I was recently in a discussion with a friend about offensive language and communication. He was under the belief that anything that offends someone should not be said in front of them While that initially sounds good, something with that doesn't resonate well with me. There are times when people are inappropriately offended because of misinformation, inappropriate stereotypes, or whatever.
Is my friend correct that at any time someone is offended, we should cease talking about that? This kind of reminds of Destiny's opinions on language. It offends people, but rather unnecessarily.
I'm from a Christian background where swearing is bad. Now I didn't say I believe that - I believe "cuss" words are words that serve their purpose and have a place in language. These words just have a bad rap for being used primarily in offensive conduct.
But to get to my point, dear teamliquid community, do you believe that we should be censoring ourselves to the point where make certain to offend no one? Or can you vocalize an instance or theory about why sometimes it shouldn't matter who we are offending?
It's all situational. Obviously there are times when offending someone is justified, and times when it is not. Mostly we avoid it just to make life easier - theory is nice and all, but functional and pragmatic approaches tend to work most of the time.
I guess I'm thinking more like with certain words. "shit" might offend someone, but could someone possibly be inappropriately offended? It's just a word used express some feeling. No different than "shoot" or "darn it."
Or other terms like "retard" or its adjective "retarded." Are these innately offensive and should never be used or can they be used outside of their direct literal meaning without actually insulting people.
I think we should censor ourselves not to offend people we don't want to offend. While that may sound a bit basic, that's really how I mean it: if you weigh your words depending on who you are talking to and the situation you are in, you can avoid offending people you don't want to offend, while keeping the possibility to be agressive with your words where you think it is appropriate.
As an example: I have a colleague who is a feminist vegetarian - two things that are really not my cup of tea. I really like her as a person nonetheless, so if she goes on a rant about one of those topics, I know meaning a lot to her, I try to keep out of a conflicting discussion not to offend her. I would not necessary do the same for other people.
I think you're going to get two groups of responses:
1) The 16-year-olds with the "words shouldn't offend" mantra, who talk about how we should all just understand that words have limited meaning and swearing and offending others is great and fine etc
2) The older people who realize that most of the time you should avoid offending people just because it's easier, though some of the time you have to because you have to.
On September 24 2011 08:38 Chef wrote: You and your friend are dumb and I hope you're both offended by this comment.
Sigh.
What? Okay, here's the real answer: Try not to offend people because they'll stop listening to what you have to say, and by the same token avoid people who are easily offended because you won't be able to have a good discussion with them.
On September 24 2011 08:38 Chef wrote: You and your friend are dumb and I hope you're both offended by this comment.
Sigh.
What? Okay, here's the real answer: Try not to offend people because they'll stop listening to what you have to say, and by the same token avoid people who are easily offended because you won't be able to have a good discussion with them.
Sorry, just in a bad mood and saw that joke a long way off. I shouldn't have been douchey about it tho.
On September 24 2011 08:38 Chef wrote: You and your friend are dumb and I hope you're both offended by this comment.
Sigh.
What? Okay, here's the real answer: Try not to offend people because they'll stop listening to what you have to say, and by the same token avoid people who are easily offended because you won't be able to have a good discussion with them.
Sorry, just in a bad mood and saw that joke a long way off. I shouldn't have been so douchey about it tho.
On September 24 2011 08:38 Chef wrote: You and your friend are dumb and I hope you're both offended by this comment.
Sigh.
What? Okay, here's the real answer: Try not to offend people because they'll stop listening to what you have to say, and by the same token avoid people who are easily offended because you won't be able to have a good discussion with them.
Sorry, just in a bad mood and saw that joke a long way off.
Which is somehow worse than the sea of temperate responses like yours that even the OP must have known he'd get because it's such a dumb question lol.
There is a difference in being offensive out of disrespect and being offensive out of your sincere belief in something.
For example if a parent gets offended because you are swearing around their small children and they have asked you not too, they are offended because you are being disrespectful.
If that same person is offended because you don't share the same political views as them, then they are at fault. As considerate adults however, we often choose to avoid certain subjects with people we know just have differing opinions from us and will continue to have them. This happens in many families where people have widely different religious or political views-- an unspoken agreement to not bring up the topics because everyone will just fight about it and no one will change their minds.
Your choice of language and topics comes down to how much you respect the person you are speaking with--and sometimes respecting them means stating a hard truth that offends them.
I've always thought to look more at the intent of words being said, instead of the interpretation, mainly because I can interpret things incorrectly, and it's more about their motive then it is anything else. I used the word "gay" to mean "stupid" before I even knew it was a word for homosexuals. Do I quell the use of that word as "stupid" around my homosexual friends? I do, only because I know how they will react to it. Ideally, I would rather they realize that I do not actually associate that usage with homosexuality, because I just learned it by hearing it in the context of "stupid."
What a person means to say is more important to me than what they actually said. I have friends to trash talk me for my muscle disease, but they only mean it in jest. What's good and what keeps me from being offended is that when my muscle disease becomes a debilitation in any activity, they will respect it and help me if I need it. So I know their true motives behind their words.
Another friend of mine I work with made this point: "The more I make fun of you, the more I like you." For many people, being "offensive" can be a sign of camaraderie or perhaps respect, of course how he makes fun of people is pretty harmless.
Of course, how does that apply to people who you do not know?
Maybe someone I am not close to or do not know, if they made fun of me for my disease or weakness, then would I be offended? Should I be offended? My answer is, I don't know.
I really do not know what they are trying to say, because I do not know them or understand why they are doing something. So I will probably just ignore it (unless it becomes a real issue, but that has never happened to me yet). I can't really act without knowledge, as everyone is a different person and uses words differently.
But, if I were going to be smart about it, I would probably say that I should avoid offending people. Social interactivity with strangers can be awkward enough, it doesn't need to have red flags of hostility, even if it isn't there you can't expect people to know that off the bat.
For comedians or writers of fiction/poetry, I think it's completely fair to be offensive, because it's part of how they bring out humor (and freedom of speech). For the most part, I don't really think comedians (or the audiences) believe that shit is all that true anyway, at least I would hope not.
Then what about people who are sensitive to words? Well, I don't really think I can expect people who have a bad history with words (associating words with depressing or traumatic experiences) to take my words so lightly with ease. At the same time, I think there are people who look for things to be offended about, to stir up drama. It goes in all sorts of ways. So when it comes to strangers, I tend to avoid being offensive because it's too risky and I could really hurt someone or cause problems that aren't worth having.
EDIT: I'd say this qualifies for a decent 500th post...
I've put some thought into this every once in awhile. The main words that trouble me aren't cuss words. The words i use that i feel offend people, and that i also try to avoid using in largely populated circumstances, are "faggot" or "gay." Even though one means a pile of sticks and the other means to be happy, respectively, it's still looked down on to say them in a derogatory manner.
I don't have anything against homosexuals at all. I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want, same as a heterosexual. Not the point but I want to make sure that's clear.
So when I use the word "faggot" or "gay" as an insult, it's usually used in the same way I would say "stupid." Ex: "Your stupid" I say "Your a faggot" or something of the sort to my friends. In my mind I'm not insulting homosexuals, because I perceive that meaning stupid, not homosexual. However, I do try to hold back these words around people that I know are homosexual or in large groups of people.
Although I don't think you should have too, I do, simply because of the zeitgeist of this time period.
Most other words I don't really mind. I, however, do feel a certain animosity towards hearing "fuck" from my parents. I think that's simply because it is associated with them fighting when I was a child. But in other cases it doesn't really bother me. I don't run around yelling "fuck" in the cafeteria and I do think people should control their language to some extent in public settings.
People can be offended at whatever they like and i'll decide from there if i want to be nice to them or i just don't care, but what really makes me mad is getting indirectly offended by something that does not refer to you. I may call my friend by racist names now and again,he is fine with this and retorts equally at my expense, but then people who overhear or are not directly involved need to start trouble. That's just making problems where there are none in my book.
WWJD???? No but seriously, Jesus offended a heap of people; not unnecessarily, but being offensive goes with the territory of being a Christian. People won't generally like what you have to say; and again don't unnecessarily go around screaming YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL AHAHAHAHA but telling people about sin generally doesn't go down too well. As for bad language (by which I mean cussing, not bad grammerz ;o), I've never come across a situation where it was necessary.
1) that with greater exchange of ideas comes greater insight and change 2) that some parts of this exchange will generate resentment and conflict
now you can deal with conflict in two ways. you can compromise, or you can escalate. if conflict always results in escalation to physical violence, then one or all parties needs to stop and approach with a mediator.
all things can be solved through communication. the problem with that is that if you really need it, and you can take it, why not?
the other problem is communicating with people who you don't value. it's very easy to dehumanize and get really angry at them. if you fall into this pithole, again, you shouldn't keep talking until you can come again at the situation with a mediator or rationality
EPT
