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All I want from the next patch is to have the ability to veto match ups. I mean I would love laddering if I could simply veto PvT. I mean at my level, (top platinum) terran players finally get their heads around what a build is. Now they have no true ability at this point, much like the protoss of early year getting to masters through 4-gate. At least in the match up of PvT. All they do is run head first into the 1-1-1 build. It actually shows how little skill these players have, when seeing I was in a PvT, I said to my terran opponents, you know Painuser said you as a terran player are not allowed to use 1-1-1 on the ladder. Hoping his response would be something along the lines of "I know Painuser is right, afterall he is the secret leader of the Terran army" or "I know, I use ladder to improve my skill, so why would I bother use such a broken build as 1-1-1, when I'm really here to improve my skills and actually get better at the game", but no, his response.... "not until Terran gets better units"
WHAT THE FUCK!?!! Have shitty ass terran players who somehow got to plat or diamond by 1-1-1 all protoss actually not know how to use the race? I mean terran is a good race, with a variety options, some would even say "imba" but this guy had the gulls to say his race is shit unless he 1-1-1? He is obviously the terrible players not his race. A player, unless at the grandmaster level, who blames their race for them losing is just a bad player, but thats a whole other situation. 1-1-1 is still broken. Now figuring this guy would 1-1-1 me, I blindly went nexus first, and when the time came around, I managed to hold it off. Not because I just countered it sooo well, and not cuz I have been so used to 1-1-1, not cuz he didnt use the raven properly... I did screw up in the late game, but he had done his damaged with the 1-1-1 even if it was one of the sloppiest of them I have seen.
A game earlier to this game, it was shattered temple, close position PvT. It was my first 1v1 of the morning and I figured I would play around with my opponenet, not thinking I would wake up to 1-1-1. When ever I see the 1-1-1 I either ask, "why do you even ladder, just for the points or to actually improve on your game?" or "why use 1-1-1 when you know its broken?". Well I asked this opponent the latter, and his response "because I want to get better"..... REALLY? That's like a protoss player saying he needs to train on his cannon rushing better because he wants to be the next CombatEX. Its like hearing retardation being spewed from the mouth of a child. I laughed and proceeded to lost terribly to his 1-1-1, now because I wasn't doing any early expand, I had not chance, no matter how sloppy it was. I told him I have been beat by fucking silver leaguers using the 1-1-1 and how it takes no skill. Well sure enough the game ended, and he was a mother fucking silver leaguer. I message him asking, Really your silver league, let me guess you are probably so bad, you just instantly quit if you play any match up besides PvT. Well almost dying from laughter, I check his match history. He wins every PvT and quits every other match up. Its FUCKING PATHEDIC!!!
So blizzard, I ask one thing, allow me to veto PvT or do something about 1-1-1, I am sick of it.
  
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
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Veto'ing matchups is a cool concept yet I think it would leave a lot of players stranded. Like who is REALLY gonna not veto ZvZ? A person looking for ZvZ might have an enormous wait time
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I'd mainly just veto PvT and than play against training partners if I wanted to try my hand against build besides 1-1-1
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Deal with it imo. It's part of the new B.net experience that you can't dodge races. It's one of my complaints too about the new B.net, but honestly just suck it up and play.
Besides, it's all part of a new game anyway.
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No. No matchup vetoes. I don't even like the idea of map vetoes.
If you want to consider yourself a (Protoss|Terran|Zerg|Random) player, you should be willing and able to take on whatever the other guy throws at you, no matter what race, strategy or map. You should learn to cope with 1-1-1, if that's what those varmints on the ladder are doing. Hell, if they're doing it all the time, just blind counter it. And if you can't beat it, just learn to enjoy losing to it, or just switch races and go 111 yourself, if it's really THAT OP.
Also, matchup vetoes would cause SERIOUS problems with skewed matchmaking. Imagine a world where all the Zs veto PvZ and all the Ps veto PvT and all the Ts veto TvZ. Essentially, the game would be nothing but mirror matches. Nobody wants that.
Starcraft is what it is. Deal with it.
Edit: Worse example, Zergs all veto ZvZ. Protoss vetoes PvZ. Terrans veto TvZ. What happens when a Zerg tries to queue up a ladder game?
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You have to defense the 1-1-1, dude. Get some training partners and take some time to go over it again and again.
No whinin', no complainin'.
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Just get better and go 1 gate robo expand or 1 gate expand (then add robo) if you scout the terran and you think he is likely to 1/1/1 ;;
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A player, unless at the grandmaster level, who blames their race for them losing is just a bad player
1-1-1 is still broken
There is some vague contradiction here.
Anyway, on topic, no that would be a fairly awful idea. The ladder would be completely skewed and those who are exceedingly good at one matchup would do better than the one who is very good with all of them.
Vetoing matchups is the same as running away from your problem; you can't be an impressive high level player with having gotten such lacking practice in one matchup. Face your problem as opposed to trying to escape it.
If people are only using one build, learn to counter it, and voilá you know what to do whenever people use it. People will cheese and all-in on ladder because it's "ranked" so they take it rather seriously. There's no way around that.
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I'm sure there were a hundred things you could have done better to hold it, at my level 1k masters Protoss, 90% of the time a simple zealot flank deals with a 1/1/1 just fine. I seriously doubt it's much harder at your level. Anyways I sure feel for you about hating a certain match ups with a passion. For me it was my TvP, it's one of the reasons I started playing Protoss more than Terran.
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Some people on ladder want to "improve their skill" by using purely macro, non-cheese builds, while some just want to win and get ladder points, regardless of what build they use. The apparent imbalance that is the 1-1-1 is a shame, but if you truly want to just become a better player, should learn to deal with it, just as every top Protoss is trying at the moment.
What doesn't kill you (IRL) only makes you stronger.
As for MU vetoes, it wouldn't be good for the diversity of the game, plus top gamers don't get to choose who they play against either.
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The only think like a match up veto I think I'd maybe be ok with but still not really like is the same kinda thing some players do in tournaments of having a different race for 1 match up so if you get a PvP and you've selected in advance that in PvP you want to be Terran, then you instead get a TvP. If two players have the same match up listed the higher ranked player is the one with the race change, or in equal games it's random who gets it.
That said there's probably a million and one(-one-one) reasons why that's a bad idea too so I think the current system is best.
The Silver leaguer skipping non TvP's amused me though.
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On October 24 2011 23:57 Iyerbeth wrote:
That said there's probably a million and one(-one-one) reasons why that's a bad idea too so I think the current system is best.
I lol'd
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The way I see it, Platinum is right about the skill level where you need to beat builds and cheeses. It's a trial by fire, but the only way to make it to diamond is to learn to beat people that aren't good at starcraft.
I was a masters protoss, and switched to zerg recently, and am currently in platinum. I used to get angry at the fact that every game is a cannon/bunker rush into dts or something like that, but I realized, that's the role of platinum leauge. The people stuck in platinum are stuck there because all they do is cheesy shit. So, you learn to beat the cheesy shit, and then you move on and don't worry about it anymore. "Vetoing" it will not help you to learn, just playing against it.
The fact that you're being beat by silver leaguers is the sign that you're doing something wrong. They are probably doing tons of stuff wrong too, but to move on from platinum you need to get to the point where you can beat someone who is just looking up a build on liquipedia.
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On October 24 2011 22:46 DJWilma wrote:
A player, unless at the grandmaster level, who blames their race for them losing is just a bad player
Oh delicious irony, you do realize the contradiction of this statement? And that you are asking to veto a matchup while complaining about other players who don't ladder to get better?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say 1/1/1 performed by silver players isn't imba.
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The player is the one using the build, you aren't forced to use it and Terran is doing great vs Protoss even if you discount this scumbag piece of shit build.
So yes, I will hate the player.
"not until Terran gets better units" wtf I should really stop playing this game, it has become a waste of my time -_-
HoTS is only going to break Protoss more, I guess I'll check back in 5 years for LoTV and see if Blizzard has stopped their meth abuse and got rid of the Terran banners flying around their HQ.
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If you lose to "1-1-1" in general it means you're terribad, period.
1-1-1 Isn't even a build actually. It can be Thors, Raven (polt timing push), Banshees (not strictly on 1 base though), a fast drop, etc.
A Sentry-heavy 4Gate (FF the defending Bunker) or blink Stalkers WILL do damage. If you suspect 1-1-1 you should go for a defensive Robo or EVEN BETTER A FE.
Players who are below GM and who blame the game are just bad. Man up and blame yourself.
On October 24 2011 22:46 DJWilma wrote:
A player, unless at the grandmaster level, who blames their race for them losing is just a bad player
OH THE HOLY IRONY.
Edit: I'll still be nice and point out that if you check the replays, Terran doesn't have a lot of stuff early game when they 1-1-1. I used to do 1-base timing pushes and get crushed by players who attacked early/who FEd. But then again I agree, 1-1-1 is terrible, basic opener should be 1Rax or 2 Rax FE.
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On October 25 2011 00:59 Kukaracha wrote:If you lose to "1-1-1" in general it means you're terribad, period. 1-1-1 Isn't even a build actually. It can be Thors, Raven (polt timing push), Banshees (not strictly on 1 base though), a fast drop, etc. A Sentry-heavy 4Gate (FF the defending Bunker) or blink Stalkers WILL do damage. If you suspect 1-1-1 you should go for a defensive Robo or EVEN BETTER A FE. Players who are below GM and who blame the game are just bad. Man up and blame yourself. Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 22:46 DJWilma wrote:
A player, unless at the grandmaster level, who blames their race for them losing is just a bad player OH THE HOLY IRONY.
Tell that to any Korean Grandmaster Protoss, mkay?
All the top Protoss have lost to 1/1/1 repeatedly at GSL level matches since release. Before, actually but w/e.
Go look at any TvP series in the last 2 months. You'll be lucky if Terran doesn't allin and even then its obviously still anyone's game.
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On October 25 2011 00:37 Geovu wrote:The player is the one using the build, you aren't forced to use it and Terran is doing great vs Protoss even if you discount this scumbag piece of shit build. So yes, I will hate the player. "not until Terran gets better units" wtf I should really stop playing this game, it has become a waste of my time -_- HoTS is only going to break Protoss more, I guess I'll check back in 5 years for LoTV and see if Blizzard has stopped their meth abuse and got rid of the Terran banners flying around their HQ.
Is all that really necessary? I mean it's not like Protoss is violently underpowered now, and it most likely won't be in the expansion. And I would say Terran isn't incredibly overpowered or "blizzard favored".
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Oh but wait a sec, didn't MC and Huk win?
Hummm...
So people complain that 90% of TvP is bioball, then complain 90% is 1-1-1.
Oops, it doesn't add up.
Also, allins work very well at high level, but Plat level micro? Let me use my maniac laugh.
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The ladder not letting you pick the maps and races you play against (like iCCup did) is a significant turn-off for players wanting to practice. I'd much rather hit up practice partners for a set of games rather than gamble I get a situation I'm interested in playing.
Yeah, you're going to have the equivalent of the guy that 10/15 rushes on Longinus all the way to B+, but was anyone really looking at the ladder for the ultimate expression of ability anyway?
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On October 25 2011 01:13 Dfgj wrote:
The ladder not letting you pick the maps and races you play against (like iCCup did) is a significant turn-off for players wanting to practice. I'd much rather hit up practice partners for a set of games rather than gamble I get a situation I'm interested in playing.
Yeah, you're going to have the equivalent of the guy that 10/15 rushes on Longinus all the way to B+, but was anyone really looking at the ladder for the ultimate expression of ability anyway?
Blizzard uses ladder to find people to put in their own tournaments, no?
Apparently ladder IS ultimate expression of ability for them.
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If you were good you would be able to hold it off, end of story.
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Well basically, its all about the fact I still havn't cracked the idea of holding off the 1-1-1, like I can hold it off, but I'm never ahead when I do it. I know I just gotta figure out a solid way to beat it, but my compaint is I'm sick of it. I'm not really saying that protoss is shit, but I just want some variety in my play, so when I do win a TvP it feels like an achievement not just the fact that I could easily stop a 1-1-1. When a terran does something other than 1-1-1 and I beat him, I feel really good about it, usualyl if I beat the 1-1-1 i think its cuz he really doesnt know how to 1-1-1 
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This is a horrible idea... 1-1-1 is not some insta win build.
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I'd just like to say how cool it is that people are quoting my thread.
Anyways, normally I would agree (I'd veto ZvP in a heartbeat), but like the others have said: it won't help you get better, and eventually the ladder would stagnate as every player would veto their most hated matchup, which is usually shared by other members of their race.
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Flank with Zealots and/or Immortal.
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You should switch to terran, you won't have to play PvT anymore.
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Quoting this as this is a very difficult response to deal with as a Terran.
To hold-off 1-base pushes, you shouldn't just try to hold it off. Either attack and crush the T before (Sentry-heavy 4Gate), or FE like the linked build suggests to. You'll be ahead.
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EPT
