• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:22
CET 11:22
KST 19:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)11Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1419 users

Death and the Mater Familiae

Blogs > VGhost
Post a Reply
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3616 Posts
November 08 2011 16:11 GMT
#1
Yesterday I heard from my parents, who had heard from a church acquaintance, who knew somehow, that a woman my family had known briefly had died, apparently as a suicide. It was startling - because I never knew them well, and because we haven't heard from them in years - but I also found myself shocked, not by the event but by my initial, almost instant reaction: the thought formed, "You know, I am not really surprised."

She had nine children; in the brief year I knew them back in elementary school they only had I think five or six, though I can't remember more than three faces. I only knew one of them even remotely: a kid maybe a little younger than me whom I always thought was named "Owen" even though he wasn't.

We might have gone to their house once for dinner on a Sunday night; I'm 80% sure they never came to ours. They were the first family I recall that stuck out in my mind as "odd", reclusive: now I would classify them, at least in the attitude I remember back then, as "more conservative than us", or even "fundamentalist", with many of the connotations that carries in Christian circles.

I've known several other families in the same mould since: the impression that's grown and stuck with me of these people is that the women are very quiet: the wives and mothers especially not apparently unhappy, most of the time, but stern, often projecting not the calm they seem to idealize but instead a sort of cultivated emotionlessness.

It seems to me a nearly unnatural way to live.

Also yesterday, I heard from my roommate that his brother's wife had miscarried. This is equally tragic, in its own different way - but again I had to fight not to find it horrendous. Apparently she has miscarried three times: they have no living children that I know of. And my instinctive reaction is to ask whether, at some point, you have to stop trying. To at least visit a doctor, and find out if there are medical issues here. If you need children - adopt?

My own aunt and uncle had a miscarriage: as far as I know they never tried again, but they work with students and other younger people in their free time. I have friends, who had five children. They are wonderful people, and love their kids, and might have had more, but when the doctor said it was dangerous - they adopted, instead.

There is immense pressure within some circles, of the Christian church but maybe elsewhere, for married people to have kids - and for unmarried people to marry. I'm no one's idea of a hyper-feminist: I'm a fairly conservative Christian myself; I think abortion is wrong; the chivalric instincts of my upbringing still create a knee-jerk reaction that makes me uncomfortable with certain ideas, say that of women in the military. In the abstract: I have good friends in the military, both men and women, and no problem with either. I've never found any sustainable argument (even from the Bible) to back up the feeling, and it's not a point I would ever argue for: I am simply trying to illustrate my own background here.

But I've become more and more uncomfortable with this emphasis over the years. It's not entirely unnatural, of course: the reproductive instinct is not something we can overlook. And philosophically, in some ways it's simply a reaction, I think, to the excesses of some feminists who have all but proclaimed all mothers to be slaves and all marriage unnatural. In other ways - speaking here distinctly as a Christian - it's indicative of the perpetual problem of trying to get by your own efforts what is promised as a gift and blessing that you actually have minimal control over. There are worse problems than this particular semi-obsession, but at the same time I wonder and worry about the stress it seems to put particularly on the women in these families, both mothers expected to produce, and daughters being raised with this as their ideal.

Because the simple fact is that not everyone can fit exactly the same model - even if this one does make some people happy. I remember one evening with another family of the same sort when a girl was sent to her room briefly during dinner, I think for something ridiculous like not closing her eyes when her father was praying. Now, while most of the family is more or less comfortably following this "fundie" model, she's moved herself back into a much less "sterile", environment: accepted and embraced what seems to me a fuller way of doing things, and I can't help thinking it's a good thing. Maybe it works for her mother and sisters, but I can't see her fitting in: I don't see how this particular girl would have the emotional room to deal with the stress.

So this is why I wasn't surprised... which still seems like a terrible thing to think. I don't mean I would have ever expected it, or even that I find it in some weird way rational. It's just that I have thought for a while now that the way of living these people do has to be hard, unnecessarily, demandingly, emotionally hard: getting rid of that, even in this most drastic way, seems, not good, not right - but understandable.

But it also leaves me dealing with the question of what, if anything, I take from it myself. I feel silly talking about these things: I've never been in a tough enough situation to come close to even contemplating suicide - the closest I've gotten is a vague intellectual curiosity as to the actual experience, but it's not one I propose to experiment with. I'm not married, don't have kids - I can't really relate there either. And of course I could be off-base with my observations, or the incident could have nothing to do with these pressures even if they are real. But it's one more piece of evidence, one more bit of knowledge gained from life, to file away and factor in to my attitudes and philosophy going forward. I'm just not sure what the conclusion is.

**
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11998 Posts
November 08 2011 16:36 GMT
#2
As for suicide, I have contemplated it. I have never had a tough time. All that is needed is not liking the current state and not feeling you have it in you to change it. It is a mental condition and not a mark of how tough things actually are, I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of normal people has considered it at one time or another.

As for the main topic, social pressure to conform. That is always there, no matter what style of life you lead there is pressure of one kind or another. It is sadly necessary to keep society functional since we can't act out some things without it breaking down.
Battleaxe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States843 Posts
November 08 2011 16:59 GMT
#3
Have to agree with Yurie on the social pressure, there's really no stopping that. At some point you'll most likely feel the pressure from one direction or another. I've found the best way to deal is to just stay true to yourself and distance yourself from anyone pressuring you to conform to something you're not comfortable with, and that goes for family, friends, everything.

As far as suicide, I've also thought about it. Don't see the harm in thinking about it. For me it actually tends to help get myself back on track, as I usually come to the realization of "stop being an idiot, press on, your life is actually pretty good". With that said, I'm also a practicing (loosely, because I haven't made the dedicated plunge yet) stoic, which actually allows for suicide under certain constraints. To dumb it down incredibly, if you were in a situation where let's say you lost your job, house, family, and essentially had nothing left to live for, it would be acceptable under stoic thought to commit suicide. Even with this school of thought, it's still only acceptable in extreme cases. Suicide is certainly a funny thing, on the one hand it is your life, and you are certainly entitled to do what you will. On the other hand, I do accept that it does seem like a selfish act IF you are leaving behind children, especially young children. As children become older and can support themselves, I see the possibility of suicide opening back up as there's no need to support your children anymore. I have been affected by suicide, and I find it incredible the same people who scream that suicide is a selfish act don't realize themselves how selfish they're being saying someone shouldn't have ended their own life if they chose to.
Without a community, we're all just a bunch of geeks.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #68
CranKy Ducklings135
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2561
Hyuk 1649
Horang2 881
Larva 495
BeSt 443
actioN 341
EffOrt 149
Zeus 146
sorry 131
Light 111
[ Show more ]
Barracks 111
Leta 107
ggaemo 76
Killer 72
Mini 71
Rush 71
Mind 54
Pusan 52
Sharp 43
Aegong 43
ZerO 38
Mong 32
910 31
Free 23
JulyZerg 22
Sacsri 18
Noble 17
Movie 16
soO 15
zelot 11
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm101
ODPixel78
canceldota53
League of Legends
JimRising 517
C9.Mang0336
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss703
allub351
Other Games
ceh9498
Pyrionflax229
Livibee92
ZerO(Twitch)6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4465
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH182
• LUISG 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt793
• HappyZerGling146
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
3h 38m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 38m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
OSC
4 days
All Star Teams
4 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
All Star Teams
5 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-11
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.