughters being raised with this as their ideal.

Because the simple fact is that not everyone can fit exactly the same model - even if this one does make some people happy. I remember one evening with another family of the same sort when a girl was sent to her room briefly during dinner, I think for something ridiculous like not closing her eyes when her father was praying. Now, while most of the family is more or less comfortably following this "fundie" model, she's moved herself back into a much less "sterile", environment: accepted and embraced what seems to me a fuller way of doing things, and I can't help thinking it's a good thing. Maybe it works for her mother and sisters, but I can't see her fitting in: I don't see how this particular girl would have the emotional room to deal with the stress.

So this is why I wasn't surprised... which still seems like a terrible thing to think. I don't mean I would have ever expected it, or even that I find it in some weird way rational. It's just that I have thought for a while now that the way of living these people do has to be hard, unnecessarily, demandingly, emotionally hard: getting rid of that, even in this most drastic way, seems, not good, not right - but understandable.

But it also leaves me dealing with the question of what, if anything, I take from it myself. I feel silly talking about these things: I've never been in a tough enough situation to come close to even contemplating suicide - the closest I've gotten is a vague intellectual curiosity as to the actual experience, but it's not one I propose to experiment with. I'm not married, don't have kids - I can't really relate there either. And of course I could be off-base with my observations, or the incident could have nothing to do with these pressures even if they are real. But it's one more piece of evidence, one more bit of knowledge gained from life, to file away and factor in to my attitudes and philosophy going forward. I'm just not sure what the conclusion is.

**
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12175 Posts
November 08 2011 16:36 GMT
#2
As for suicide, I have contemplated it. I have never had a tough time. All that is needed is not liking the current state and not feeling you have it in you to change it. It is a mental condition and not a mark of how tough things actually are, I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of normal people has considered it at one time or another.

As for the main topic, social pressure to conform. That is always there, no matter what style of life you lead there is pressure of one kind or another. It is sadly necessary to keep society functional since we can't act out some things without it breaking down.
Battleaxe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States843 Posts
November 08 2011 16:59 GMT
#3
Have to agree with Yurie on the social pressure, there's really no stopping that. At some point you'll most likely feel the pressure from one direction or another. I've found the best way to deal is to just stay true to yourself and distance yourself from anyone pressuring you to conform to something you're not comfortable with, and that goes for family, friends, everything.

As far as suicide, I've also thought about it. Don't see the harm in thinking about it. For me it actually tends to help get myself back on track, as I usually come to the realization of "stop being an idiot, press on, your life is actually pretty good". With that said, I'm also a practicing (loosely, because I haven't made the dedicated plunge yet) stoic, which actually allows for suicide under certain constraints. To dumb it down incredibly, if you were in a situation where let's say you lost your job, house, family, and essentially had nothing left to live for, it would be acceptable under stoic thought to commit suicide. Even with this school of thought, it's still only acceptable in extreme cases. Suicide is certainly a funny thing, on the one hand it is your life, and you are certainly entitled to do what you will. On the other hand, I do accept that it does seem like a selfish act IF you are leaving behind children, especially young children. As children become older and can support themselves, I see the possibility of suicide opening back up as there's no need to support your children anymore. I have been affected by suicide, and I find it incredible the same people who scream that suicide is a selfish act don't realize themselves how selfish they're being saying someone shouldn't have ended their own life if they chose to.
Without a community, we're all just a bunch of geeks.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
20:00
2026 Week 27
IntoTheiNu 921
WardiTV649
RotterdaM469
TKL 314
SteadfastSC110
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 469
Lowko460
TKL 308
Reynor 294
SteadfastSC 108
ProTech16
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 1022
Horang2 995
BeSt 839
EffOrt 796
Soma 639
FanTaSy 557
Larva 384
Light 328
Snow 283
Zeus 266
[ Show more ]
actioN 230
ZerO 182
hero 99
Hyun 96
Last 93
PianO 70
Sharp 52
Pusan 50
ToSsGirL 42
sSak 34
Shinee 32
Sacsri 31
Mong 30
JYJ 23
Creator 21
Bishop 20
scan(afreeca) 20
sorry 18
Terrorterran 16
Rock 11
Noble 8
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5178
qojqva1453
Dendi975
syndereN269
Counter-Strike
fl0m2634
olofmeister1261
Other Games
singsing2290
B2W.Neo777
hiko731
crisheroes262
byalli243
DeMusliM233
Hui .162
Pyrionflax140
Liquid`VortiX134
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 25
lovetv 11
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 54
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 26
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1182
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
20h 18m
WardiTV Qualifier
21h 18m
Online Event
1d 21h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-13
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.