• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:21
CET 02:21
KST 10:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1539 users

First blog - discussing SC2

Blogs > Ero-Sennin
Post a Reply
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
October 27 2011 00:26 GMT
#1
After watching State of the Game last night, I was struck with an idea on how to fix the ghost. The biggest problem (as a Protoss player) I feel is EMP. I do not think it has to do with the radius, but with how easily you can get a ghost out.

With BW, Terran would have a handful of science vessels, but they were more easily targetable and the EMP was dodgeable.

Here's my thoughts. In HoTS they should remove EMP from the ghost and give it to the Raven (not sure if it should be dodgeable or not), and then remove auto turret from the Raven. Ghosts will still be useful (cloak, nuke, snipe), but EMP won't be as readily available. This forces the Terran to control another unit (Raven, which one could argue it needing fusion core, but I'm not married to that idea) which would be a little more easily targetable by the Protoss and add some more diversity (do I want to get a Raven out right away before I start medivac production? Or wait?) and skill into the game.

This could lead to Protoss coming up with some new interesting timings which the Terran wouldn't have EMP readily available like they would with the ghost. Terran would have to rely even more on positioning, micro, and possibly implementing those new battle hellions to help against zealots.

The only "drawback" I could see is newbs whining about it being too difficult. Cool, I could care less about you. Sorry, it's blunt, but it's true. If they implemented this I believe it'd make HoTS more difficult than WoL, which leads to the higher skilled player winning even more. If newbs want to play an easier game, they could play WoL. BW is harder than vanilla SC, and this will allow HoTS to be harder than WoL.

Thoughts? Think I'm on to something? Or crazy?

What can you see that would be better?

Thanks

**
Luck makes talent look like genius.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 27 2011 00:43 GMT
#2
A month ago I would have said "Look, when theorycrafting just try to remember that they aren't talking about redesigning the entire game, just altering units. Little tweaks, a couple new units."

Then Blizzcon came and I was proven to be flat out wrong.

God knows man. It'd certainly encourage more sci.. raven usage and make ghosts much less useful but I kind of think on first impression that your suggestion goes way too far. It doesn't upset the applecart- it burns it to the ground. TvP would be completely foreign and mech would all of a sudden become a hugely viable choice all of the time.

Anyway, I don't really theorycraft all that often and am not the best person to respond. Really I just came here to say congratulations on your first blog ^_^
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 01:46:10
October 27 2011 01:45 GMT
#3
Just a 2 radius EMP to the Raven actually sounds like a really good idea. I don't know TvP well, but it seems like it can fix a lot because Ravens are pretty slow and easier to target. It is a pretty simple change too, which I like. Sometimes it feels that some changes and theorycrafts are trying to make the game mechanics too complex. It is good for balance, but not good for spectating.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
October 27 2011 01:58 GMT
#4
sounds like a change that would make sc2 feel more like bw....feel more logical...those kinds of changes never seem to happen T_T;
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
October 27 2011 02:44 GMT
#5
Lol, I know right? T_T

At least this game isn't as bad as it was even 6 months ago, so, I mean there are some glimmers of hope.
Luck makes talent look like genius.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
October 27 2011 03:10 GMT
#6
That's exactly what I told Azn on skype a while ago 0_o. You'd have to buff the Ghost damage or something to compensate but it'd be better.
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
October 27 2011 04:23 GMT
#7
Ahh, <3 sc2gg newblets ^^

Heh, I'm not entirely convinced you'd have to buff the ghost, as right now it's not used for anything more than snipe/emp. At what point does a Terran look and say, "If only I had ghosts that were doing regular attack dmg." No, they may say "If only I had more ghost for another EMP (or snipe, whatever)."

So I think you could leave it how it is and just see how that plays out
Luck makes talent look like genius.
pandaBee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States251 Posts
October 27 2011 05:01 GMT
#8
this actually does not seem to be a bad idea. more science vesselly.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 05:34:36
October 27 2011 05:06 GMT
#9
Yeah but Ghost'd need something to make them useful in TvP. I don't play TvP so I wouldn't know but making ghosts just to snipe high templar seems redundant.

But I agree 100%.
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-27 06:06:13
October 27 2011 06:03 GMT
#10
Cloak and snipe could be effective against a Protoss who may skip collosus and focus more on a HT/chargelot/archon composition, for example. Then the raven with EMP + good micro and battle hellion (like a vulture, I'm thinking, dealing a good amount of damage to the light armored units) to eat up the zealots.

Although one could also raise the question, does every unit have to play a role in every match up? Two examples I can think of is:

TvP BW, how many times have you seen a medic? Once in a blue moon as a part of a weird timing. But they can play a vital role in TvZ

PvT BW, how many times do you see a corsair? Rarely, but that doesn't mean it needs a buff, you know what I mean?

I mean, let's say the change I presented in the OP happens, and then Protoss (after 2 months) continues to dominate Terran at the highest level, then you could look at possibly buffing the ghost dmg, or what have you, depending on the data, but I don't that that would happen at all. I definitely think the lower skilled/mechanically deficient/slower players would struggle, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I think it'd open up the game more at the higher levels of play.
Luck makes talent look like genius.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
October 27 2011 11:28 GMT
#11
On October 27 2011 14:06 neobowman wrote:
Yeah but Ghost'd need something to make them useful in TvP. I don't play TvP so I wouldn't know but making ghosts just to snipe high templar seems redundant.

But I agree 100%.

Well Terran already have enough stuff, so I think Ghost being used in one MU and Raven being used in another wouldn't be that bad. But if they would want to put another spell on the ghost, it definitely shouldn't be something as game changing as EMP.
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
October 27 2011 15:24 GMT
#12
Well, glad to see my first blog being received positively so far ;D
Luck makes talent look like genius.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
October 27 2011 21:56 GMT
#13
You're probably right about the stuff. Like even the hydra was only really used in ZvP.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 27 2011 22:05 GMT
#14
I'd be ok with this as long as the raven only cost 100 gas. make it 200/100. and while were at it, reduce the nrg cost of seeker missle cuz i think we all know 125 renders it completely useless. make emp 75 seeker missle 75 and pdd 75.
TL+ Member
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
October 28 2011 04:24 GMT
#15
Yeah, that may be good. It'd be nice to find out
Luck makes talent look like genius.
OopsOopsBaby
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Singapore3425 Posts
October 28 2011 07:48 GMT
#16
Some ideas i have got without the need to introduce emp to the raven:
the main gripe with emp is less on the energy removal but the shield removal as mentioned in sotg. with the heavily clumped protoss ball, a couple of well placed emp can potential deal 1-2k instant damage to shields.

emp as a shield debuff. shield damage done over time so you cant stack mutiple emps to remove shields. the skill can be a aoe where protoss can avoid staying in and take shield loss or a debuff that stays on the unit for full duration but thats up to balance.

energy removal stays instant.
s3x2-2 xiao3x2+2 bone3+2+2
Ero-Sennin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States756 Posts
November 02 2011 20:04 GMT
#17
Would you make EMP dodgeable or no?
Luck makes talent look like genius.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
WardiTV Mondays #62
CranKy Ducklings87
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft474
elazer 184
Nathanias 62
CosmosSc2 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 660
Larva 164
Bale 25
Noble 23
Dota 2
syndereN873
monkeys_forever625
NeuroSwarm44
League of Legends
C9.Mang0295
Counter-Strike
Foxcn237
Other Games
summit1g12766
tarik_tv5114
FrodaN1507
Day[9].tv715
shahzam516
RotterdaM166
Maynarde123
Mew2King84
ViBE46
ToD21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick724
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 47
• davetesta20
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 36
• Azhi_Dahaki15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler57
League of Legends
• Doublelift5090
Other Games
• imaqtpie1371
• Day9tv715
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
8h 39m
OSC
14h 39m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
22h 39m
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.