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It finally happened TL, my old Dell Dimension 5150 - the bane of my existence for 6 years - has died.
+ Show Spoiler [The Old One] + Technically speaking, I'm the one that killed it. For the longest time this PC has barely run Starcraft with 4GB of memory and an ATI Radeon X300 card, with a whopping 32 MB of RAM. So, when I recently came across a comparatively better Sapphire HD 4830 with 512 MB of RAM, I made every effort to jam the thing in there. Believe me, when I say "jam," I mean I literally cut off the wings on the fan and jammed it in so it would fit. I'm willing to bet that my power supply - my second one, from China - couldn't handle the new load, and after a week the thing finally died. Not entirely sure, but this is as good an excuse as any to update, since having a 6-year-old computer isn't really conducive to playing Starcraft 2, or Diablo 3. Playing games is literally me watching a slideshow and entering a series of commands hoping that most of them are executed. The other day I made my own game of Gem TD and lagged out of it - I was the only one in the game  .
So now I find myself in a position where I can get a new PC, and I very much want to build it myself. I'll only buy a pre-built machine if it is somehow exactly what I want and better value; I don't see that happening. Here's a rough idea of what I'm looking for:
Budget:
I don't have a boatload of cash at my disposal, and I do have living expenses to pay for, so my budget is set at a modest $1000 for a tower. I'm willing to go as high as $1200 as a ceiling.
Wish List:
Motherboard: Don't know much about motherboards, and I don't care. I know there are gaming motherboards but I only want to spend about ~$150. Just has to be able to handle everything.
Processor: Want a good i5, but probably an i7. What's a good processor speed if I want to run SC2 on Extreme?
CPU Cooler: Not a priority although I'll shell out $30-40 dollars on one.
Memory: 8GB DDR3 minimum, EZ.
Graphics: The most important thing to me around which I want to build my new PC. I want an ATI Radeon HD 6950 or other 6900 series if I can.
Hard Drive: Storage capacity is not a problem for me although storage speed is. I already have a 1 TB external, so anything 1 TB or less is fine. I'd go for solid state but don't care too much.
Optical Drive: Oh boy do I not care about this. Any DVD burner optical drive is fine.
Case: Don't care much about how flashy the case is, but anything ~$100 or less is fine by me. If it looks cool that's a bonus.
Power: Whatever doesn't die, and whatever works. I just don't want to have an underpowered system, that's for sure.
Peripherals: I need none, so this isn't even included in the budget. Everything is going towards the tower.
Software: I can get Windows 7 64 bit for free from my school, as well as Office Professional 2010, so that's pretty much all I need that I have to pay for. All my old programs I'll get from my old hard drive. Quick question though; I have a McAfee subscription that hasn't expired yet. Should I even bother? Do people even need full professional antivirus in 2011, or can I get away with AVGfree?
So that's it in a nutshell what I want. I'll be going to Canada Computers at Weber & University in Waterloo tomorrow to see what they have and I'm consulting whoever I can for advice. I want to order everything Wednesday. I'm very welcome to any suggestions and advice, since I've never done anything like this before.
 
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You don't really need an i7 for gaming uses, the benefits over an i5 are negligible.
Assuming you want to overclock, you'll want an i5-2500k and a CPU Cooler. If you don't, you'll want an i5-2x00 and go with the stock cooler.
If you overclock, you'd need a P67 motherboard and if you don't plan on overclocking, you would go with a H61/H67 Motherboard.
Look through the Computer Build Resource Thread and Optimized Gaming Computer Builds for Every Budget threads for ideas.
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AVGFree, or even the windows stuff is fine.
Antec 300 is my case of choice.
If there is an ability to delay I might delay on the basis of the HD. It's easily $ 100 more for a 1tb drive than normal.
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On November 07 2011 13:49 WayHeroic wrote:
You don't really need an i7 for gaming uses, the benefits over an i5 are negligible.
Just to make sure you're reading this correctly, read "negligible" as maybe a few percentage points, in situations where the CPU is the limiting factor (very rare in most games with an overclocked i5-2500k).
You've got the right idea for components.
Hard drives are like 150%-300% of normal price because of flooding in Thailand, so look around for prices. With a $1000 budget maybe one idea is to just get like a 128GB SSD (Crucial M4, Intel 320, Intel 510, older Crucial C300, maybe Samsung 830 preferred for reliability, maybe older Samsung 470) for a bit above $200 and run all your programs off of that and just use your external for everything else. i.e. don't buy a new mechanical drive at these very high prices. At normal prices, a 2TB 5400 rpm storage drive should be like $80, a 1TB 7200rpm faster drive at about $60.
An overclocked i5-2500k and overclocked HD 6950 system is not going to exceed 400W power draw while maxing out power draw with synthetic stress tests, usually much much less. If somebody is talking you into a power supply above 520W, you're getting scammed. However there are lots of terrible options that claim 500W or more and can't do anything safely, so beware.
You want a P67 or Z68 motherboard. Both are fine. Over about $125 is probably more than you need. Just avoid Asus __ LE and MSI C43, and some of the lowest-end Gigabyte (lower than D3) and AsRock models (lower than Pro3) if you want to overclock the i5-2500k a decent amount.
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http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139010
I know you wanted <$100 for a case but I got this case a couple weeks ago. Has great cable management and airflow and it looks pretty cool too
CPU, i5-2500k is more than enough to play sc2 on extreme. Mine is overclocked to 4.5GHz and with a Toxic 6950, I get an average of 120fps in game
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I would recommend the Antec One Hundred over the 300, the One Hundred has room behind the motherboard tray to route wires so the case has a clean look and good airflow.
If you have room in your budget, you may want to consider a modular power supply. Use only the cables that you need.
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You can't go wrong with an Arc Midi tower, although they are a bit above your price preference.
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On November 07 2011 13:34 TheGiz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It finally happened TL, my old Dell Dimension 5150 - the bane of my existence for 6 years - has died. + Show Spoiler [The Old One] + Technically speaking, I'm the one that killed it. For the longest time this PC has barely run Starcraft with 4GB of memory and an ATI Radeon X300 card, with a whopping 32 MB of RAM. So, when I recently came across a comparatively better Sapphire HD 4830 with 512 MB of RAM, I made every effort to jam the thing in there. Believe me, when I say "jam," I mean I literally cut off the wings on the fan and jammed it in so it would fit. I'm willing to bet that my power supply - my second one, from China - couldn't handle the new load, and after a week the thing finally died. Not entirely sure, but this is as good an excuse as any to update, since having a 6-year-old computer isn't really conducive to playing Starcraft 2, or Diablo 3. Playing games is literally me watching a slideshow and entering a series of commands hoping that most of them are executed. The other day I made my own game of Gem TD and lagged out of it - I was the only one in the game . So now I find myself in a position where I can get a new PC, and I very much want to build it myself. I'll only buy a pre-built machine if it is somehow exactly what I want and better value; I don't see that happening. Here's a rough idea of what I'm looking for: Budget: I don't have a boatload of cash at my disposal, and I do have living expenses to pay for, so my budget is set at a modest $1000 for a tower. I'm willing to go as high as $1200 as a ceiling. Wish List:Motherboard: Don't know much about motherboards, and I don't care. I know there are gaming motherboards but I only want to spend about ~$150. Just has to be able to handle everything. Processor: Want a good i5, but probably an i7. What's a good processor speed if I want to run SC2 on Extreme? CPU Cooler: Not a priority although I'll shell out $30-40 dollars on one. Memory: 8GB DDR3 minimum, EZ. Graphics: The most important thing to me around which I want to build my new PC. I want an ATI Radeon HD 6950 or other 6900 series if I can. Hard Drive: Storage capacity is not a problem for me although storage speed is. I already have a 1 TB external, so anything 1 TB or less is fine. I'd go for solid state but don't care too much. Optical Drive: Oh boy do I not care about this. Any DVD burner optical drive is fine. Case: Don't care much about how flashy the case is, but anything ~$100 or less is fine by me. If it looks cool that's a bonus. Power: Whatever doesn't die, and whatever works. I just don't want to have an underpowered system, that's for sure. Peripherals: I need none, so this isn't even included in the budget. Everything is going towards the tower. Software: I can get Windows 7 64 bit for free from my school, as well as Office Professional 2010, so that's pretty much all I need that I have to pay for. All my old programs I'll get from my old hard drive. Quick question though; I have a McAfee subscription that hasn't expired yet. Should I even bother? Do people even need full professional antivirus in 2011, or can I get away with AVGfree?
So that's it in a nutshell what I want. I'll be going to Canada Computers at Weber & University in Waterloo tomorrow to see what they have and I'm consulting whoever I can for advice. I want to order everything Wednesday. I'm very welcome to any suggestions and advice, since I've never done anything like this before.
The major selling point of the core i7 is its hyperthreading. The majority of games which includes Starcraft II cannot utilize more than four cores, most only utilizing two or three and with some starting to make use of more. The core i7 will only really shine in tasks that are well multi-threaded such as encoding. The extra cache and higher frequency on the core i7 (2MB and 100MHz in the case of i5 2500k vs i7 2600k) is negligible.
You can't compare processor speed across architectures as each will have different instructions per clock. So don't be fooled by AMD's marketing as their FX processors are truly shit for gaming - barely beating their older Phenom II processors and consuming much more power even though it's on a smaller manufacturing process. Here are two reviews for your reference: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fx-8150_10.html#sect0 and http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested/8
You'll want a core i5 2500k: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=035530 Pricematch this to $214.79 using http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/232639/Intel/BX80623I52500K/ .
For heatsink, you'll want the Coolermaster Hyper 212+: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=025125 Pricematch to $24.20 using http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/218427/COOLERMASTER/RR_B10_212P_G1/ .
You want a P67 or Z68 motherboard as mentioned. The difference is that the Z68 allows for the use of the IGP which in turn allows for Quick Sync and Lucid. It also allows for SSD caching (Smart Response Technology). All of these features are useless for the majority of consumers. So don't worry about the differences.
For someone who isn't well verse in computers, you don't want to overspend on the motherboard since the more expensive ones will have features you will never use or stuff you will never notice such as on-board buttons, dual ethernet, more power phases, etc.
The Asrock Z68 Pro3 for $129.99 seems to be the best option since everything else is out of stock at the Waterloo location: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=042019
For memory, you'll want the least expensive 2x4GB kit. In this case, it's these Kingstons for $44.99: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=041084 The difference between higher frequency and lower timings for memory is negligible so money is better spent elsewhere first. For your reference: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/sandy-bridge-ddr3.html and http://techreport.com/articles.x/20377
If those aren't available than just get another 2x4gb kit. Besides Kingston, GSkill and Mushkin usually has the least expensive 2x4GB kits in Canada. You want to be paying close to $40, anything above $50 means you got ripped off or made a poor decision.
DVD drive isn't important like you said. Just don't pay anything over $20 for a burner.
For power supply, you'll want a ~500w unit for an overclocked 2500k and an overclocked 6950. Not all power supplies are equal even if both are advertised as 500w so don't buy a random power supply based on the recommendation of the sales rep. Canada Computers doesn't have a good selection of power supplies and it also doesn't help that you're limited to the Waterloo location. For your reference, a Radeon HD6950 and an overclocked Bloomfield (which consumes much more power than a core i5 2500k) configuration consumes 292w at the wall (AC, your power supply is DC so with 85% efficiency - it's about 250w) during Crysis: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950/24
The Corsair CX500V2 is your best option: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=038033 Pricematch to $44.99 using http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=60329&promoid=1287 . If it's not available and you don't have time to do research than stick to Seasonic, Corsair, and Antec power supplies.
Get a Crucial M4 for $189.99: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=039183 Install your regularly used software and games here, use external HDD for everything else.
For graphics, get the 1GB variant of the 6950. The 2GB variant won't be beneficial to you until you get into higher resolutions. Though 6950 1GB variant isn't that price competitive here in Canada - I think the GTX 560 Ti is a slightly better option.
For case, just pick a case to your liking and wants. Antec Hundred series of cases aren't that great - most (all) lack tool-less features, front panel USB3, CPU tray cutout, and cable management. Not to mention they still use the ancient HDD mounting system.
If you want a quiet computer than you'll want a noise dampening case such as the Fractal Design Define R3, Antec Solo II, Antec P183, or NZXT H2. If you don't care about noise levels than pick any case - a good option is the BitFenix Shinbi: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?&item_id=042506 You can pricematch to $61.05 using http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/236378/BitFenix/BFC_SNB_150_WWWB_SP/
This configuration should cost no more than $1000. If it is than you are doing something wrong.
And yes you can buy a prebuilt (technically?). NCIX will assemble for a fee of $50: http://ncix.com/products/?sku=7842 It'll be exactly what you want and be a better value than purchasing from Canada Computers since their selection of components is much larger.
On November 07 2011 14:30 boobalotcha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139010I know you wanted <$100 for a case but I got this case a couple weeks ago. Has great cable management and airflow and it looks pretty cool too CPU, i5-2500k is more than enough to play sc2 on extreme. Mine is overclocked to 4.5GHz and with a Toxic 6950, I get an average of 120fps in game
And this is a load of crap. There is no way you can average 120 FPS on extreme in this game (given a normal ladder situation) unless you were staring at the corner of the screen for the entire game or playing at a very low resolution. And even in both these cases, I would still doubt you average 120 FPS.
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I'd like to thank everyone for their responses - they've been extremely helpful, especially you skyR. This is why I find blogging so useful.
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UPDATE:
I went to Canada Computers and put together a purchase order that I haven't yet committed on, mostly because I want to comparatively shop in order to knock my prices down. I think the machine I have is pretty decent but I'm missing a few things. Let me know what you guys think.
Processor: $209.99 $10 discount included
Intel Core i5-2500 (LGA 1155) (3.3 GHz)
This isn't the 2500k so I can't overclock it, which is my main concern. If I get this it saves me money because I won't need a CPU cooler with this chip. I'm leaning towards getting the 2500k though.
Intel Core i5-2500k (LGA 1155) (3.3 GHz) $214.79
Found at Best Direct. Obviously I'm going with this one.
Motherboard: $129.99 $5 mail-in rebate available
ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3
This is more or less the right motherboard for what I'm getting, I think.
Power Supply: $65.99 $10 discount included
Corsair Builder Series CX600 V2 (600W) (80+ Certified)
I fought to keep the power supply size down. I think this is what I'm looking for, no?
Memory: $54.99
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series DDR3 1600 MHz 8GB Dual Channel Kit
No problems here. Just have to double check the price.
Hard Drive: $184.99
Corsair Force Series 3 120 GB SATA III SSD
Holy Hell are hard drives expensive now. This seems to be the best bang for my buck in the store, since everything else is basically too small or too expensive. I might replace this drive later when prices go down, or look elsewhere right now.
GRAPHICS: $319.99
Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 6950 TOXIC 2GB GDDR5 PCIe-2
This is obviously exactly what I want, and I expect this card to last me a while. The 2GB is only like $30 more than the 1GB so I'm not bothering with the smaller card. My only concern is whether my chipset is heavily limiting what this card can do right now. That being said I probably won't be running at resolutions where the 2GB will kick in full.
Case: $99.99
Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid Tower Case (Black)
Comes with 4 fans and I can upgrade to even larger fans if I want. Starting next year I'll look into sprucing the case and its cooling capabilities up, but for right now this seems to be exactly what I want.
You'll notice I'm missing a few things. I have a wireless G network card in my older machine that I may use, or I will try and utilize the Ethernet port in my wall. The other thing I need is an optical drive, which is cheap at <$25 or I can just use my old one. It seems to be fine. All told the price comes in at $1065.93, which is $1204.50 after tax. Obviously I'm going to knock that down through comparative shopping, but I might change my mind on some of my hardware choices, specifically the chip.
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Most of those components are slightly overpriced but that's a given since you said you haven't pricematched yet.
The price difference between a core i5 2500 and 2500k isn't $40, it's only around $15. And if you are going to overclock than get the 2500k. If not, than get a H67 motherboard instead. There is little point in upgrading from a 2500 to an Ivybridge because games aren't likely to take advantage of the eight threads provided by the i7. In a few years (3+ years for most people), you'll need a new motherboard for Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, or Skymont processors which will destroy the current Sandybridge and next year's Ivybridge.
Most motherboards only have a few USB3 ports because it's not natively supported by the current generation of chipsets, it's handled by a third party controller. Most motherboard have plenty of USB2 ports. USB3 is obviously faster but you don't need this speed for the keyboard, mouse, headset, and most of the stuff you plug into the USB port.
The chipset won't be limiting the card.
Corsair Force series of SSDs use a Sandforce controller which isn't liked among most computer savvy individuals since it has experienced many reliability issues and it has only recently been fixed. Crucial M4 is only $5 more expensive and is usually regarded as the best SSD to purchase as it's price is good, performance is good, and reliability is good.
CX600V2 for $56 is okay but there are probably better options. The CX500V2 is $10 less and perfectly suitable for a single card configuration.
I'm in class right now so I have to keep this short - sorry.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.pinondeer.com/images/Dell5150_Big.jpg)
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