First, I want to apologize to qetuoadgjlxvn (I believe this is the guy's reddit account whose seat I sat in?). I didn't mean to steal your seat, or anyone's seat for that matter -- I saw two empty seats and I sat in one of them. I didn't know initially that they were reserved seats for contest winners. The whole weekend was insanely frustrating trying to find seats, there were people with spectator passes sitting in the player/vip area for almost the entire event, the security didn't do the best job of policing that area so it was like a warzone. I could have, and should have given you the seat back. For that, I really apologize. If you read this, I'd like to offer to buy you a pass for either the next MLG event, or the NASL Season 2 finals, and I'll give you whatever press and/or VIP badge I get as well, so you can be assured a nice seat as well. Please, if you, or anyone reading this knows him -- tell him to shoot me a PM.
I feel bad because I handled it poorly, and it wasn't my intention to be rude in any way. So I'd love it if you take me up on the offer so I can redeem myself. A SC2 LAN should be a fun event for everyone, and I want to make sure the next one you go to is made better in some way. I want to also make clear that my actions are in no way a measure or reflective of my teammates in Fnatic, either for Starcraft or Halo (of which we had teams in attendance at MLG Anaheim), or the NASL staff or organization.
Second, I want to respond to this thread on Reddit.
I'm really disappointed at the hyperbolic and one sided account of what happened being taken incredibly out of proportion on Reddit.
I was standing in front, and saw two empty seats. I sat down with Evoli because the seats were empty. The person who was sitting there came back and asked me to move, and I explained that it was unfair to save seats that way, especially given that it was in the front rows, which are reserved for players, vip, press, etc. Initially I didn't know that it was a reserved seat for a contest winner (there was absolutely no indication that this was the case: no sign on the seat or anything).
I absolutely didn't tell him that I was more important. He had a spectator wristband, and I pointed out that the seating was for people with player/press/etc, which I was. I never said anything about being more important, and I never laughed at him. The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
LiquidGaga, guy who made this reddit post -- I'd love to talk to you personally about this if you want to clear up any misconceptions you have about what happened, or me. If you read this, I can PM you my phone number and feel free to give me a call any time if you want to talk, or to tell me what a jerk I am!
Initially, I didn't know that the guy was a contest winner. I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
I'm sorry for everyone involved in the situation and for not relinquishing my seat. My offer is open, so again, please PM me! My intention is never to offend or wrong anyone, I always try to do what I can to help the community, and I'll keep doing that. Thanks again and I hope people read my side of the story, and I hope qetuoadgjlxvn will accept my apology.
Here's a funny video I filmed at my house with TT1 and KawaiiRice the day before MLG Anaheim, hope you all find it as funny as we did at the time
PS (I'll do the same for your friend as well, because I don't know which of your seats I sat in).
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: Second, I want to respond to this thread on Reddit.
I'm really disappointed at the hyperbolic and one sided account of what happened being taken incredibly out of proportion on Reddit.
Pretty standard for the Internet. The guy whose seat you took pretty much said it was a misunderstanding and not to make a big deal out of it, but everyone else took that as an opportunity to dogpile you anyway. Really shitty.
There are always two sides to a story and hopefully this will clear the air to let everyone know that you didn't mean to make someone unhappy over two seats. It's always easy for people to talk trash about someone when they make a mistake, but its even harder to man up and realize you made a mistake and say you are sorry. Hope everything works out for the better!
Kennigit Administrator August 02 2011 12:02. Me and LZ had to stand. Even Russel from NASL had to stand. Combined we are almost as important as Evoli and Xeris. Couple lessons 1) Can never have enough chairs. 2) Be ultra careful how you act in public especially when you are "known". Also assume that camera is on you at all times looking for candid stupid shots -_-. Seems like misunderstanding, + being tired after long weekend, chair drama
I guess that sums it up nicely; just internet drama. The apology is nice to see but i guess avoiding all of this in the future would be even better.
P.S. i think the video was as funny as it seemed to be at the time :p
I have a feeling a lot of people will choose not to see this and keep going with all the previous drama/flaming. Knowing Xeris personally, this blog reflects who I've known accurately where as all of the other Reddit crap had me very confused.
He's in it for the scene, and I know this because when none of you were showing up, it was Xeris that decided to help me first when starting SoCal LANs that we were excited to host and play in--even if 14 people showed up. And it wasn't one time, but 3 times after that when 50 people were playing. When nobody gave a rip except a few players, he organized and ran multiple clan leagues and collegiate leagues even when people bitched the entire time about nit-picky crap. Not a shred of douchery has been shelled out to me or near me from this guy and I back him.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
This is a (mostly) civilized community, which is why we love it.
Speaking to the OP. It seems like whatever stories are told by both parties it usually is something in between. It is good that you are making an effort though and you should not care about the internet crazy crowd as they will get whipped into a frenzy over anything.
On August 02 2011 12:10 ArvickHero wrote: holy crap reddit is vicious o_o
That's pretty standard for reddit. Once the gang gets moving theres no stopping it, downvoting unpopular opinions etc. Same thing happened with the guy who wrote that warpprism site. Someone rolled onto a skerick of information about it and extrapolated it was an evil company and not a dude, and in about 12 hours so much shit had been talked the dude had to make a 20 minute heartfelt video about his entire fucking life to get people to shut the fuck up.
On August 02 2011 12:26 ScroogeStarcraft wrote: I don't care how you word it, xeris, you are still a douche. That is the truth known throughout the community, and you will always be a douche.
Just another story I shouldn't have paid any attention to, with someone of higher standing getting thrown under the bus. Regardless, this was a nice post. I don't think you're hurting ESPORTS, Xeris.
Can somebody post a comment with Xeris's TL post on the reddit thread and post the comment link so we can all upvote it? The reddit thread is disgusting. I almost stopped browsing reddit just because of the starcraft subreddit.
The SC community seems so bandwagony lately. Quick to accuse, and quick to forgive. I know I've called people out myself more than once, but I've never insinuated that they were bad people because of their mistakes. There are no real villains here, and that's not just a cliche. We're all human, some perhaps more human (in public) than others. As long as lessons are learned, there's no harm done.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
edit just read the reddit thread, 90% percent of the post would earn you the banhammer on TL just for the insults, goes to show where all the PBUs end up.....
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
False.
TL restrains people from being uncivil or completely off-topic/intentionally mean-spirited. The idea of only positive posts is just the view that you can't say something in disagreement without being disrespectful and rude.
An example? I'm disagreeing with you while being level-headed.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
Nope, only the popular opinions get posted on reddit during these times. If you disagree, you get down voted into oblivion. It's a complete joke. It's not even worth posting in the thread because you just get downvoted asap, so people don't even disagree.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
The two threads are completely different though. One is an accusatory thread, and this is an apology thread.
Going back to the warpprism witchhunt, the reddit hivemind turned its heel pretty quickly and forgave jakefrink for persecuting him without full evidence.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
False.
TL restrains people from being uncivil or completely off-topic/intentionally mean-spirited. The idea of only positive posts is just the view that you can't say something in disagreement without being disrespectful and rude.
An example? I'm disagreeing with you while being level-headed.
YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR THIS ! How dare you disagree with anyone here ! Make a 500 letter apology to reduce it into a temp ban ! .. worth it ....
That's why I never even visited reddit. In every forum with a down voting system, any post that people don't agree with gets downvoted. People use the system for what it is not intended to do.
The first person to sell pitchforks with the words ESPORTS etched on the handle will make billions.
Here's some perspective on the chair situation:
I witnessed a much more heated debate between some people saving seats and security. Eventually the people saving seats starting hurling names at the security guards such as "jackass" which seemed uncalled for, and the security made the guy give up his seat by escorting him outside. The MLG seating situation was pretty bad and caused noticeable tension.
Nice to see a quick well written apology. Even though you didn't mean to do anything wrong, it seems this is always the best response anyone can have to a situation like this. It just proves all the accusations were unfounded, as opposed to an angry response that will make anyone look like an ass.
Hope the reddit rage blows over quickly! ^_^
(The video was hilarious. You know they write these things called scripts for commercials? )
I dunno, the initial stuff is totally understandable, but I assume the guy said something like: "hey I'm a contest winner and these seats are reserved for us"
On August 02 2011 12:06 shindigs wrote: Dude wtf Xeris is the most d of bags. He knocked me out of the first UCI LAN using a scout, MANNER UP YO.
after reading this i dont think i can support xeris anymore. i mean... you back a guy up for some time as your head manager and then he goes does this? just not classy. xeris is dead to me.
So now this topic becomes into a bash reddit topic? Oh you guys...
(The rest is directed towards OP)
Hyperbole? Sure maybe in the comments but the opening post seems factual to me. You may forgive it now, but you said yourself you behaved incorrectly because of frustration.
In other words you admitted guilt.
Guess what, we all get frustrated, doesn't exempt you from the rules. Its fine to apologize for acting out of line, but dont criticize reddit or say you're disappointed in hyperbole.
1/4th of your post was an apology, 1/2 of it was you trying to redeem yourself, justify your actions and make underhanded attacks. The rest of the post was comic relief.
If you're gonna apologize, man up an apologize. Don't make subtle remarks like
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
On August 02 2011 12:48 Oracle wrote: So now this topic becomes into a bash reddit topic? Oh you guys...
(The rest is directed towards OP)
Hyperbole? Sure maybe in the comments but the opening post seems factual to me. You may forgive it now, but you said yourself you behaved incorrectly because of frustration.
In other words you admitted guilt.
Guess what, we all get frustrated, doesn't exempt you from the rules. Its fine to apologize for acting out of line, but dont criticize reddit or say you're disappointed in hyperbole.
1/4th of your post was an apology, 1/2 of it was you trying to redeem yourself, justify your actions and make underhanded attacks. The rest of the post was comic relief.
If you're gonna apologize, man up an apologize. Don't make subtle remarks like
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Umm, when he posts in the thread with this
Also, I hope the Reddit community understands. You guys are great and show how big SC2 is <3 everyone.
and gets immediately downvoted to -21...
The reply is go fuck yourself, fuckface. And that gets upvotes...
Yeah going to something like that makes everyone hate everyone who has a seat, and you having "years of hard work" doesn't give anyone the right to just take the seats. If I were the contest winner, I would have kicked you in the ball right then. This isnt a troll post, he won those seats and they were his to help him enjoy the event.
I think it's great that you apologized but in this case I am more inclined to believe that what is said to have happened in the reddit thread is what actually happened. Regardless thank-you for apologizing you didn't have to do it.
On August 02 2011 12:56 NobledBlood wrote: Yeah going to something like that makes everyone hate everyone who has a seat, and you having "years of hard work" doesn't give anyone the right to just take the seats. If I were the contest winner, I would have kicked you in the ball right then. This isnt a troll post, he won those seats and they were his to help him enjoy the event.
He didn't say to the contest's winner, "I earned this through years of hard work". That's a misunderstanding created from the backlash.
Anyways, if I was contest winner, I would have made it damn clear that those were my seats and how I earned them. The whole situation just sounds like a bunch of agitated people not being able to communicate with each other.
On August 02 2011 12:48 Oracle wrote: So now this topic becomes into a bash reddit topic? Oh you guys...
(The rest is directed towards OP)
Hyperbole? Sure maybe in the comments but the opening post seems factual to me. You may forgive it now, but you said yourself you behaved incorrectly because of frustration.
In other words you admitted guilt.
Guess what, we all get frustrated, doesn't exempt you from the rules. Its fine to apologize for acting out of line, but dont criticize reddit or say you're disappointed in hyperbole.
1/4th of your post was an apology, 1/2 of it was you trying to redeem yourself, justify your actions and make underhanded attacks. The rest of the post was comic relief.
If you're gonna apologize, man up an apologize. Don't make subtle remarks like
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Umm, when he posts in the thread with this
Also, I hope the Reddit community understands. You guys are great and show how big SC2 is <3 everyone.
and gets immediately downvoted to -21...
The reply is go fuck yourself, fuckface. And that gets upvotes...
How can you not be disappointed?
I thought this was an apology thread? Not some PR spin.
Look, I'm not part of the 'reddit' community or whatever, and am certainly not advocating for them.
I read the OP and flags of every PR spin in the book went off. Shifting blame, martyrdom, victimizing himself, subtle attacks to the messenger (lol wtf?). Just his way of doing damage control.
Like I said, this is an apology thread in which only 1/4 of it was an actual apology.
On August 02 2011 12:48 Oracle wrote: So now this topic becomes into a bash reddit topic? Oh you guys...
(The rest is directed towards OP)
Hyperbole? Sure maybe in the comments but the opening post seems factual to me. You may forgive it now, but you said yourself you behaved incorrectly because of frustration.
In other words you admitted guilt.
Guess what, we all get frustrated, doesn't exempt you from the rules. Its fine to apologize for acting out of line, but dont criticize reddit or say you're disappointed in hyperbole.
1/4th of your post was an apology, 1/2 of it was you trying to redeem yourself, justify your actions and make underhanded attacks. The rest of the post was comic relief.
If you're gonna apologize, man up an apologize. Don't make subtle remarks like
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Umm, when he posts in the thread with this
Also, I hope the Reddit community understands. You guys are great and show how big SC2 is <3 everyone.
and gets immediately downvoted to -21...
The reply is go fuck yourself, fuckface. And that gets upvotes...
How can you not be disappointed?
I thought this was an apology thread? Not some PR spin.
Look, I'm not part of the 'reddit' community or whatever, and am certainly not advocating for them.
I read the OP and flags of every PR spin in the book went off. Shifting blame, martyrdom, victimizing himself. Just his way of doing damage control.
Like I said, this is an apology thread in which only 1/4 of it was an actual apology.
You mean you've only interpreted 1/4 of it as an apology.
On August 02 2011 12:48 Oracle wrote: So now this topic becomes into a bash reddit topic? Oh you guys...
(The rest is directed towards OP)
Hyperbole? Sure maybe in the comments but the opening post seems factual to me. You may forgive it now, but you said yourself you behaved incorrectly because of frustration.
In other words you admitted guilt.
Guess what, we all get frustrated, doesn't exempt you from the rules. Its fine to apologize for acting out of line, but dont criticize reddit or say you're disappointed in hyperbole.
1/4th of your post was an apology, 1/2 of it was you trying to redeem yourself, justify your actions and make underhanded attacks. The rest of the post was comic relief.
If you're gonna apologize, man up an apologize. Don't make subtle remarks like
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Umm, when he posts in the thread with this
Also, I hope the Reddit community understands. You guys are great and show how big SC2 is <3 everyone.
and gets immediately downvoted to -21...
The reply is go fuck yourself, fuckface. And that gets upvotes...
How can you not be disappointed?
I thought this was an apology thread? Not some PR spin.
Look, I'm not part of the 'reddit' community or whatever, and am certainly not advocating for them.
I read the OP and flags of every PR spin in the book went off. Shifting blame, martyrdom, victimizing himself, subtle attacks to the messenger (lol wtf?). Just his way of doing damage control.
Like I said, this is an apology thread in which only 1/4 of it was an actual apology.
The First part is apologizing, the second part is explaining his side of the story. This is completely understandable and expected in this post. People wanted to hear his side of the story.
I like Reddit :3 They're not mean-spirited or intentionally hurtful (for the most part), they're just more skeptical and perhaps a bit of a comedic cynic?
I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I can't believe I didn't see my favorite player sitting there, you must have been so close that I could have touched you or something :-)
I don't want to start a flame war, but he did talk at length with Xeris, and definitely explained he won a contest to get the seats. Especially after going to get the MLG staff member.
On August 02 2011 13:06 Phaded wrote: Its interesting that Xeris' "apology" makes no mention of the bags that were previously on the seats.
Agreed, but that's really only all I can fault him for. Reading KawaiiRice's post just affirmed the situation I pictured.
There is an onus on whoever is in charge of the contest to make the winnings as official as possible. Not having specific tags/badges/etc. was a big part of the problem. It's also strange how the MLG staff wasn't made aware of the VIP seat winners. Not very well planned.
People heard you having explained to you that the people sitting there had won them in a contest, yet you didn't move. The only part where you actually appear to be willing to give up the seats is where you demand _other seats_. 4 or 5 different parties have come forward to say they heard and saw the whole thing and they all tell the same story.
Maybe you should think a bit harder about how you do things at an event where you are clearly representing major players in the scene. After all, the only reason you were allowed to do this shit is _because_ you represent them.
Sadly, I can't really wish for you to fail outright, because that'd probably mean Fnatic's SC2 team fails with you somehow, but I'd sure as hell like to see you disappear.
The only reason you may see TL as more manner is because it is heavily moderated, imo. Otherwise, people will use that freedom to say whatever that's on their mind without thinking twice.
"I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz" -a fnatic player
you realize there are many, many eye-witness acounts of this happening? just diggin' that hole deeper
So people did say he explained he won those seats in a contest, so it looks like kawaiirice is covering for xeris too, which isn't surprising since he's part of fnatic too. However, disappointing kawaiirice would lie like that to cover for xeris.
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I guess this shouldn't surprise me after reading that you weren't capable of ordering your own meal the first time you attended an MLG with your team..
Logically, the first step would have been to not remove the persons belongings and take their seats. After that, when you are told that you have taken a seat that belongs to someone else, that had made an attempt to save it (maybe they needed to use the restroom, etc), you don't interpret anything, its straight forward and clear: Oh these are your seats? We're sorry. If you want to be skeptical and dickish not believing their VIP status, you could find some way of trying to inquire if they have VIP passes without them wanting to spit on your neck for thinking they had to answer to you.
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
A decent human being wouldnt touch other people's property, I am pretty sure you guys "forgot" to mention that xeris moved that guys stuff off the chair, or did it just fall of by itself? Tell that guy who is a douche all the time, xeris, to learn some manners.
I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?" - a fnatic player
or you could stop this pathetic damage control stunt, and xeris could take credit for everything he did, instead of a passive aggressive/half true "apology"
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I can't believe I didn't see my favorite player sitting there, you must have been so close that I could have touched you or something :-)
I don't want to start a flame war, but he did talk at length with Xeris, and definitely explained he won a contest to get the seats. Especially after going to get the MLG staff member.
Hmm I assume that was after I left. I kept my head down and left after a game because I was so depressed. Well then duran u fail gg tt
edit: holy crap i delay my post button by 5 minutes and the flames just keep coming lol
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I can't believe I didn't see my favorite player sitting there, you must have been so close that I could have touched you or something :-)
I don't want to start a flame war, but he did talk at length with Xeris, and definitely explained he won a contest to get the seats. Especially after going to get the MLG staff member.
Hmm I assume that was after I left. I kept my head down and left after a game because I was so depressed. Well then duran u fail gg tt
edit: holy crap i delay my post button by 5 minutes and the flames just keep coming lol
Don't worry, xeris is just dragging you down the hole with him. I like how once you were caught in your lie, it was oh it must have been after I left, lol. Keep digging!
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I can't believe I didn't see my favorite player sitting there, you must have been so close that I could have touched you or something :-)
I don't want to start a flame war, but he did talk at length with Xeris, and definitely explained he won a contest to get the seats. Especially after going to get the MLG staff member.
Hmm I assume that was after I left. I kept my head down and left after a game because I was so depressed. Well then duran u fail gg tt
edit: holy crap i delay my post button by 5 minutes and the flames just keep coming lol
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
I can't believe I didn't see my favorite player sitting there, you must have been so close that I could have touched you or something :-)
I don't want to start a flame war, but he did talk at length with Xeris, and definitely explained he won a contest to get the seats. Especially after going to get the MLG staff member.
Hmm I assume that was after I left. I kept my head down and left after a game because I was so depressed. Well then duran u fail gg tt
edit: holy crap i delay my post button by 5 minutes and the flames just keep coming lol
Don't worry, xeris is just dragging you down the hole with him. I like how once you were caught in your lie, it was oh it must have been after I left, lol. Keep digging!
i didn't lie? that was what he said the first time at least
On August 02 2011 13:12 GoNZooo wrote: People heard you having explained to you that the people sitting there had won them in a contest, yet you didn't move. The only part where you actually appear to be willing to give up the seats is where you demand _other seats_. 4 or 5 different parties have come forward to say they heard and saw the whole thing and they all tell the same story.
Maybe you should think a bit harder about how you do things at an event where you are clearly representing major players in the scene. After all, the only reason you were allowed to do this shit is _because_ you represent them.
Sadly, I can't really wish for you to fail outright, because that'd probably mean Fnatic's SC2 team fails with you somehow, but I'd sure as hell like to see you disappear.
First move the guys shit then refuse him his seat back after he tells you he won a contest?
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I'm not one take sides in an internet dispute of words, but you're making it difficult for an objective person to give you any credence with that passive aggressive, tough guy act.
After reading all I can, I have to say that I believe Xeris's story; although he may or may not be sort of a dick, I think he has it right and this has been blown massively out of proportion...
Reddit is insanely vicious, though...I'm glad this is a community in which the moderators can and will take immediate actions against mindless raging and one-sided bashing.
I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
So the proper response to believing him to be a douche is.... have a gigantic circle jerk talking about how much of a douche he is while you all work yourself into a frenzy over a douche?
That's some internet thinking.
I don't like anybody involved in this story ranging from the fan who won the context, gaga, or xeris. Everybody sucks, there is no winner, gg, no re. That's life.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
I don't like anybody involved in this story ranging from the fan who won the context, gaga, or xeris. Everybody sucks, there is no winner, gg, no re. That's life.
That's a cynical view on life. The contest winners did nothing wrong and are blameless. Sometimes things are black and white and one person is clearly in the wrong such as this case. You can't just end all arguments saying they're both wrong, gg, that's life as the real world doesn't work that way.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
I don't like anybody involved in this story ranging from the fan who won the context, gaga, or xeris. Everybody sucks, there is no winner, gg, no re. That's life.
That's a cynical view on life. The contest winners did nothing wrong and are blameless. Sometimes things are black and white and one person is clearly in the wrong such as this case. You can't just end all arguments saying they're both wrong, gg, that's life as the real world doesn't work that way.
The real world does work that way, as is evidence by this event occurring in real life.
Even David after the dentist could have concluded that this was real life.
I can guarantee that the people who won the contest neither articulated their points properly or approached the subject properly to get their point across without further escalating a problem, rather than solving it.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
So the proper response to believing him to be a douche is.... have a gigantic circle jerk talking about how much of a douche he is while you all work yourself into a frenzy over a douche?
That's some internet thinking.
I don't like anybody involved in this story ranging from the fan who won the context, gaga, or xeris. Everybody sucks, there is no winner, gg, no re. That's life.
That sounds like a really good system of moral arbitration. I hope you apply that to all aspects of your life and not just internet forums.
There are witnesses at MLG Anaheim that can corroborate the story posted on reddit. This doesn't change your actions that was of poor taste for example like moving the bags off the seats.
On August 02 2011 13:54 Klogon wrote: Can we still lynch somebody?
##Vote: Klogon
Did someone say lynch? Come play forum mafia at TL Mafia. Have fun, lynch scum. What a hoot!
On August 02 2011 13:57 Rekrul wrote: Lots of stealing in this jungle of a world we call E-SPORTS.
First stealing girlfriends...
Then stealing players...
Now stealing seats...
Is this what we've become? A bunch of thieves? Come on E-SPORTS people, this is a team effort!
It just keeps getting worse and worse. Somewhere, somehow, things will go too far. =O
EDIT:
On August 02 2011 14:00 Torte de Lini wrote: MLG should have been a drive-thru. Your seat is your mother-fucking car.
But if I get out of my car at a drive-thru, it doesn't give someone the right to hop in and drive around, does it? O.o
I think it's going to come down to who's words people want to trust, Xeris and KR, along with a few others (maybe), against the people on Reddit. Like others, I think this completely comes down to a failure in communications and an inability to get a point across clearly, from all sides.
On August 02 2011 13:54 Klogon wrote: Can we still lynch somebody?
I'm appalled at the fact that you would use the word lynch in the context of something as trivial as taking someone's seat. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your parents had been publicly murdered in cold blood without repercussion because of the color of their skin I doubt you would so casually and callously toss out such an offensive term.
Incontrol needs to have a long talk with you about the power of language. If this doesn't happen, I demand that Nazgul remove your administrative powers, ban you from Teamliquid, and force you to disgorge the thousands of dollars you have made working for TL.net.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
On August 02 2011 13:47 Canucklehead wrote: I don't think this is being blown out of proportion. This is one reddit witch hunt I approve of because xeris isn't a well liked member in the community and there are numerous stories out there about him not being a mannered guy.
Not to mention how he continiually acts on TL.
Damn I thought your name was lynchforthesky, did a bit of a double take. Would have been too good to be true.
On August 02 2011 13:54 Klogon wrote: Can we still lynch somebody?
I'm appalled at the fact that you would use the word lynch in the context of something as trivial as taking someone's seat. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your parents had been publicly murdered in cold blood without repercussion because of the color of their skin I doubt you would so casually and callously toss out such an offensive term.
Incontrol needs to have a long talk with you about the power of language. If this doesn't happen, I demand that Nazgul remove your administrative powers, ban you from Teamliquid, and force you to disgorge the thousands of dollars you have made working for TL.net.
You can take everything, but not my ESPORTS powers!
And I won the money too... through years of hard work. It's like, you don't even know who I am!
btw, just thought I'd mention that the word isn't racial by definition. lynch –verb (used with object) to put to death, especially by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lynch
Yeah okay okay according to Xeris it was all misunderstanding. However reading in the reddit thread respectable casters and other members of the community keep coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they have had similar bad experiences with xeris. This makes me less inclined to believe him, smells like PR control to me.
TL may be nicer and more respectful, and you guys can be elitist about it all you want and pretend reddit doesn't matter. But reddit is where you see what people really think, because they can speak their mind without fear of moderation.
On August 02 2011 14:15 Disquiet wrote: Yeah okay okay according to Xeris it was all misunderstanding. However reading in the reddit thread respectable casters and other members of the community keep coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they have had similar bad experiences with xeris. This makes me less inclined to believe him, smells like PR control to me.
TL may be nicer and more respectful, and you guys can be elitist about it all you want and pretend reddit doesn't matter. But reddit is where you see what people really think, because they can speak their mind without fear of moderation.
People can speak their mind here, you just have to be respectful. I don't see what's wrong with that. I'd rather have people logically explain their points or calmly discuss things, than have them flame and swear their heads off. No one's going to ban you because you don't like Xeris and express that opinion, so long as you aren't an asshole about it.
On August 02 2011 14:15 Disquiet wrote: Yeah okay okay according to Xeris it was all misunderstanding. However reading in the reddit thread respectable casters and other members of the community keep coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they have had similar bad experiences with xeris. This makes me less inclined to believe him, smells like PR control to me.
TL may be nicer and more respectful, and you guys can be elitist about it all you want and pretend reddit doesn't matter. But reddit is where you see what people really think, because they can speak their mind without fear of moderation.
The problem with reddit is that during these scenarios, you only see the popular opinion. Anyone who disagrees is immediately downvoted. This discourages people from disagreeing, so people just stop trying. Reddit gives you a great way to see the popular opinions, but is terrible at actually showing you the minority opinions.
Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
I'd like to see the reddit thread for when IdrA cuts someone off in his new shiny Veyron.
Yeah I agree with the seats, Jesus Christ. I had a press pass, but I had to stand up even though spectators had taken the seats, I didn't want any trouble so I just watched the games standing up.
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
I'd like to see the reddit thread for when IdrA cuts someone off in his new shiny Veyron.
nah idra could never get hate for being a dick, people love him too much and its almost expected. There might be a thread but it would probably be something like "Idra is such a badass" I don't understand it, I don't like him but everyone else seems to love him no matter how arrogant he acts.
On August 02 2011 14:15 Disquiet wrote: Yeah okay okay according to Xeris it was all misunderstanding. However reading in the reddit thread respectable casters and other members of the community keep coming out of the woodwork to talk about how they have had similar bad experiences with xeris. This makes me less inclined to believe him, smells like PR control to me.
TL may be nicer and more respectful, and you guys can be elitist about it all you want and pretend reddit doesn't matter. But reddit is where you see what people really think, because they can speak their mind without fear of moderation.
People can speak their mind here, you just have to be respectful. I don't see what's wrong with that. I'd rather have people logically explain their points or calmly discuss things, than have them flame and swear their heads off. No one's going to ban you because you don't like Xeris and express that opinion, so long as you aren't an asshole about it.
You can read the unpopular opinions too. I do it all the time.
On August 02 2011 14:30 katzby wrote: Yeah I agree with the seats, Jesus Christ. I had a press pass, but I had to stand up even though spectators had taken the seats, I didn't want any trouble so I just watched the games standing up.
I just think you lacked the balls to confront a ravenous seat stealing e-sports fan!
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
What? Your apology was fine, but you did not need to include this. Your coming off as 2 sided here, your still being arrogant while saying this, yet you are willing to give him MLG tickets for the next event.
I honestly don't even know who you are, but from what ive read, its not good. Just a suggestion, I would really watch what you say because you seem to speak without thinking and that's losing you more respect than anything.
but I do commend you for making this apology directly to him.
On August 02 2011 14:38 lastprobeALIVE wrote: i love the sarcasm, "stealing a chair succcccch a big deal." it's not just about the fuckin seats, it's about how he acted.
I never go to reddit or bandwagon or give a shit but honestly this thing has made me sick to my stomach.
ROFLMAO! I was waiting for something to say "IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE CHAIR!"
Xeris, taking down one troll at a time, people need to stop bashing respected members of the community just because one guy presents his case before another.
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
Is it a member of this community flipping me the bird while passing me on the shoulder? While they are representing two companies who solicit my money, and the money of this community, almost exclusively? That is a more accurate analogy. Given those caveats, then yes I think that it is appropriate to discuss those events here on Team Liquid
There exists a subset of people who were in the Brood War foreigner scene that believe it is there God given right to monetize StarCraft 2 ahead of anyone else. It's this same sense of entitlement that reared it's ugly head over a fucking seat at MLG. I'm sure the incident was compounded by the frustrating lack of seating at the event. That doesn't discount the fact that Xeris felt, and said, that he was owed that seat because of all the work that he had put into the community.
It's the same sense of entitlement that is ruining NASL. "How dare someone question the product we put out. We put many years of blood, sweat and tears into Brood War! We deserve nothing but praise!" Interestingly, Xeris is involved in/with both the NASL and the above mentioned incident.
I think had Xeris just said, "Hey, I was having a shitty day. I said somethings that I regret and I apologize." the reaction from Reddit would have been much different. Unfortunately for him, he went on a manic, passive-aggressive rant.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
What? Your apology was fine, but you did not need to include this. Your coming off as 2 sided here, your still being arrogant while saying this, yet you are willing to give him MLG tickets for the next event.
I honestly don't even know who you are, but from what ive read, its not good. Just a suggestion, I would really watch what you say because you seem to speak without thinking and that's losing you more respect than anything.
lol. That was directed at another person - the one who sat behind Xeris/VIP seat winner.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
What? Your apology was fine, but you did not need to include this. Your coming off as 2 sided here, your still being arrogant while saying this, yet you are willing to give him MLG tickets for the next event.
The guy who wrote the Reddit post is not the guy whose seat was taken. The Reddit post author was one of the ones sitting behind him, whom he referred to in the OP.
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
Is it a member of this community flipping me the bird while passing me on the shoulder? While they are representing two companies who solicit my money, and the money of this community, almost exclusively? That is a more accurate analogy. Given those caveats, then yes I think that it is appropriate to discuss those events here on Team Liquid
There exists a subset of people who were in the Brood War foreigner scene that believe it is there God given right to monetize StarCraft 2 ahead of anyone else. It's this same sense of entitlement that reared it's ugly head over a fucking seat at MLG. I'm sure the incident was compounded by the frustrating lack of seating at the event. That doesn't discount the fact that Xeris felt, and said, that he was owed that seat because of all the work that he had put into the community.
It's the same sense of entitlement that is ruining NASL. "How dare someone question the product we put out. We put many years of blood, sweat and tears into Brood War! We deserve nothing but praise!" Interestingly, Xeris is involved in/with both the NASL and the above mentioned incident.
I think had Xeris just said, "Hey, I was having a shitty day. I said somethings that I regret and I apologize." the reaction from Reddit would have been much different. Unfortunately for him, he went on a manic, passive-aggressive rant.
Milkis hit me over the head with his rolled up program at MLG Anaheim. What an asshole.
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
Is it a member of this community flipping me the bird while passing me on the shoulder? While they are representing two companies who solicit my money, and the money of this community, almost exclusively? That is a more accurate analogy. Given those caveats, then yes I think that it is appropriate to discuss those events here on Team Liquid
There exists a subset of people who were in the Brood War foreigner scene that believe it is there God given right to monetize StarCraft 2 ahead of anyone else. It's this same sense of entitlement that reared it's ugly head over a fucking seat at MLG. I'm sure the incident was compounded by the frustrating lack of seating at the event. That doesn't discount the fact that Xeris felt, and said, that he was owed that seat because of all the work that he had put into the community.
It's the same sense of entitlement that is ruining NASL. "How dare someone question the product we put out. We put many years of blood, sweat and tears into Brood War! We deserve nothing but praise!" Interestingly, Xeris is involved in/with both the NASL and the above mentioned incident.
I think had Xeris just said, "Hey, I was having a shitty day. I said somethings that I regret and I apologize." the reaction from Reddit would have been much different. Unfortunately for him, he went on a manic, passive-aggressive rant.
Milkis hit me over the head with his rolled up program at MLG Anaheim. What an asshole.
I would have defended you, but someone caused me to be unable to attend. They wear douchey aviators and won't let me make out with their girlfriend.
The Reddit thread is nonsense blasphemy, but the guy who has a REASON to twist the story is wholeheartedly believed? What, did people think he was going to come on here and bash the kid who tried to get his seat back? Let's not be so naive please.
Not to say that Xeris meant to offended anyone or whatever, but to claim there are two sides to every story and then push the negative one aside as nothing more than e-fame /b/-inspired hate is a bit hypocritical.
The guy who RE-POSTED, the story did it because he was legitimately bothered by the behavior he saw and read about. It wasn't for some gain outside of that.
At the end of the day it's likely a combination of some bad decision making and a lot of miscommunication that made it a bigger deal than necessary. But it bothers me to at least not place some accountability on people's actions and to give them a free pass because they posted a story that paints themselves as a fun going jokester.
It's not about being important or VIP, it's about being respectful. Yeah MLG was crowed, it was hard to find a seat, lots of confusion (when everything is calm it's very easy to be a nice fella.) and that was exactly why everyone should be even more respectful and careful to no act act like a douche bag, and even more careful if you consider yourself someone "important". Even if the guys didn't have any right to be seated on the front seats, calling them nobodies and throwing them out was not something a man would do. We see a man's worth when things are heated up and not when he is home, at his pretty computer writing an apology so he can look good to the community and fans, and then everyone is Ok again and make jokes about it. But yeah, everything is Ok. Not much of a big thing, no harm done, expect for the guys who lost their seats. Didn't mean to write a big post, all I really wanted to say is if that guy had stolen MY seat I'd simply say Come at me bro! and things would get nasty. Those guys were nice peaceful dudes, but you never know, maybe the next guy you try to screw up is some fucked up dude. Be carfeul.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
taking a cheap shot like that during an "apology" is a d-bag move.
On August 02 2011 14:22 Jibba wrote: Drama is fun, but this is one of the least important bits of drama ever and is really just a continuation of the bandwagon NASL hate. It probably was a dick move. So what? Move on. Are we going to see a thread every time someone cuts you off on the road, or drives on the shoulder during a traffic jam?
Is it a member of this community flipping me the bird while passing me on the shoulder? While they are representing two companies who solicit my money, and the money of this community, almost exclusively? That is a more accurate analogy. Given those caveats, then yes I think that it is appropriate to discuss those events here on Team Liquid
There exists a subset of people who were in the Brood War foreigner scene that believe it is there God given right to monetize StarCraft 2 ahead of anyone else. It's this same sense of entitlement that reared it's ugly head over a fucking seat at MLG. I'm sure the incident was compounded by the frustrating lack of seating at the event. That doesn't discount the fact that Xeris felt, and said, that he was owed that seat because of all the work that he had put into the community.
It's the same sense of entitlement that is ruining NASL. "How dare someone question the product we put out. We put many years of blood, sweat and tears into Brood War! We deserve nothing but praise!" Interestingly, Xeris is involved in/with both the NASL and the above mentioned incident.
I think had Xeris just said, "Hey, I was having a shitty day. I said somethings that I regret and I apologize." the reaction from Reddit would have been much different. Unfortunately for him, he went on a manic, passive-aggressive rant.
Milkis hit me over the head with his rolled up program at MLG Anaheim. What an asshole.
Xeris legacy will forever be tainted now as the MLG Anaheim chair stealer! Years and years of dedication and hardwork for the sc community goes up in smoke in a single heartless act of selfish elitistness!
LOL
my how far we've come. I think back to wcg 2008 when there were 5 people watching 8 players play in the biggest broodwar lan in the usa (wcg usa finals)
edit; all joking aside I really do feel kind of bad about this, I hope nobody gets the wrong impression of Xeris, someone who's dedicated an insane amount of work into helping grow and provide for the community for well over half a decade now, probably the best tournament organizer you'd find anywhere too. He's done SO much work...CSL/NASL/running light/managing fnatic and everything else...One misunderstanding during a very long and tiring weekend shouldn't change peoples opinions of Duran, we literally wouldn't have had NASL without him.
The whole reason people post on reddit is because the censorship here doesn't allow for different opinions. Which is fine. If someone had complained here about Xeris stealing seats well...we all know how that would end.
You guys are such vaginas. He makes a little apology and everyone rides his dick....
Yeah its only seats but these guys won them as a contest and he took that away from them. I would be pissed as hell, god I hate fanboys
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
God this guy is a joke. I still think Xeris comes off like a douchebag and personally I can care less what you've done for the community or who you are. If you act like a dick then thats all you are to me. I've met a couple of inflated egos already in this scene and I feel the same way about them all.
On August 02 2011 14:30 katzby wrote: Yeah I agree with the seats, Jesus Christ. I had a press pass, but I had to stand up even though spectators had taken the seats, I didn't want any trouble so I just watched the games standing up.
I just think you lacked the balls to confront a ravenous seat stealing e-sports fan!
Girls usually don't have balls last time I checked ^_^
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
taking a cheap shot like that during an "apology" is a d-bag move.
Yeah. It just ruins the apology. Like. It doesnt feel genuine at all.
On August 02 2011 15:05 Necrosjef_ wrote: The whole reason people post on reddit is because the censorship here doesn't allow for different opinions. Which is fine. If someone had complained here about Xeris stealing seats well...we all know how that would end.
I think we all know how it would end if someone complained on TL.
On August 02 2011 14:30 katzby wrote: Yeah I agree with the seats, Jesus Christ. I had a press pass, but I had to stand up even though spectators had taken the seats, I didn't want any trouble so I just watched the games standing up.
I just think you lacked the balls to confront a ravenous seat stealing e-sports fan!
Girls usually don't have balls last time I checked ^_^
All these...girls...lurking around in our E-SPORTS world now leaving their boyfriends at home sneaking around at events hoping to get some real progamer manhood like TLO to sign their boobs. It's a jungle out there.
Seems like MLG should have given him a special pass to wear since he was a winner of a contest but gotta say if Xeris really did move his stuff and was told he was a contest winner than that was wrong. Don't see why the apology and promises of juicy gifts for future events cant fix everything though, I like free things I'd be down if I was him! lol
On August 02 2011 15:21 Klogon wrote: I want to take a bunch of chairs with "Reserved for ESPORTS" and take them to the front row of the next MLG and leave them unoccupied.
How about you rent an elephant and give it a giant esports headband and then bring it up and sit it in front of the crowd so that the front rows can't see anything
On August 02 2011 13:54 Klogon wrote: Can we still lynch somebody?
I'm appalled at the fact that you would use the word lynch in the context of something as trivial as taking someone's seat. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your parents had been publicly murdered in cold blood without repercussion because of the color of their skin I doubt you would so casually and callously toss out such an offensive term.
Incontrol needs to have a long talk with you about the power of language. If this doesn't happen, I demand that Nazgul remove your administrative powers, ban you from Teamliquid, and force you to disgorge the thousands of dollars you have made working for TL.net.
why would u get so defensive for no reason. unless you and xeris are both MAFIA. god im so good
On August 02 2011 15:21 Klogon wrote: I want to take a bunch of chairs with "Reserved for ESPORTS" and take them to the front row of the next MLG and leave them unoccupied.
How about you rent an elephant and give it a giant esports headband and then bring it up and sit it in front of the crowd so that the front rows can't see anything
If this would happend It would be the most EPIC thing that has ever happend in any TOURNAMENT
Nice attempt at saving face knowing that your reputation was on the line. Too bad you are still a douchebag, if this apology is truly sincere you either would have posted this before the shitstorm happened or you would have given them the seats in the first place. The fact is, you acted like a total asshole and whatever shit you said in this apology has no meaning.
I hate assholes who do douchy things then think they can get away with it by "apologizing".
On August 02 2011 14:30 katzby wrote: Yeah I agree with the seats, Jesus Christ. I had a press pass, but I had to stand up even though spectators had taken the seats, I didn't want any trouble so I just watched the games standing up.
I just think you lacked the balls to confront a ravenous seat stealing e-sports fan!
On August 02 2011 15:28 theDragoon wrote: Nice attempt at saving face knowing that your reputation was on the line. Too bad you are still a douchebag, if this apology is truly sincere you either would have posted this before the shitstorm happened or you would have given them the seats in the first place. The fact is, you acted like a total asshole and whatever shit you said in this apology has no meaning.
I hate assholes who do douchy things then think they can get away with it by "apologizing".
well coming through with the apology and hooking those guys up is a huge step in making it sincere
Reddit has become a bastion of hate lately, and this is no exception.
I mean, yes, stealing someone seat is bad, but to take it this far, and by someone who didn't have any knowledge prior to the person who made a joke about Sundance stealing his seat..
Gah, they have to sharpen their pitchforks over something, right?
Hi, I worked at MLG Anaheim as a VIP Check-in if you want proof I can pull an email and some photos. As far as Dr. Pepper Twitter contest goes, the winners of that contest only won a FREE Spectator's entrance to the event (two to be exact per winner). This is the same pass that everyone else paid 25$ for at entry. The Pass did not include VIP seating in the front three rows. Another regulation in effect was seats could NOT be saved by placing a bag or item on the seat. If the guards had the time and manpower to regulate it better they would have. Considering Xeris is a notable person of the Starcraft 2 scene and considered a pro gamer, he had all rights to take those two seats.
To be honest 2/3 of the VIP seating was being taken by regular spectators and could have easily been kicked off. Do not try to bad PR Xeris for something so trivial.
On August 02 2011 15:42 [uci] Fizik wrote: Hi, I worked at MLG Anaheim as a VIP Check-in if you want proof I can pull an email and some photos. As far as Dr. Pepper Twitter contest goes, the winners of that contest only won a FREE Spectator's entrance to the event (two to be exact per winner). This is the same pass that everyone else paid 25$ for at entry. The Pass did not include VIP seating in the front three rows. Another regulation in effect was seats could NOT be saved by placing a bag or item on the seat. If the guards had the time and manpower to regulate it better they would have. Considering Xeris is a notable person of the Starcraft 2 scene and considered a pro gamer, he had all rights to take those two seats.
To be honest 2/3 of the VIP seating was being taken by regular spectators and could have easily been kicked off. Do not try to bad PR Xeris for something so trivial.
This dude is misinformed. (As was I on a different front)
From the dude whose seat was stolen's post: ____________________________________________________________________________ The OP's thread is not entirely accurate (we weren't the people who won the Dr. Pepper contest; we won a separate contest, although those two people sat next to the left of us and also got their seats taken)
There was an additional contest where you could send a text to some number and win 2 seats in the front row on Sunday. That one was sponsored by Dr Pepper. I'm not sure which contest these kids won, but it was also for seats in the front row on Sunday.
Please don't listen to any misinformed dude who makes a post in a thread.
The OP edits that it was not the Dr. Pepper's contest
He was talking about the Scavanger Hunt prize then. There was a prize with the scavenger hunt that allowed you to get seating for any game by asking a staff. You drew this prize from a grab bag after completion of the fourth step in the Scavanger hunt. From what I am reading it sounds like they got these seats then held onto them for an extended duration where in the rule that you cannot save seats by leaving your belongings on the seat would have kicked in.
There is no prize anywhere that gives you a permanent seat for the event. Otherwise your name wouldve been put on it or something more significant would have been done to insure your seats. If in fact it is true, the point is still moot. It is if anything a failure on MLG to devise a system to ensure these seats to these "contest" winners. But I assure you many people would have won this prize as about 1/3 of the grab bag prize pool was "Free VIP Seats for a game of your choice" and then we would have run out of VIP seats.
On August 02 2011 15:42 [uci] Fizik wrote: Hi, I worked at MLG Anaheim as a VIP Check-in if you want proof I can pull an email and some photos. As far as Dr. Pepper Twitter contest goes, the winners of that contest only won a FREE Spectator's entrance to the event (two to be exact per winner). This is the same pass that everyone else paid 25$ for at entry. The Pass did not include VIP seating in the front three rows. Another regulation in effect was seats could NOT be saved by placing a bag or item on the seat. If the guards had the time and manpower to regulate it better they would have. Considering Xeris is a notable person of the Starcraft 2 scene and considered a pro gamer, he had all rights to take those two seats.
To be honest 2/3 of the VIP seating was being taken by regular spectators and could have easily been kicked off. Do not try to bad PR Xeris for something so trivial.
On August 02 2011 15:57 Whole wrote: There is still the no saving seat policy so...
Exactly. MLG staff, VIPS and Media have all rights to those seats if they are abandoned.
On August 02 2011 15:51 LiquidGaga wrote: This dude is misinformed. (As was I on a different front)
From the dude whose seat was stolen's post: ____________________________________________________________________________ The OP's thread is not entirely accurate (we weren't the people who won the Dr. Pepper contest; we won a separate contest, although those two people sat next to the left of us and also got their seats taken)
There was an additional contest where you could send a text to some number and win 2 seats in the front row on Sunday. That one was sponsored by Dr Pepper. I'm not sure which contest these kids won, but it was also for seats in the front row on Sunday.
Please don't listen to any misinformed dude who makes a post in a thread.
On August 02 2011 15:54 zerglingsfolife wrote: How many contests to win seats are there?
At least 2 apparently.
Yea, if you don't know something for sure, and can't make a confirmed post about something, don't do it cause you just end up looking like a big h8r. now let's all stop drinking this h8erade and move along. The actual prize you are talking about was a frequented prize given to those who completed the MLG Scavanger Hunt. If you don't believe me I can probably retype the entire hunt step for step.
Like i post above, point is moot, Xeris had no idea of any sort of contest seats, the people "saving" seats with their bags were already breaking the rules which a lot of people can probably confirm since I heard a lot of complaints of the yellow security officers kicking "saved seats" out.
Honestly just sounds like a someone acting like a child and refusing to give some guys back their seats after moving their stuff and being told they won them in a contest. Whether or not they were supposed to have those seats or not doesn't change anything. If you steal someone's wrist watch it doesn't make it any better if you find out it was stolen in the first place because it's still stealing. Get off your high horse and join the rest of us for a bit.
On August 02 2011 16:20 Nokarot wrote: If you wanted your apology to be more sincere, you would have posted it on the reddit thread in front of the hounds and private messaged this qetuoadgjlxvn guy (the one whom you took seats from). Instead, you've posted it on Teamliquid, in front of people you knew would be more likely to join your bandwagon.
By making your own thread, you're forcing the people you're apologizing to do all the work, to register for Teamliquid accounts, to private message you and to wait for you to sift through the many many PMs/emails you probably get. It took you 2 months to respond to me when I volunteered to do CSL GFX for you- by then it was too late. Take the initiative and spend 5 minutes on reddit to make sure qetuoadgjlxvn gets your message and doesn't have to search for it. While you're at it, send Gaga your phone number, if you really want him to yell at you.
If you havent done this already (maybe you have, I don't know) it is only further evidence of the self-entitlement and selfishness you're being accused of showing, really.
BTW, xeris, it is nice of you to apologize but you don't really owe the kid anything, If anything MLG is at fault for being disorganized about the event and such a prize. You did everything right and people are hating you for it.
On August 02 2011 16:20 Nokarot wrote: If you wanted your apology to be more sincere, you would have posted it on the reddit thread in front of the hounds and private messaged this qetuoadgjlxvn guy (the one whom you took seats from). Instead, you've posted it on Teamliquid, in front of people you knew would be more likely to join your bandwagon.
By making your own thread, you're forcing the people you're apologizing to do all the work, to register for Teamliquid accounts, to private message you and to wait for you to sift through the many many PMs/emails you probably get. It took you 2 months to respond to me when I volunteered to do CSL GFX for you- by then it was too late. Take the initiative and spend 5 minutes on reddit to make sure qetuoadgjlxvn gets your message and doesn't have to search for it. While you're at it, send Gaga your phone number, if you really want him to yell at you.
If you havent done this already (maybe you have, I don't know) it is only further evidence of the self-entitlement and selfishness you're being accused of showing, really.
edit: oops. 2 posts above mine, looks like someone linked a thread that qetuoadgjlxvn himself has made in response to Xeris. guess he did get the message after all.
Why would you make a post about him not doing something, and then not check to see if he has done that?
On August 02 2011 16:20 Nokarot wrote: If you wanted your apology to be more sincere, you would have posted it on the reddit thread in front of the hounds and private messaged this qetuoadgjlxvn guy (the one whom you took seats from). Instead, you've posted it on Teamliquid, in front of people you knew would be more likely to join your bandwagon.
By making your own thread, you're forcing the people you're apologizing to do all the work, to register for Teamliquid accounts, to private message you and to wait for you to sift through the many many PMs/emails you probably get. It took you 2 months to respond to me when I volunteered to do CSL GFX for you- by then it was too late. Take the initiative and spend 5 minutes on reddit to make sure qetuoadgjlxvn gets your message and doesn't have to search for it. While you're at it, send Gaga your phone number, if you really want him to yell at you.
If you havent done this already (maybe you have, I don't know) it is only further evidence of the self-entitlement and selfishness you're being accused of showing, really.
edit: oops. 2 posts above mine, looks like someone linked a thread that qetuoadgjlxvn himself has made in response to Xeris. guess he did get the message after all.
Why would you make a post about him not doing something, and then not check to see if he has done that?
Regardless of this silly seat bullshit, the point is still that neither party seemed to know the rule, which makes it irrelevant. People are upset about the conduct of a "leader" in our community, not "who should have read the fine print during dr.pepper scavenger hunt."
And this thread is absolutely a stupid topic, but do you know why people get soo upset when people like Idra, Incontrol, or Xeris act out? It's politics. These people show questionable morality, and are always very passive/aggressive. They either all like to walk a fine line for some sort of image, or they really just have ego problems, or both. There are absolutely numerous examples of this documented on this very website. A lot of people know this. A lot more don't, or do and condone it (which is fine too).
But if you want to look at it as trivial, know a little bit about these players/managers/"figures" before you say people just want to throw up pitchforks. Maybe 80% of them are part of a vicious newbie mob mentality, better suited for a viral video, but a lot of the people who get upset with this kind of stuff are people who see the same behavior over and over again and get sick with it (or conversely condone it).
Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
If you really like Xeris so much, be happy he's saying/doing stupid shit now and hopefully not when he'll be in an even brighter spotlight representing a part of our community someday. Props to Sundance for knowing when to have humility, whether he wanted to or not.
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: But if you want to look at it as trivial
It is trivial. There was a misunderstanding and somebody took somebody else's seat. Whoops. It's a fucking seat. Thousands of seats are taken by people every day. It's about as notable as Idra forgetting to tip the pizza delivery guy, which is to say, absolutely not at all. Not that it would stop what amounts to the /b/ hate train from descending on his head like a flock of bloodthirsty vultures.
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
In the free world we call this a mob riot. The police respond to it with tear gas, rubber ammo and fire hoses. Just because one uninformed person who hears a story in second/third person others get worked up over an issue that is not completely understood and starts a witch hunt for this one person.
Hello, the Salem Witch Trials were in four centuries ago where a person who was upset at "witchcraft" got everyone else upset at "witchcraft" and ended up burning a bunch of innocent people alive. Let's not take a step back.
The supported and confirmed facts: - Seats cannot be saved with personal items. - MLG staff, VIPs and MEDIA have full rights to the first three rows at any stage for VIP seating. - No permanent seating prizes were given at any time
The circumstantial: - Xeris took two physically unoccupied seats.
The unsupported facts: - Xeris ego-tripped all over two kids. - Any other account of what happened without physical and supported proof.
On August 02 2011 12:41 shindigs wrote: The first person to sell pitchforks with the words ESPORTS etched on the handle will make billions.
Here's some perspective on the chair situation:
I witnessed a much more heated debate between some people saving seats and security. Eventually the people saving seats starting hurling names at the security guards such as "jackass" which seemed uncalled for, and the security made the guy give up his seat by escorting him outside. The MLG seating situation was pretty bad and caused noticeable tension.
Wow, I didn't know that happened, I was there on Saturday and I have pretty severe arthritis that is kept in check with meds, but overall standing for periods of time is still painful and sitting down is actually worse due to the stiffening. At any rate I brought a chair with me 2nd day but was turned away at the door by security that I couldn't bring it in.
Later on I saw quite a few people who had brought chairs in, and people using chairs for their backpacks. I was pretty pissed off, but ultimately I can't blame others for the failures of the event. Still I left early on Saturday so I just stream watched on Sunday, better to not start a huge drama over seating, if people don't want to be civil about it, nothing you do is going to help matters.
If MLG brings the chairs (or lets me bring mine in) I'll pay admission again next time they're in anaheim, but otherwise I'll stick home and watch streams, not worth fighting like children over chairs.
On August 02 2011 12:41 shindigs wrote: The first person to sell pitchforks with the words ESPORTS etched on the handle will make billions.
Here's some perspective on the chair situation:
I witnessed a much more heated debate between some people saving seats and security. Eventually the people saving seats starting hurling names at the security guards such as "jackass" which seemed uncalled for, and the security made the guy give up his seat by escorting him outside. The MLG seating situation was pretty bad and caused noticeable tension.
Wow, I didn't know that happened, I was there on Saturday and I have pretty severe arthritis that is kept in check with meds, but overall standing for periods of time is still painful and sitting down is actually worse due to the stiffening. At any rate I brought a chair with me 2nd day but was turned away at the door by security that I couldn't bring it in.
Later on I saw quite a few people who had brought chairs in, and people using chairs for their backpacks. I was pretty pissed off, but ultimately I can't blame others for the failures of the event. Still I left early on Saturday so I just stream watched on Sunday, better to not start a huge drama over seating, if people don't want to be civil about it, nothing you do is going to help matters.
If MLG brings the chairs (or lets me bring mine in) I'll pay admission again next time they're in anaheim, but otherwise I'll stick home and watch streams, not worth fighting like children over chairs.
Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
To comment on the seating situation at MLG, they did the best they could while still being within the rules of the Fire Marshall. Just a sucky situation for everyone all around, no one is to blame though!
Gotta love how everyone jumps on this and starts hating the moment they see potential drama. Not to mention the fact that this whole thing was started over a fucking chair. No offense to the original poster on Reddit, but he made Xeris sound as douchy as possible.
Hopefully people realize that the only reason idiots continue to promote and spread this is because they can, not because they genuinely think it's their duty to extend the long arm of the law to this terrible injustice (lol).
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
I guess I was saving everyone's lives when I informed the officer at the front gate that people had deadly chairs setup behind the back rows...They still didn't ask them to take their chairs back...
Anyhow just having fun with you, rules are rules I suppose...
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
It's probably because buildings are regulated so that there can only be X seats and Y people in them at any given time. Presumably they brought enough of their own chairs to fill it to capacity (which would also explain why they didn't bring more,) although that's just a guess.
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
I guess I was saving everyone's lives when I informed the officer at the front gate that people had deadly chairs setup behind the back rows...They still didn't ask them to take their chairs back...
Anyhow just having fun with you, rules are rules I suppose...
Sorry, let me put it as simple as can be so you can understand.
one person having foldable chair = lots of people having foldable chairs
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
In the free world we call this a mob riot. The police respond to it with tear gas, rubber ammo and fire hoses. Just because one uninformed person who hears a story in second/third person others get worked up over an issue that is not completely understood and starts a witch hunt for this one person.
Hello, the Salem Witch Trials were in four centuries ago where a person who was upset at "witchcraft" got everyone else upset at "witchcraft" and ended up burning a bunch of innocent people alive. Let's not take a step back.
The supported and confirmed facts: - Seats cannot be saved with personal items. - MLG staff, VIPs and MEDIA have full rights to the first three rows at any stage for VIP seating. - No permanent seating prizes were given at any time
The circumstantial: - Xeris took two physically unoccupied seats.
The unsupported facts: - Xeris ego-tripped all over two kids. - Any other account of what happened without physical and supported proof.
That's a nice analogy, but acting like this behavior is an anomaly produced by reddit and not generally seen on much larger scales in the rest of the internet on much more popular issues is pretty silly to me. As far as the mob mentality/trial by fire attitude of generally anonymous internet users go, it's not going away, and it's not something we are stepping in or out of, it's something that's been around for quite a few years now. Whether that is right or wrong, it's not something you can really just ignore.
Following that analogy, if it there is indeed a witch-hunt afoot, you should probably keep your ego wand and bm at home, let alone make any statement for your defense that provokes the mob your trying to win over. (I mean that's the goal right, since they really didn't know what they were talking about to begin with?)
And like I said before, the whole seat thing is pretty dumb. Obviously if everyone would of had their MLG contest rulebook with them and acted in a civil manner, Xeris would have been in the right... unfortunately that derails the majority of my post which you didn't seem to want to quote. (hint: the part about conducting yourself appropriately)
While I agree that the facts are a bit unsupported, a very similar past attitude or "X" is supported, and documented. When people are shown two sides of a story, and one side is presented by the supposed victim(s) and multiple people who were right next to the altercation, stating "X" transpired (eventually backed up by the claims of this person having a history of "X"), and the other side is the defending party (who plays into the role worse with his chosen apology) and his teammates ect, It's really not unreasonable to think the defending party is probably the one at fault. And to be naive to the beast that is the internet, not expecting this kind of feedback is pretty shortsighted.
In the end, I don't really give 2 shits about the whole thing. But I do care enough to think it's important to try to clarify why, on a deeper level of principle and past behavior, a lot of other people do, and why even these smaller things tend spark an excessive amount of outcry from the community. You know. The mainstream community. The ones we are trying to befriend or something? :p
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
In the free world we call this a mob riot. The police respond to it with tear gas, rubber ammo and fire hoses. Just because one uninformed person who hears a story in second/third person others get worked up over an issue that is not completely understood and starts a witch hunt for this one person.
Hello, the Salem Witch Trials were in four centuries ago where a person who was upset at "witchcraft" got everyone else upset at "witchcraft" and ended up burning a bunch of innocent people alive. Let's not take a step back.
The supported and confirmed facts: - Seats cannot be saved with personal items. - MLG staff, VIPs and MEDIA have full rights to the first three rows at any stage for VIP seating. - No permanent seating prizes were given at any time
The circumstantial: - Xeris took two physically unoccupied seats.
The unsupported facts: - Xeris ego-tripped all over two kids. - Any other account of what happened without physical and supported proof.
Following that analogy, if it there is indeed a witch-hunt afoot, you should probably keep your ego wand and bm at home, let alone make any statement for your defense that provokes the mob your trying to win over. (I mean that's the goal right, since they really didn't know what they were talking about to begin with?)
You don't get it. The moment this thing turns into an angry mob is when TL locks the thread and passes out bans. Stop trying to turn this situation into something to be learned from or using it to prove a point about another subject. You don't use someone else's misfortune to fuel your own fire, movement, beliefs whatever. I am just here stating the facts from the perspective of someone who knows the rules, regulations and the facts. And the fact is Xeris did nothing wrong in any technical or moral perspective.
The OP did not want to make names or start this "witch hunt" so just drop it and stop trying to steer the conversation into something I would consider off topic. The topic is Xeris's apology, it isnt "moral perspectives on pro gamer behavior".
The thing hit front page on SC2 reddit. What do you expect? A person with a reputation has to defend that reputation or at least make a statement about it or his reputation continues from that point tainted.
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
In the free world we call this a mob riot. The police respond to it with tear gas, rubber ammo and fire hoses. Just because one uninformed person who hears a story in second/third person others get worked up over an issue that is not completely understood and starts a witch hunt for this one person.
Hello, the Salem Witch Trials were in four centuries ago where a person who was upset at "witchcraft" got everyone else upset at "witchcraft" and ended up burning a bunch of innocent people alive. Let's not take a step back.
The supported and confirmed facts: - Seats cannot be saved with personal items. - MLG staff, VIPs and MEDIA have full rights to the first three rows at any stage for VIP seating. - No permanent seating prizes were given at any time
The circumstantial: - Xeris took two physically unoccupied seats.
The unsupported facts: - Xeris ego-tripped all over two kids. - Any other account of what happened without physical and supported proof.
That's a nice analogy, but acting like this behavior is an anomaly produced by reddit and not generally seen on much larger scales in the rest of the internet on much more popular issues is pretty silly to me. As far as the mob mentality/trial by fire attitude of generally anonymous internet users go, it's not going away, and it's not something we are stepping in or out of, it's something that's been around for quite a few years now. Whether that is right or wrong, it's not something you can really just ignore.
The fact that idiotic overblown drama and bloodthirsty internet crusaders can be found on /b/ as well as reddit doesn't actually make it any less idiotic or overblown.
On August 02 2011 17:29 Vansetsu wrote: While I agree that the facts are a bit unsupported, a very similar past attitude or "X" is supported, and documented. When people are shown two sides of a story, and one side is presented by the supposed victim(s) and multiple people who were right next to the altercation, stating "X" transpired (eventually backed up by the claims of this person having a history of "X"), and the other side is the defending party (who plays into the role worse with his chosen apology) and his teammates ect, It's really not unreasonable to think the defending party is probably the one at fault.
That's cool. Xeris is guilty of moving somebody's bag and taking his seat. Somebody stop the presses; the next thing you'll know he won't put the toilet seat down. I don't think we're ready for the sheer amount of outrage that this heinous act is going to inflame. And that's disregarding the fact that a tremendous deal of the fire came down when people had only been shown one side of the story and instantly jumped to (it turns out, incorrect) conclusions.
On August 02 2011 17:29 Vansetsu wrote: And to be naive to the beast that is the internet, not expecting this kind of feedback is pretty shortsighted.
We may not be able to expect retards not to act like retards but we can certainly point out that they're retarded.
On August 02 2011 17:29 Vansetsu wrote: In the end, I don't really give 2 shits about the whole thing. But I do care enough to think it's important to try to clarify why, on a deeper level of principle and past behavior, a lot of other people do, and why even these smaller things tend spark an excessive amount of outcry from the community.
You summed it up perfectly up in your first paragraph: the idiotic mob mentality of anonymous internet users.
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
I guess I was saving everyone's lives when I informed the officer at the front gate that people had deadly chairs setup behind the back rows...They still didn't ask them to take their chairs back...
Anyhow just having fun with you, rules are rules I suppose...
Sorry, let me put it as simple as can be so you can understand.
one person having foldable chair = lots of people having foldable chairs
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
I guess I was saving everyone's lives when I informed the officer at the front gate that people had deadly chairs setup behind the back rows...They still didn't ask them to take their chairs back...
Anyhow just having fun with you, rules are rules I suppose...
Sorry, let me put it as simple as can be so you can understand.
one person having foldable chair = lots of people having foldable chairs
Lots of foldable chairs = blocked exit routes
blocked exit routes = against fire code
against fire code = shut down
Shut down = bad.
you're cute
Some people relate me to a panda. You can think of me as a cute panda cub.
On August 02 2011 17:12 p4NDemik wrote: edit: nvm I see he's posted it here as well.
This whole ordeal is a joke. Blown tremendously out of proportion even though the primary party involved wanted nothing of the sort. Sad.
but then isnt it your ( tl mods) to moderate said blown out of proportion thread? I mean instead of giving out temp bans or closing the thread, our very own TL mods decide to just made a huge joke out of it. + Show Spoiler +
After thinking about this, I'm kind of scared at how quickly shit can turn on Reddit/internet. Someone could easily make up some bullshit story about a player/person(especially someone with a shady past), shitting on them. They could get their friends to then post and lie on the topic so there are multiple people with the same story. Then everyone in the community who was ever wronged or thought negatively about that player/person shares their experiences where they come to the conclusion where the story must be true.
I don't understand how anyone could have the nerve to move somebodies belongings. It's obvious that when they come back to find their seats taken and belongings disrespected, they're not going to be happy. Xeris had no idea in the first place whether the belongings were owned by vips/players/press or spectators, so there is no excuse. Regardless, at least he did the right thing by trying to make amends.
On August 02 2011 17:46 zerglingsfolife wrote: After thinking about this, I'm kind of scared at how quickly shit can turn on Reddit/internet. Someone could easily make up some bullshit story about a player/person(especially someone with a shady past), shitting on them. They could get their friends to then post and lie on the topic so there are multiple people with the same story. Then everyone in the community who was ever wronged or thought negatively about that player/person shares their experiences where they come to the conclusion where the story must be true.
I hope this never happens
It already happened to the Teevox guy. I enjoy surfing reddit, but with the witch hunts and mass downvotes for users that don't agree with the reddit hivemind, it's pretty silly. Fortunately TL exists, plus people actually discuss and play the game here.
Xeris is one of the most awesome people I had the pleasure of "working" with online. During my stay with mTw in 2008/2009 alone he managed Light (eventually getting them sponsored), organized a new team league (what happened to that btw? We had to withdraw unfortunately due to time issues), and from what I hear he organized quite a few offline events in NA on top of that. And he was doing that shit for years already.
I met xeris IRL at WCG US finals that I was supposed to cast in NYC. I can confirm: he is a dick. I was standing watching either idra or machine playing and he literally walked and stood right in front of me - as in my shirt was touching his. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him "excuse me, is there a reason you stepped right in front of me?" to which he replied "I felt like it" so I told him to "get out of my fucking way before I make you get out of my fucking way."
eg.colbi was standing next to me and said "dude, this is motherfucking xeris." I not so calmly replied "I don't give a fuck who he is, you don't get in front of someone like that" (other than incontrol maybe, he's a much bigger guy than me) and he got out of the way.
If he didn't, I was planning on pushing him over the midget barrier >:D
This kind of behavior doesn't surprise me in the least. In the pre-NASL days, Xeris approached me through YouTube asking me to help him publicize a new, amazing announcement that was to be made. This announcement, of course, was the NASL. Within his message he made several suggestions that I'd have the chance to work with the GosuCoaching/NASL staff in promoting the tournament. He also expressed interest in picking me up as a caster and involving me in the league, and suggested a few other things as well (this was a long time ago). I was excited! I told him I'd love to help the NASL succeed, and gave him my contact information. After several reminder messages over the next couple of weeks, I still received absolutely no follow up and eventually gave up.
To this day, I can't help but wonder if he copy/pasted the same message to every single YouTube caster, hoping to get free advertising for their hokey, failure of a league. I've always disliked NASL since that moment, but never expressed it until now.
Is it possible that my messages were lost or he just didn't think I was the right person for the job? Sure, but it's doubtful. Some kind of closure would have been nice. Seems to me that Xeris is just a genuine asshole.
On August 02 2011 17:51 Andord wrote: I don't understand how anyone could have the nerve to move somebodies belongings. It's obvious that when they come back to find their seats taken and belongings disrespected, they're not going to be happy. Xeris had no idea in the first place whether the belongings were owned by vips/players/press or spectators, so there is no excuse. Regardless, at least he did the right thing by trying to make amends.
This is what I don't get either.
Xeris says he was standing in front of two *empty* seats.
Both the guy who won the contest and the guy sitting in the 2nd row said Xeris threw their stuff on the ground. Maybe it's not a big deal to, but I've always just left seats with stuff on them alone, since someone's claiming them (although usually you leave someone sitting with the stuff so no one steals your stuff).
Without the sponsors and the fans esports is nothing. Xeris seems to have a major ego problem and after all, its just Stracraft... The contest winners were representatives of Dr Pepper. A major sponsor. This is terrible for them as they are now associated with this behaviour. If you want people to take esports seriously as a professional sport you have to start acting in a professional manner. You've apologised. Its meaningless in all honesty. More over it was self promoting.
I saw the thread on reddit and I knew it had to be biased, if not exaggerated. I wish reddit could get it's act together and stop supporting attacks on people. Also, their continued support of combatex is disturbing. It's really cool of you to address this publicly, and even offer presents!! Edit: wow, I didn't see the psy and other caster's posts. Seems to be a trend. Oh well, I still stand by my discomfort of reddit's constant attacks on people.
This thread has a bunch of blind faithfuls. The reddit thread on the otherhand has multiple first hand accounts from fans, players, and other people involved with esports.
After reading both sides of the story, seems like a pretty douche move to be honest. If they wouldn't have made a big deal about it on Reddit would you have even bothered to apologize at all? People always apologize after they get caught/called out when they are in the public eye. Just the fact that you moved someone's stuff out of their seat is pretty douchey (I have been to hundreds of sporting/concert events and NEVER done this), then you proceed to not give the seats back after he returns and tell the guy behind you that you earned that spot because you are you. How that's not being a d-bag is beyond me.
On August 02 2011 16:27 Vansetsu wrote: Regardless, if your not part of that other 20%, or at least somewhere in between, the least you can do is not trivialize it. If someone with half a brain who follows the scene is upset with something for good reason, and other lesser informed people get upset like he/she does, the person causing the commotion (who should really know how this will turn out by now) should be ready to expect a good pitchforking to the ass from the lesser informed parts of the general community, deserved or not.
In the free world we call this a mob riot. The police respond to it with tear gas, rubber ammo and fire hoses. Just because one uninformed person who hears a story in second/third person others get worked up over an issue that is not completely understood and starts a witch hunt for this one person.
Hello, the Salem Witch Trials were in four centuries ago where a person who was upset at "witchcraft" got everyone else upset at "witchcraft" and ended up burning a bunch of innocent people alive. Let's not take a step back.
The supported and confirmed facts: - Seats cannot be saved with personal items. - MLG staff, VIPs and MEDIA have full rights to the first three rows at any stage for VIP seating. - No permanent seating prizes were given at any time
The circumstantial: - Xeris took two physically unoccupied seats.
The unsupported facts: - Xeris ego-tripped all over two kids. - Any other account of what happened without physical and supported proof.
Following that analogy, if it there is indeed a witch-hunt afoot, you should probably keep your ego wand and bm at home, let alone make any statement for your defense that provokes the mob your trying to win over. (I mean that's the goal right, since they really didn't know what they were talking about to begin with?)
You don't get it. The moment this thing turns into an angry mob is when TL locks the thread and passes out bans. Stop trying to turn this situation into something to be learned from or using it to prove a point about another subject. You don't use someone else's misfortune to fuel your own fire, movement, beliefs whatever. I am just here stating the facts from the perspective of someone who knows the rules, regulations and the facts. And the fact is Xeris did nothing wrong in any technical or moral perspective.
The OP did not want to make names or start this "witch hunt" so just drop it and stop trying to steer the conversation into something I would consider off topic. The topic is Xeris's apology, it isnt "moral perspectives on pro gamer behavior".
The thing hit front page on SC2 reddit. What do you expect? A person with a reputation has to defend that reputation or at least make a statement about it or his reputation continues from that point tainted.
I really, really hate dissecting posts, but I think I should, just because I disagree with the logic behind almost everything you have said, and to finish my thoughts here.
You don't get it. The moment this thing turns into an angry mob is when TL locks the thread and passes out bans.
If TL didn't want the opinions of their users in a public apology statement, I would Imagine they would lock the thread as soon as it was posted, or upon request of the OP.
Stop trying to turn this situation into something to be learned from or using it to prove a point about another subject.
Why would you ever not want to try and learn or promote constructive thought? I don't know about yourself, but I personally don't care much for the recent amount of over-dramatic threads on TL and elsewhere. I don't see the harm in trying to constructively debate, for the purpose of making more transparent, the root of these kind of indicants. Like I said, it's getting old... both the majority's generally uneducated response, and sometimes the actual (usually easily preventable) drama in question (usually from the same sources).
You don't use someone else's misfortune to fuel your own fire, movement, beliefs whatever.
This one has me confused for two reasons. First, it's hard to decipher who's misfortune you are alluding to lol. Second of all, misfortune is generally the most basic thing that makes people learn to be more cautious. If you (or someone you see) burns their hand on a hot stove, your not being zealous by warning your friends it might be a stupid idea to put your hand on a hot stove.
I am just here stating the facts from the perspective of someone who knows the rules, regulations and the facts. And the fact is Xeris did nothing wrong in any technical or moral perspective.
Well, for just being here stating rules, regulations, and facts, your own statement "And the fact is Xeris did nothing wrong in any technical or moral perspective." makes you sound a little hypocritical, even perhaps biased, when you basically stated earlier "Unsupported fact - Xeris ego-tripped on some kids". Which is it? Supported or Unsupported? If you have a recording or something of what happened, you probably could have stopped the reddit madness along time ago
The OP did not want to make names or start this "witch hunt" so just drop it and stop trying to steer the conversation into something I would consider off topic. The topic is Xeris's apology, it isnt "moral perspectives on pro gamer behavior".
So, how would you approach the topic? Like I said, the thread isn't locked, it's pretty logical it's that way in case someone wanted to start a dialogue on the subject. Perhaps a simple poll accepting or rejecting the apology would be better? When you get to the heart of his apology, and more importantly, why he had to apologize in the first place, that's pretty much what most people are focusing on, since neither party knew the rules you have been kind enough to share with us. Since it really is such a small, relatively less heated issue, I think it's a much better place to critically ask that morality question, as it seems fairly self evident to me that by simply starting to be a little more well behaved, a lot of these "flamed" people or entities would probably be a lot less flammable.
The thing hit front page on SC2 reddit. What do you expect? A person with a reputation has to defend that reputation or at least make a statement about it or his reputation continues from that point tainted.
Personally, I think he could have done a better job with it, let alone given his sometimes-perceived image.
But really, to be honest, I only chimed in when I saw you post, as I felt the fact that your stating of the rules derailed the focus of his very likely behavior, and those are what my intentioned constructive discussion/debate was/is all about.
I will gladly drop the topic for now, it really wasn't my intention to argue with you so much. In fact, thanks for doing your part at MLG. Honestly. I've enjoyed every one more and more, even with stream issues, since the first one. I do hope however, that if people do decide to discuss these kinds of situations, it reflects on a constructive note.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
This is a (mostly) civilized community, which is why we love it.
Speaking to the OP. It seems like whatever stories are told by both parties it usually is something in between. It is good that you are making an effort though and you should not care about the internet crazy crowd as they will get whipped into a frenzy over anything.
No, it's because there is moderation. The fear of moderation stops TL being Reddit, and only that. I would say things on Reddit that I would never saw here, for fear of being banned.
Even though a lot of TLers love to take the high road and just be like thank you for the apology while Reddit is over doing it Xeris has multiple counts against him as being an asshole. Personally I will not just wave this off as oh thank you for the apology and welcome back to the good light shining part of the community. I personally think this entire post is just damage control even the way it is written he doesn't honestly take responsibility for his actions he puts it off to every person possible. This doesn't show he is sorry it shows he is worrying about losing fans because of his attitude. W/e my 2 cents on the topic
I don't know, if it was just reddit blowing things out of proportionate, I don't think some people would've posted in the reddit thread (examples given above about rise/psy etc). Seems like damage control to me as well. You "joked" that you stole the seat because you earned it with hard work? that doesn't sound like a "joke" to me, and the guy who received your comment also didn't perceive it that way. Although it does seem to be a bit blown out of proportion on reddit, pretty obvious what's going on here..
On August 02 2011 18:49 Devolved wrote: After reading both sides of the story, seems like a pretty douche move to be honest. If they wouldn't have made a big deal about it on Reddit would you have even bothered to apologize at all? People always apologize after they get caught/called out when they are in the public eye. Just the fact that you moved someone's stuff out of their seat is pretty douchey (I have been to hundreds of sporting/concert events and NEVER done this), then you proceed to not give the seats back after he returns and tell the guy behind you that you earned that spot because you are you. How that's not being a d-bag is beyond me.
If that had been anyone i know i think he would have got the fuck beat out of him right there and no one would have thought a second about it
Reading what Rise and Psy have posted also confirms what ive thought from the first time i read one of his posts, that he's just a general douchebag
It would be kind of nice if the community as a whole would basically stop ninjaing seats. Most places I've gone to without assigned seating have a "You can't reserve seats" policy, but people are decent and reasonable and don't go moving around someone else's stuff. I mean, even from a common-sense point of view: once people start shuffling things around and taking seats, what is anyone supposed to do? Sit there for hours on end without going to the bathroom or eating? That's absolutely ridiculous. To me, the thing isn't really that big of a deal, but it's basically the equivalent of walking up to someone and giving them the bird. And then subsequently joking about it.
Have some common decency in general. Were it me, the idea of moving someone else's stuff is just absurd - the concept that having a "no saved seats" policy is irrelevant. It's just an unwritten way of being cordial to those around you.
Now, if you leave nothing behind indicating that seat is still your's, well, that's your fault.
On August 02 2011 16:44 [uci] Fizik wrote: Folded chairs go against fire regulation. This is the best they could do, Only thing I can think of them doing better is renting out another entire pavilion like blizzcon where they rent all 3 pavillions and dedicating one entirely to Starcraft which would me roughly 2,500 ish seating I would think.
That's what I hear, my tiny little folding chair (not even a lawn chair) being a fire threat is completely beyond me, what about MLG's chairs? Giant bonfire waiting to happen there, oh no, CHAIRS! I'm bringing a chair next time that can double as a fire extinguisher, so it's not a fire threat
I guess I was saving everyone's lives when I informed the officer at the front gate that people had deadly chairs setup behind the back rows...They still didn't ask them to take their chairs back...
Anyhow just having fun with you, rules are rules I suppose...
Sorry, let me put it as simple as can be so you can understand.
one person having foldable chair = lots of people having foldable chairs
Lots of foldable chairs = blocked exit routes
blocked exit routes = against fire code
against fire code = shut down
Shut down = bad.
That's not simple at all, it requires extensive application of the transitive property, which some gay math or logic shit or something.
I'm more angry at the idiots that posted such inflammatory material in the reddit thread, if I didn't know better, the reaction makes it sound like Xeris not only took both their seats, but when they came back he impaled them on a halberd.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
It's because Reddit is user monitored with up-/downvotes, so the mob mentality can really propel this kind of bashing to the top. On the other hand people are probably more careful about how harsh words they use on TL, since you'd probably get banned if you started to hate too much.
I like both communities, although I think TL's moderation should be more relaxed, and Reddit's userbase should calm down in situations like this. Unfortunately it is kind of impossible to ask an entire userbase to change their ways in any greater extent.
Personally I don't feel that this apology was genuine. I am unsure why but that is the way I feel. However I do think it is nice that Xeris is offering seats at NASL/the next MLG.
Wait, so the reddit people are now douches for posting that and forcing you to apologize, something you wouldn't have done otherwise?? hahahahahahahah. What an incredibly douche move
On August 02 2011 23:47 Hawk wrote: Wait, so the reddit people are now douches for posting that and forcing you to apologize, something you wouldn't have done otherwise?? hahahahahahahah. What an incredibly douche move
Go easy man, acting like a douche is something that has to be earned. Through years of hard work.
On August 02 2011 23:17 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote: Personally I don't feel that this apology was genuine. I am unsure why but that is the way I feel. However I do think it is nice that Xeris is offering seats at NASL/the next MLG.
Yeah same here. But the kid is getting free passes, so who cares. Xeris seems to get himself in quite a few of these situations, eh? (Drama with what he says on the forums, etc.) Remember, dude, you're known, so don't act like a douche anymore, at least in a public setting. ^^
On August 02 2011 23:47 Hawk wrote: Wait, so the reddit people are now douches for posting that and forcing you to apologize, something you wouldn't have done otherwise?? hahahahahahahah. What an incredibly douche move
Go easy man, acting like a douche is something that has to be earned. Through years of hard work.
Am I the only one who thinks that this whole "here goes another witch-hunt" thing is starting to become more annoying than the actual "witch-hunts" that they are based on. Similar with the ESPORTS thing. The hysteria has started to run the other way, now. Every time someone tries to make a critical point about something, fifty people jump in with "OMG HE IS RUINING ESPORTS HA HA I AM IRONIC HA".
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Wow, sneaky. Your ego must make itself known even in the middle of an "apology", eh?
On August 02 2011 23:47 Hawk wrote: Wait, so the reddit people are now douches for posting that and forcing you to apologize, something you wouldn't have done otherwise?? hahahahahahahah. What an incredibly douche move
Go easy man, acting like a douche is something that has to be earned. Through years of hard work.
It's okay, he was having a busy day and is important. It's just a 'misunderstanding'.
On August 02 2011 23:47 Hawk wrote: Wait, so the reddit people are now douches for posting that and forcing you to apologize, something you wouldn't have done otherwise?? hahahahahahahah. What an incredibly douche move
Go easy man, acting like a douche is something that has to be earned. Through years of hard work.
Bottom line is whether seat saving was allowed or not freaking sundance didn't even ego trip and moved when someone told him to. The seat saving part is irrelevant to me because you just don't move someone's stuff off seats and then make a big scene when the people who left come to claim it back.
Sundance had the common decency to move and it's his freaking tournament, while xeris did not. If this was an isolated incident of xeris doing something like this, it wouldn't be a big deal, but his reputation for this goes far back.
All I see are a bunch of elitists laughing at the reddit guys. It might not be a perfect community but neither is TL. Some of you guys really need to get off your fucking high horse and be thankful that there's such a strong Starcraft community in one of the most popular sites on the internet.
On topic however, I don't actually believe Xeris. That said, this is blown way out of proportion.
Seems like he's only sorry that Reddit blew this up and looked bad. This is one of the most insincere apologies I've ever read. So I thank Reddit for letting this be brought to everyone's attention and forcing this guy to own up to what he did.
So if anyone actually reads the comments in the thread, no seats in the VIP area or anywhere can be saved by putting bags down. Winning the contest just gives you a temporary seat in any game VIP area where you can temporarily sit down. If you get up, your seats are gone.
Likely scenario is Xeris was looking for seats, sees people sitting in VIP that aren't VIP. They leave for 5 minutes, so he goes and sits down in their seats. Xeris wasn't even technically in the wrong.
This really just goes to show how badass of a guy Sundance is that he was probably in the same situation and sat down in the chair. Then when told about the situation he got up and moved. Sundance is a fucking hero.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
Wow, sneaky. Your ego must make itself known even in the middle of an "apology", eh?
Very good catch.
Hey Xeris, he did have the courage to say what he thought about. You just didn't listen and he couldn't enforce it.
On August 02 2011 13:05 KawaiiRice wrote: I was sitting right next to the xeris at that time and this guy didn't explain that he had won his seat or anything. He should have been more clear initially because he just came off as an indignant random spectator trying to reserve a VIP seat lol. those masses of random spectators need to get out of the VIP area zz Unfortunate series of misunderstandings really. Mlg needs to give these contest winners a special pass maybe.
Edit: I remember the guy said "I've been sitting in that seat all day. I had my stuff on there." to explain himself. How are we supposed to interpret this?
Honestly though, awesome job. This is why people come to TL.net for over here we tell it like it is! :p
edit:
On August 03 2011 00:51 dblueguy wrote: Seems like he's only sorry that Reddit blew this up and looked bad. This is one of the most insincere apologies I've ever read. So I thank Reddit for letting this be brought to everyone's attention and forcing this guy to own up to what he did.
:o you registered just so you could have a say in this O.O
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Haven't I already clarified that there were no permanent seat prizes and the prize he probably won were for the one game he redeemed em on and (supposedly) kicked Sundance off of. TBH I don't understand why they would kick, of all people, Sundance. There are 6, 15-seat rows in the VIP section and they just happened to choose the ones Sundance was sitting on? Although I do believe the part where Sundance steps aside for the two, to be honest he's the most humble guy I've ever worked for. He walked up to the ticket booth and asked us if it was ok to take two spectator passes for his friends.
We were just like.... uhm... you run this thing. IDK is it ok with you? Now that I think about it, it would almost appear that he has self esteem issues... >.>
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Yeah, the guy who jacks someone seat and says that in response to being called out probably shouldn't be talking too much about honor and stuff
also, you're very clearly defending yourself. You're just doing a poor job of it
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Yeah, the guy who jacks someone seat and says that in response to being called out probably shouldn't be talking too much about honor and stuff
also, you're very clearly defending yourself. You're just doing a poor job of it
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Yeah, the guy who jacks someone seat and says that in response to being called out probably shouldn't be talking too much about honor and stuff
also, you're very clearly defending yourself. You're just doing a poor job of it
Lol~ Chivalry is dead folks. All that remains is trolls, lurkers and them folks on high horses.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Yeah, the guy who jacks someone seat and says that in response to being called out probably shouldn't be talking too much about honor and stuff
also, you're very clearly defending yourself. You're just doing a poor job of it
Lol~ Chivalry is dead folks. All that remains is trolls, lurkers and them folks on high horses.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc]. I didn't think much of it because I thought it was all in jest, but apparently this thread starter had other ideas. I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
While the contest winner might have been intimidated by you, he should have done a better job of standing up for himself (no pun intended). I'm not saying he bears ultimate responsibility - it's just too bad that there was bad communication.
The other guy didn't bother to properly inform you, but I'm not sure about the extent of his responsibility since he was a third party (aside from posting a less considerate, one-sided account of the event).
I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
Yeah, the guy who jacks someone seat and says that in response to being called out probably shouldn't be talking too much about honor and stuff
also, you're very clearly defending yourself. You're just doing a poor job of it
Lol~ Chivalry is dead folks. All that remains is trolls, lurkers and them folks on high horses.
A lot of people here are talking about how reddit has overblown this; how it isn't a big deal; etc. Well, as some random sc2 spectator, I want to contradict this view. Sure, the fact that some guy took some other's chair isn't that important, but it's one piece of a much wider picture.
Let me give some background. I like to contribute to esports; I want it to grow and be successful, but I don't have unlimited money to spend and I have to pick and choose which organisations to support. I want to support the people who seem to have an attitude I can get behind and the ability to expand and improve. It's reports like this which give me the information I need to make that decision.
Time and again, I've seen NASL employees act like they are entitled to my money, and act derisively towards fellows fans, and while there is often an apology, it's often of the same form: 'Oh, well we're sorry but anyway you guys are a bunch of losers / wrong lol' and frankly I find that insulting. Maybe this isn't how it is meant, maybe these are all great guys who are genuinely doing their best, but this is how these things appear to me as an uninformed spectator.
In contrast, my experience with, say, MLG has been much better. While a couple of MLGs ago I was hugely disappointed with the experience and a bit annoyed, I feel that Sundance represented the company well and make a genuine apology, and things have much improved since then. It's for this reason I'm more than happy to pay for my Silver membership, and I would even if Sundance and Xeris' positions in this story were reversed - this alone wouldn't be enough to change my mind, but it's part of a wider picture.
I know this is long, but I wanted to fully explain why I feel reporting on stuff like this is important.
On August 03 2011 05:24 Sureibl wrote: A lot of people here are talking about how reddit has overblown this; how it isn't a big deal; etc. Well, as some random sc2 spectator, I want to contradict this view. Sure, the fact that some guy took some other's chair isn't that important, but it's one piece of a much wider picture.
Let me give some background. I like to contribute to esports; I want it to grow and be successful, but I don't have unlimited money to spend and I have to pick and choose which organisations to support. I want to support the people who seem to have an attitude I can get behind and the ability to expand and improve. It's reports like this which give me the information I need to make that decision.
Time and again, I've seen NASL employees act like they are entitled to my money, and act derisively towards fellows fans, and while there is often an apology, it's often of the same form: 'Oh, well we're sorry but anyway you guys are a bunch of losers / wrong lol' and frankly I find that insulting. Maybe this isn't how it is meant, maybe these are all great guys who are genuinely doing their best, but this is how these things appear to me as an uninformed spectator.
In contrast, my experience with, say, MLG has been much better. While a couple of MLGs ago I was hugely disappointed with the experience and a bit annoyed, I feel that Sundance represented the company well and make a genuine apology, and things have much improved since then. It's for this reason I'm more than happy to pay for my Silver membership, and I would even if Sundance and Xeris' positions in this story were reversed - this alone wouldn't be enough to change my mind, but it's part of a wider picture.
I know this is long, but I wanted to fully explain why I feel reporting on stuff like this is important.
I appreciate your perspective on the situation, and I'd like to ask what I can do to help change your opinion? Why for example, do you consider a Sundance apology more valid than mine? I'd love to know how I can better help assuage people's concerns!
On August 03 2011 04:21 Xeris wrote: I don't mean to say he's responsible. But it seems like the more honorable thing to do, if you have a problem with someone, to tell them to their face rather than wait until you say something in a more anonymous setting where the person you're accusing can't even defend him/herself.
He seemed totally ok when he was talking and sitting behind me, I thought he was just joking around. To come home later, and see the thread he posted, it was a pretty big shock to me.
That's true. It would have shown courtesy to explain what he meant.
I suppose he somehow thought what he said was sufficient. That, or he was judgmental and dismissed you as a jerk.
You know, it would sound more like an apology if you weren't taking sneaky shots while saying sorry...
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
... Why do you do dis if you wanted to 'apologize'?
Xeris was being rude, I think that much is undisputed.
Now maybe he was having a bad day.. maybe he was stressed out.. or maybe he just earned it with years of hard work. Regardless, when you're a known entity in a large public event, you can't expect that dickishness of this sort will go unnoticed. I don't think the fault is with the individual bringing this event to light.
After all was said and done, all Xeris could do was to try to damage control with a public apology, which he did to the best of his abilities. Some bought it as sincere, others did not. However, going around saying its the individual's fault for publicizing this will achieve nothing other than fuel the fire further.
To be honest, I didn't see any of the fans go on rant posts about not getting into the after parties or player's lounge when they tried, because a few did and got turned away. Had they been invited, they would have been let in with no arguments. The only difference is that there was more than enough room for additional people. In this case, there were 2 invited parties and not enough seating with a sprinkle of communication difficulties. They both deserved the seats and couldn't have them.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
... Why do you do dis if you wanted to 'apologize'?
He's not saying this to the guy whose seat he took, but the guy that saw it and posted about it later.
On August 03 2011 05:24 Sureibl wrote: A lot of people here are talking about how reddit has overblown this; how it isn't a big deal; etc. Well, as some random sc2 spectator, I want to contradict this view. Sure, the fact that some guy took some other's chair isn't that important, but it's one piece of a much wider picture.
Let me give some background. I like to contribute to esports; I want it to grow and be successful, but I don't have unlimited money to spend and I have to pick and choose which organisations to support. I want to support the people who seem to have an attitude I can get behind and the ability to expand and improve. It's reports like this which give me the information I need to make that decision.
Time and again, I've seen NASL employees act like they are entitled to my money, and act derisively towards fellows fans, and while there is often an apology, it's often of the same form: 'Oh, well we're sorry but anyway you guys are a bunch of losers / wrong lol' and frankly I find that insulting. Maybe this isn't how it is meant, maybe these are all great guys who are genuinely doing their best, but this is how these things appear to me as an uninformed spectator.
In contrast, my experience with, say, MLG has been much better. While a couple of MLGs ago I was hugely disappointed with the experience and a bit annoyed, I feel that Sundance represented the company well and make a genuine apology, and things have much improved since then. It's for this reason I'm more than happy to pay for my Silver membership, and I would even if Sundance and Xeris' positions in this story were reversed - this alone wouldn't be enough to change my mind, but it's part of a wider picture.
I know this is long, but I wanted to fully explain why I feel reporting on stuff like this is important.
I appreciate your perspective on the situation, and I'd like to ask what I can do to help change your opinion? Why for example, do you consider a Sundance apology more valid than mine? I'd love to know how I can better help assuage people's concerns!
Well, when Sundance took somebody's seat, he gave it back. So you should probably start by not stealing any more seats.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
... Why do you do dis if you wanted to 'apologize'?
Uh? Because I'm not apologizing to the guy who made the reddit thread. I'm apologizing to the guy whose seat I took.
The guy who made the reddit thread =/= the guy whose seat I took.
To be fair, I can completely imagine thinking that people are being sarcastic and thus being sarcastic in return to them.
This is one of the reasons why I felt the need to basically stop all of my sarcasm. If you are right and use it in the right situation, you end up looking sorta funny, but everyone forgets about it in the end. If you are wrong and are sarcastic in a misjudged context, you've basically just acted like a complete dick.
On August 03 2011 06:03 CanucksJC wrote: You know, it would sound more like an apology if you weren't taking sneaky shots while saying sorry...
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
... Why do you do dis if you wanted to 'apologize'?
He's not saying this to the guy whose seat he took, but the guy that saw it and posted about it later.
That....makes so much sense lol. -10 from my preconceptions of potential douchebaggery.
I think NOW it's all clear, then. Thanks for clearing that last bit up!
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
Exactly... this is a great place for anyone well known in the community to make an apology like Xeris did here and have plenty of positive responses. I don't know Xeris, but from reading others in the community and their experiences, I'm gonna have to say this one occasion was VERY LIKELY not just a bad hair day. His apology is more like PR than anything.
And Xeris with the "what else can I do to assuage the fans concerns?" - actions speak louder than words. It won't be easy and it won't be something you can type up here.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
Exactly... this is a great place for anyone well known in the community to make an apology like Xeris did here and have plenty of positive responses. I don't know Xeris, but from reading others in the community and their experiences, I'm gonna have to say this one occasion was VERY LIKELY not just a bad hair day. His apology is more like PR than anything.
And Xeris with the "what else can I do to assuage the fans concerns?" - actions speak louder than words. It won't be easy and it won't be something you can type up here.
Actions do speak louder than words, but to be fair: he's buying the guy a pass to the next MLG or NASL and giving him his press / VIP pass. If actions do speak louder than words, I'd say Xeris' actions speak louder than the words of people who aren't the offended party.
Given what happened, I'd say that's reasonably fair of Xeris. Should he have been nicer in the first place? Absolutely. Especially if he was a dick. But that's already passed, and he's trying to make amends. Even if he has a history of caustic interactions with others, it's possible he's learned from this episode to be more gentle in the future. Or not-- but we'll see. But if every time he's a dick to someone in the future he buys them passes and gives them press passes to make up for it, maybe that's not as bad, and maybe he'll think to sit more carefully next time.
On August 03 2011 05:31 Xeris wrote: Why for example, do you consider a Sundance apology more valid than mine? I'd love to know how I can better help assuage people's concerns!
Here's some specific reasons why Sundance's apology is more valid than yours. Also consider Sundance was not apologizing for purposely being inconsiderate to people, he was apologizes for improper preparation for his tourney, which he later fixed in subsequent tournies. But you asked for it, so here it is:
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I didn't mean to steal your seat, or anyone's seat for that matter -- I saw two empty seats and I sat in one of them.
You didn't mean to steal their seats, but you moved their stuff off the seats, sat in them, and refused to relinquish the seats when the owner of the "stuff" returned. Sounds like you meant to steal the seats to me.
The whole weekend was insanely frustrating trying to find seats, there were people with spectator passes sitting in the player/vip area for almost the entire event, the security didn't do the best job of policing that area so it was like a warzone.
Oh, so it's security's fault that you stole the seats, not your own? That's like a guy breaking into my car blaming the lack of police presence for his criminal behavior.
I could have, and should have given you the seat back. For that, I really apologize.
Coulda woulda shoulda, but didn't. Actions speak louder than words. You can't judge a man by what he says, only by what he does.
I feel bad because I handled it poorly, and it wasn't my intention to be rude in any way.
You feel bad because you got called out. It wasn't your intention to be publicly ridiculed for being rude. You obviously meant to be rude in that situation.
I was standing in front, and saw two empty seats. I sat down with Evoli because the seats were empty.
Were the seats really empty or did you move their belongings out of the seats? Leaving out info like this makes your apology seem insincere and only serves to cast doubt upon yourself. Usually, in an apology, you don't leave out one of the key reasons why you're apologizing. You try to make it look like you've done nothing wrong and are going above and beyond the call of duty to apologize. Basically, you're flat out lying in your apology, unless of course there was nothing in the seats, in which case the guys at Reddit are lying.
...and I never laughed at him. The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc].
You never laughed at him, but you joked with the guy behind you about stealing his seats. That sounds like laughing at him to me.
I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
From your own words, he told you what he thought to your face. What else was he going to do? Make a big scene about stealing someone else's seats after you dismiss his concerns in a joking manner, saying how you have the right to sit there because you earned it? There was really nothing else he could have done at that point, and the fact that you're calling someone out like this in the middle of your apology only serves to further discredit your apology as being genuine.
Initially, I didn't know that the guy was a contest winner. I told the security lady that there were dozens of seats being taken by people with spectator passes and that they should free up more seats and I'd gladly move if she would get myself and Evoli two more seats. It didn't really go anywhere, the security lady walked away and the guy whose seat I sat in left, and I didn't see or hear from them for the rest of the time.
Ignorance is no excuse for being rude. And again, you're trying to shift the blame to someone else. The guy who's seats you stole left? Wow, what a shocker. What else was he going to do, sit on your lap after you refused to get up?
To summarize: -In your apology, you continually try to shift the blame. -You are not being completely forthcoming about what you're even apologizing for (stealing empty seats or moving peoples' stuff out of the seats to steal them). -You continually claim that you did not intend to be rude or that you did not mean to steal the seats, when all of the first hand accounts of your actions (including your own accounts) tell a different story. -Calling out the Reddit guy/community in the middle of an apology makes it look like you have ulterior motives for apologizing.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote:I could have, and should have given you the seat back. For that, I really apologize.
Coulda woulda shoulda, but didn't. Actions speak louder than words. You can't judge a man by what he says, only by what he does.
At this point I'd like to note that Xeris is actually buying the guy a pass to the next MLG or NASL Finals and giving him his press pass / VIP pass... so I mean, in this case I'd say his actions speak louder than your words.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
From your own words, he told you what he thought to your face. What else was he going to do? Make a big scene about stealing someone else's seats after you dismiss his concerns in a joking manner, saying how you have the right to sit there because you earned it? There was really nothing else he could have done at that point, and the fact that you're calling someone out like this in the middle of your apology only serves to further discredit your apology as being genuine.
Um... dude. Read carefully, and you'll see: Xeris isn't criticizing the guy whose seat he took, he's criticizing the guy who posted the incomplete, incorrect story on Reddit...
Look, maybe the apology is bad. Even so, actions speak louder than words, and he's remunerating the guy for his loss by getting him a new pass and VIP thingy. Isn't that good enough?
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I didn't mean to steal your seat, or anyone's seat for that matter -- I saw two empty seats and I sat in one of them.
You didn't mean to steal their seats, but you moved their stuff off the seats, sat in them, and refused to relinquish the seats when the owner of the "stuff" returned. Sounds like you meant to steal the seats to me.
That's not "seat theft" unless it's been pre-established that the person who left something in the seat has ownership of the seat. In this case, the person in question had a claim to the seat by being a contest winner, but Xeris didn't know that. Moving a bag off a seat and then sitting in it isn't "theft" if we're looking at a first-come first-serve seating situation. Which, after the fact, it was determined to be by event regulations.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: The whole weekend was insanely frustrating trying to find seats, there were people with spectator passes sitting in the player/vip area for almost the entire event, the security didn't do the best job of policing that area so it was like a warzone.
Oh, so it's security's fault that you stole the seats, not your own? That's like a guy breaking into my car blaming the lack of police presence for his criminal behavior.
Your analogy is fucking retarded because moving a bag off a seat and breaking into a car aren't the same thing at all, not even by degree. Xeris mistakenly assumed that he was dealing with a person with only a spectator pass who was sitting in the VIP area, meaning that he shouldn't have been there, and that he was only mistakenly allowed there due to event confusion.
On August 03 2011 08:19 Devolved wrote: Were the seats really empty or did you move their belongings out of the seats? Leaving out info like this makes your apology seem insincere and only serves to cast doubt upon yourself. Usually, in an apology, you don't leave out one of the key reasons why you're apologizing. You try to make it look like you've done nothing wrong and are going above and beyond the call of duty to apologize. Basically, you're flat out lying in your apology, unless of course there was nothing in the seats, in which case the guys at Reddit are lying.
To describe a seat without a person in it as "empty" may be a misrepresentation, but it's not "flat out lying."
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: ...and I never laughed at him. The guy behind me was joking about seat stealing with his friends [at least that's what I thought at the time]. So he asked me why I stole the guy's seat despite him earning it, and I joked that I earned it too through years of hard work [I became the manager of a good SC2 team because I worked hard for a long time to get that position, etc].
You never laughed at him, but you joked with the guy behind you about stealing his seats. That sounds like laughing at him to me.
I'm sorry Xeris made a joking response to what he thought was a joking question. Maybe if he kills himself your anger will be appeased.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
From your own words, he told you what he thought to your face. What else was he going to do? Make a big scene about stealing someone else's seats after you dismiss his concerns in a joking manner, saying how you have the right to sit there because you earned it? There was really nothing else he could have done at that point, and the fact that you're calling someone out like this in the middle of your apology only serves to further discredit your apology as being genuine.
He could have explained what was going on about the contest (which would have taken all of approximately ten seconds of civil speech, hardly a HUGE SCENE), or he could have contacted Xeris about it afterwards in a private channel. "Nothing else he could have done"? What a fucking joke.
On August 03 2011 08:19 Devolved wrote: To summarize: -In your apology, you continually try to shift the blame. -You are not being completely forthcoming about what you're even apologizing for (stealing empty seats or moving peoples' stuff out of the seats to steal them). -You continually claim that you did not intend to be rude or that you did not mean to steal the seats, when all of the first hand accounts of your actions (including your own accounts) tell a different story. -Calling out the Reddit guy/community in the middle of an apology makes it look like you have ulterior motives for apologizing.
He was sorry because he thought that he had taken the seat of a person with a spectator pass with no other claim to the VIP area, rather than of a contest winner, which he had every right to do. The Reddit community is, of course, approximately /b/-level when it comes to being out for blood and calling them out on their retardation is utterly appropriate except where Xeris doing so would just make them angrier, but I have no qualms about doing so.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote:I could have, and should have given you the seat back. For that, I really apologize.
Coulda woulda shoulda, but didn't. Actions speak louder than words. You can't judge a man by what he says, only by what he does.
At this point I'd like to note that Xeris is actually buying the guy a pass to the next MLG or NASL Finals and giving him his press pass / VIP pass... so I mean, in this case I'd say his actions speak louder than your words.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
From your own words, he told you what he thought to your face. What else was he going to do? Make a big scene about stealing someone else's seats after you dismiss his concerns in a joking manner, saying how you have the right to sit there because you earned it? There was really nothing else he could have done at that point, and the fact that you're calling someone out like this in the middle of your apology only serves to further discredit your apology as being genuine.
Um... dude. Read carefully, and you'll see: Xeris isn't criticizing the guy whose seat he took, he's criticizing the guy who posted the incomplete, incorrect story on Reddit...
Look, maybe the apology is bad. Even so, actions speak louder than words, and he's remunerating the guy for his loss by getting him a new pass and VIP thingy. Isn't that good enough?
It's called damage control. When he thought people weren't looking his actions were rude and inconsiderate. Now that he knows people are watching, his actions are the opposite. Is it enough? I would say no. He is going to have to prove himself through continued "good behavior" so to speak if he wants my respect. It's a good first step though.
1: People can't read for shit. I don't know how many people in this thread couldn't actually figure out what Xeris typed and fucked up basic parts of the story he talked about.
2: Apparently I'm in the small minority of people who doesn't give 2-shits about other people's property when they try to "save seats".
(at this point, I am well aware it's technically forbidden at MLG, but still something I want to mention). Unless you have an assigned seat of some kind, there is a 75% chance I'm going to move your shit if I need a place to sit. General seating when I can't find a seat means I have no qualms about moving somebody's stuff to finally get a seat. Now, I wont necessarily be a jackass and just look for the best seat w/ stuff on it I can find and take it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to stand around because there's no seats because people are saving seats for themselves for god knows how long.
Also, I think this might be the weakest "drama" I've ever read. I had more meaningful arguments in the 1st grade over superheroes or whether or not I hit somebody in dodgeball.
On August 03 2011 08:51 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Also, I think this might be the weakest "drama" I've ever read. I had more meaningful arguments in the 1st grade over superheroes or whether or not I hit somebody in dodgeball.
Hey, don't knock the grade school drama. Musical chairs was some deadly serious business.
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote:I could have, and should have given you the seat back. For that, I really apologize.
Coulda woulda shoulda, but didn't. Actions speak louder than words. You can't judge a man by what he says, only by what he does.
At this point I'd like to note that Xeris is actually buying the guy a pass to the next MLG or NASL Finals and giving him his press pass / VIP pass... so I mean, in this case I'd say his actions speak louder than your words.
On August 03 2011 08:19 Devolved wrote:
On August 02 2011 11:52 Xeris wrote: I wish you would have had the courage to actually say what you thought about me to my face rather than wait until you got home to write something behind your computer screen, but that's ok.
From your own words, he told you what he thought to your face. What else was he going to do? Make a big scene about stealing someone else's seats after you dismiss his concerns in a joking manner, saying how you have the right to sit there because you earned it? There was really nothing else he could have done at that point, and the fact that you're calling someone out like this in the middle of your apology only serves to further discredit your apology as being genuine.
Um... dude. Read carefully, and you'll see: Xeris isn't criticizing the guy whose seat he took, he's criticizing the guy who posted the incomplete, incorrect story on Reddit...
Look, maybe the apology is bad. Even so, actions speak louder than words, and he's remunerating the guy for his loss by getting him a new pass and VIP thingy. Isn't that good enough?
It's called damage control. When he thought people weren't looking his actions were rude and inconsiderate. Now that he knows people are watching, his actions are the opposite. Is it enough? I would say no. He is going to have to prove himself through continued "good behavior" so to speak if he wants my respect. It's a good first step though.
Look, people will draw their conclusions from what I wrote. If you think this is just PR then no amount of me posting here will change that perception. I had extra need to post and explain my side of the story because the guy who made the Reddit thread was downright saying things way out of proportion to what actually happened. Not only did I want to apologize, but when my friend text'd me and told me about that thread on Reddit, I also wanted to address that, because while the basic facts are right, the way I'm made out to be and the way things were described were really wrong.
My apology and my offer are sincere, and I hope people will take my word. If not, then hopefully in the future I can work to show everyone the kind of person I really am. Anyway, as always, if anyone has any problems or issues with me, feel free to send me a PM and I'll gladly talk to anyone about anything!
On August 03 2011 08:51 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Also, I think this might be the weakest "drama" I've ever read. I had more meaningful arguments in the 1st grade over superheroes or whether or not I hit somebody in dodgeball.
Hey, don't knock the grade school drama. Musical chairs was some deadly serious business.
This has me dying in my chair laughing XD
On another note. Shit happens, it was chairs. You want chair drama? Should have been at EVO. People were going around the convention center stealing chairs/benches from the other people, other ballrooms, even from the booths. The Rio went nuts with security after that.
I swear to god that the SC community is one of the most pathetic communities there are sometimes. A 15 page thread over some guy taking another guy's seat? Come ON! It doesn't matter how 'big' you are in the scene. It's a stupid thing to have to apologise for and a stupid thing to hold a grudge over in the first place.
On August 03 2011 13:41 Swede wrote: I swear to god that the SC community is one of the most pathetic communities there are sometimes. A 15 page thread over some guy taking another guy's seat? Come ON! It doesn't matter how 'big' you are in the scene. It's a stupid thing to have to apologise for and a stupid thing to hold a grudge over in the first place.
It's hard to just say "No big deal" when it probably actually was. Doesn't seem like you were at MLG, but getting a seat period was a hard thing to do. Winning a front row seat and having it taken is hard to say "Oh well."
On August 03 2011 08:51 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I've learned 2 things from this thread.
1: People can't read for shit. I don't know how many people in this thread couldn't actually figure out what Xeris typed and fucked up basic parts of the story he talked about.
2: Apparently I'm in the small minority of people who doesn't give 2-shits about other people's property when they try to "save seats".
(at this point, I am well aware it's technically forbidden at MLG, but still something I want to mention). Unless you have an assigned seat of some kind, there is a 75% chance I'm going to move your shit if I need a place to sit. General seating when I can't find a seat means I have no qualms about moving somebody's stuff to finally get a seat. Now, I wont necessarily be a jackass and just look for the best seat w/ stuff on it I can find and take it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to stand around because there's no seats because people are saving seats for themselves for god knows how long.
Also, I think this might be the weakest "drama" I've ever read. I had more meaningful arguments in the 1st grade over superheroes or whether or not I hit somebody in dodgeball.
haha. This.
people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend.
My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats.
Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces. I was one of those guys who got boo'ed/got shit for breaking up fights, cause I truely despise physical violence. ( I have never understood when i see my friends with a black eye/fat lip and they are bragging about how they kicked some dudes ass... if your walking away with a fat lip and black eye... is it really winning?)
But seriously people who weren't there have NO idea what they were talkin about. Seats were full within 10 minutes of opening. So lazy scavengers were trying to jack seats for the finals or end of the day, after they strolled in 5-6 hours after the other people.
Seriously if you want seats, get there earlier and get a seat. Don't try to jack someone else's who woke up early in order to get it.
So many arguments over this same topic all weekend. Because people wanted to take seats that they were too lazy to get up for.
This was the most hellacious part of the whole tournament, knowing that when you had to piss, your friend had to fight for your seat, and when he had to, you were going to have to nonstop fight/argue for his.
It literally came down to "Your not sitting here, fuck off." and it was up to the other person to decide whether the seat was worth fighting/getting kicked out for, but for me it was, cause i got up at 6am after going to bed at 3-4am, to get it.
The security was TERRIBLE on sunday morning. Wouldnt kick regular passes out of first 3 rows, and kept trying to kick people out of seats for holding their friends seat when he was getting a drink/food. Was miserable. (At one point i asked the guard, "you are telling me... though i got here before the doors opened tog et this seat... havent gotten a drink or gone to the bathroom all day... if i go to the bathroom/to get a drink someone can move my stuff and take my seat?" and he responded with "IDK man, if you want your seat i dont suggest going to the bathroom." to which the guy further down the row from me replied "Alright bro get me a bottle cause im pissing right here, im not losing my seat" then the guard finally stopped trying to get lazy fuckers seats by kicking others out of em)
If you arent willing to get up early for seats, sit in the back, because other people are.
Selfish people amaze me. Having to have this argument all weekend was really old by day 3.
Well I'll know what to do at the next MLG I go to. (Dallas 2012 hopefully)
Loose pants, mini ice chest for food/drinks, and a few empty bottles. I'll have to practice pee'ing in a bottle while not being awkward as fuck though.
On August 03 2011 16:07 Whole wrote: Well I'll know what to do at the next MLG I go to. (Dallas 2012 hopefully)
Loose pants, mini ice chest for food/drinks, and a few empty bottles. I'll have to practice pee'ing in a bottle while not being awkward as fuck though.
As funny as it is, this is pretty much what MLG tried to turn it into.
It basically came down to deciding whether or not you were willing to tell a group of people to go fuck themselves, and getting them to understand they were going to have to physically fight you, for that seat in which case you would both be kicked out.
Luckily, when you got there in the morning, by the time games started, you were already friends/chatting with all of the people around you, so for the most part even complete strangers would watch/protect your seat for you. But on day 3 some guys would ask the security guard to remove people from their seats/remove people who were saving their friends seat. And then it came down to stalling the security guard long enough until your friend got back to sit back down in it.
There were literally more confrontations/arguments over seats than anything else this weekend.
Also the mini-icechest thing made me laugh, because the people next to us had a backpack full of ice/beer/styrofoam cups, as well as a camelback backpack full of liqour. They were hilarious and at one point told the security guard they were going to piss in the aisle if he tried to give away their friends seat while he was in the bathroom.
Also @ people who werent at MLG, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Getting a seat for MLG meant getting there at 8 in the morning, and not moving from it until the day was over at 2am 11pm 9 pm. i had 4th row seats (the best you can get without VIP access) and was constantly fighting/arguing with people all weekend. As well as annoyed by people stealing vip seats when they werent allowed there. Security was god-awful.
haha. This. people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend. My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats. Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
Do you not understand what rules are? Maybe there just needs to be more nazi-strictness in MLG about seats. TBH it was brought up by several staffers throughout the event but out of grace and mercy MLG decided not to be strict about the VIP seating but still held firm to the "no saving seats" rule.
Let's be honest, seating is the most demanded commodity in e-sports. I mean just like any sports event better seats cost more. I suggested to them to just sell seating by the chair to those who are serious about watching it. Like seriously there is no real solution to this problem then selling the front half sector to those that are serious about their seats. Gives MLG some money (maybe they can invest in some bleachers, derp) to use to better the events. 25$ spectator admissions, ~40$ for a permanent seat for entire event? or have a random drawn rotation for seating to a pool that applies for seating per match (only available to those who pre-register giving incentive for people to pre-purchase tickets).
Example: Tickets # 1-250 get to watch game one, Tickets 250-500 watch game#2, Tickets 501-750 watch game#3 and have it cycle. Then sell the Semifinals/finals seating per ticket.
This way, the "lazy" ones who don't follow the process get deserved seating in the open seating pool ( the second half behind the first half) where it will be strictly enforced of "no seat saving".
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces.
No you are just a rule breaker who doesn't understand or accept the things that don't go your way or concepts that aren't to your idealism of which all might as well be classified as an infringement on your freedoms and rights.
Not to mention one greedy bastard. Why would you be so greedy as to want to reserve a whole section of seats just for you and your friends for the entire day knowing that there are only 1,000 seats to the 2,000 people. You talk about being "fair" to those who "earned it" what did you earn? Great, you got your seats early and got to have good seating for the first half of the games. But eventually you need to go eat, pee, walk around, do something other then sit there waiting like a sack of derp. You guys took shifts eating? So you are telling me for 20-30 minutes that someone could have been sitting in those seats you guys wasted your own time and everyone else's time to keep them vacant? Jesus Christ you can see the game from anywhere in the room, they may not be the best but whatever. Stop being so greedy and learn to enjoy the whole event and maybe you wouldn't be such a big angry ball of rage like the other greedy people.
Reminds me of the episode of South Park where kids with small dicks rage at the world about how unfair the "rules" are.
haha. This. people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend. My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats. Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
Do you not understand what rules are? Maybe there just needs to be more nazi-strictness in MLG about seats. TBH it was brought up by several staffers throughout the event but out of grace and mercy MLG decided not to be strict about the VIP seating but still held firm to the "no saving seats" rule.
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces.
No you are just a rule breaker who doesn't understand or accept the things that don't go your way or concepts that aren't to your idealism of which all might as well be classified as an infringement on your freedoms and rights.
It may disappoint you to realize that, more or less, nobody actually gives a shit about the rules.
haha. This. people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend. My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats. Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
Do you not understand what rules are? Maybe there just needs to be more nazi-strictness in MLG about seats. TBH it was brought up by several staffers throughout the event but out of grace and mercy MLG decided not to be strict about the VIP seating but still held firm to the "no saving seats" rule.
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces.
No you are just a rule breaker who doesn't understand or accept the things that don't go your way or concepts that aren't to your idealism of which all might as well be classified as an infringement on your freedoms and rights.
It may disappoint you to realize that, more or less, nobody actually gives a shit about the rules.
O, rly, then why don't you walk outside, take a knife, cut someone with it you rebel "I dont care about the rules". Maybe you should reconsider your thought process and give some respect to the people that work to create events like MLG and keep it running and continue to bring us great games, competitions and events.
But then again, someone like you will probably respond with "LOL It's EASY TO SET UP AN EVENT LIKE MLG WITHOUT RULEZZ" and probably sit in your base trying to build more probes at 10/10 food saying "WHY DO I NEED PYLONS TO MAKE MORE PROBES. FUCK THE RULES"
Society is a structure built upon units of order. Order is maintained with laws.
haha. This. people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend. My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats. Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
Do you not understand what rules are? Maybe there just needs to be more nazi-strictness in MLG about seats. TBH it was brought up by several staffers throughout the event but out of grace and mercy MLG decided not to be strict about the VIP seating but still held firm to the "no saving seats" rule.
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces.
No you are just a rule breaker who doesn't understand or accept the things that don't go your way or concepts that aren't to your idealism of which all might as well be classified as an infringement on your freedoms and rights.
It may disappoint you to realize that, more or less, nobody actually gives a shit about the rules.
O, rly, then why don't you walk outside, take a knife, cut someone with it you rebel.
I'm not going to do that because I am neither crazy nor a psychopath. What the fuck.
On August 03 2011 17:05 [uci] Fizik wrote: "I dont care about the rules". Maybe you should reconsider your thought process and give some respect to the people that work to create events like MLG and keep it running and continue to bring us great games, competitions and events.
Nobody at MLG is going to die or retire because somebody tried to save a seat for somebody who was using the restroom.
On August 03 2011 17:05 [uci] Fizik wrote: But then again, someone like you will probably respond with "LOL It's EASY TO SET UP AN EVENT LIKE MLG WITHOUT RULEZZ"
Nobody at MLG is going to die or retire because somebody tried to save a seat for somebody who was using the restroom.
On August 03 2011 17:05 [uci] Fizik wrote: and probably sit in your base trying to build more probes at 10/10 food saying "WHY DO I NEED PYLONS TO MAKE MORE PROBES. FUCK THE RULES"
Are you stupid?
On August 03 2011 17:05 [uci] Fizik wrote: Society is a structure built upon units of order. Order is maintained with laws.
Saving seats at MLG was not illegal activity. No laws were broken. What the fuck.
Well, hopefully this problem will be resolved at upcoming events. The demand of chairs exceeding the supply is probably a good thing for MLG to worry about! It means that they're doing the right thing, and people are rabid about getting seats at their event.
I'd love to see 10,000 chairs at the national final, and 10,000 seats be filled!
this is pretty strange, because i actually watched you do this. although, i had no idea who you were at the time.
let me just say:
there was a giant problem with security regarding the first couple rows. i was one of many press members who could not find a seat for a long time, while people without credentials sat in seats that they weren't supposed to. it took a good 45 minutes until someone started policing the area, and even then, they just did a single sweep and left.
when i saw you take those kids' seats, i too was waiting to sit down, so i empathized with your actions, as i was a bit fed up with standing. but the problem was that you took their bags, and put them a couple feet in front of you, almost directly in the middle of the row in front of all the seats that people were walking through. i don't think taking the seat was a huge deal, but not respecting their personal property, and just putting it out there while they were gone was a bit of a dick move.
i should note that other were people were doing this. it wasn't only this guy. i saw many people moving things that were left on seats to 'mark' them.
On August 03 2011 15:08 zaii wrote: So it looks like Xeris might get an event ban or permanently lose his press/VIP privileges.
MLG Clap the Senior VP, League Operations and Production is looking into it.
What's your source?
MLG clap was in the chat during SOTG and alot of ppl were telling him about the xeris situation. He said his looking into this situation. also said Xeris will lose his past privileges if found guilty.
I feel bad for the guy getting driven away from his seat like that, but i understand that it was all a misunderstanding. Also, it's pretty fucked up that noone is keeping track of the VIP-seats. The security lady basically not bothering with helping the guy get his seat back from you kind of explains how bad of a job they are doing.
On August 03 2011 15:08 zaii wrote: So it looks like Xeris might get an event ban or permanently lose his press/VIP privileges.
MLG Clap the Senior VP, League Operations and Production is looking into it.
What's your source?
MLG clap was in the chat during SOTG and alot of ppl were telling him about the xeris situation. He said his looking into this situation. also said Xeris will lose his past privileges if found guilty.
On August 03 2011 15:08 zaii wrote: So it looks like Xeris might get an event ban or permanently lose his press/VIP privileges.
MLG Clap the Senior VP, League Operations and Production is looking into it.
What's your source?
MLG clap was in the chat during SOTG and alot of ppl were telling him about the xeris situation. He said his looking into this situation. also said Xeris will lose his past privileges if found guilty.
On August 03 2011 15:08 zaii wrote: So it looks like Xeris might get an event ban or permanently lose his press/VIP privileges.
MLG Clap the Senior VP, League Operations and Production is looking into it.
What's your source?
MLG clap was in the chat during SOTG and alot of ppl were telling him about the xeris situation. He said his looking into this situation. also said Xeris will lose his past privileges if found guilty.
Guilty of what?
taking reserved seats from Dr.Pepper contestant winners, Hell even Sundance the CEO himself moved when they asked him to.
On August 03 2011 15:08 zaii wrote: So it looks like Xeris might get an event ban or permanently lose his press/VIP privileges.
MLG Clap the Senior VP, League Operations and Production is looking into it.
What's your source?
MLG clap was in the chat during SOTG and alot of ppl were telling him about the xeris situation. He said his looking into this situation. also said Xeris will lose his past privileges if found guilty.
Guilty of what?
taking reserved seats from Dr.Pepper contestant winners, Hell even Sundance the CEO himself moved when they asked him to.
This seems a bit silly, this witch-hunt on reddit was crazy, and the Vice President of MLG investigating the alledged 'stealing' of a seat is just totally uncalled for.
And LiquidGaga said the contest was not from Dr Pepper, so Xeris cannot be found guilty for said 'crime'.
Why MLG is putting manpower into punishing an alledged seat 'stealer' and not putting said manpower in arranging more seats for the next event is beyond me.
hold on, I know there are two different stories but Ive heard that evoli and xeris took the seats, then I heard xeris and his girlfriend did. it must have been cleared up here somewhere in the 300 replies but I thought evoli was a man..
Man I've been reading the reddit responses... there are a bunch of things others have said about Xeris.
If even half of it is true... he is exactly the type of person esports doesn't need.
EDIT: You know what, I'm going to make another post just quoting a few people on reddit (it's not like these are nonames... we got people like special endrey and psystarcraft complaining about Xeris). I really feel like Xeris needs to respond to the criticism.
PsyStarcraft wrote: This kind of behavior doesn't surprise me in the least. In the pre-NASL days, Xeris approached me through YouTube asking me to help him publicize a new, amazing announcement that was to be made. This announcement, of course, was the NASL. Within his message he made several suggestions that I'd have the chance to work with the GosuCoaching/NASL staff in promoting the tournament. He also expressed interest in picking me up as a caster and involving me in the league, and suggested a few other things as well (this was a long time ago). I was excited! I told him I'd love to help the NASL succeed, and gave him my contact information. After several reminder messages over the next couple of weeks, I still received absolutely no follow up and eventually gave up. To this day, I can't help but wonder if he copy/pasted the same message to every single YouTube caster, hoping to get free advertising for their hokey, failure of a league. I've always disliked NASL since that moment, but never expressed it until now. Is it possible that my messages were lost or he just didn't think I was the right person for the job? Sure, but it's doubtful. Some kind of closure would have been nice. Seems to me that Xeris is just a genuine asshole.
Special Endrey wrote: Well i only read about a 100 comments. So here is my point of view regarding my personal expierience with that guy. I heard from various other sources (people deep in the community), that he is quite an arrogant person. So i expierienced it 1st hand too. Quite a while back (about 8-9 months), there was a tournament series, with no announced caster so I said to myself. Sure why not. try it, go for it - the least thing you can get will be a "No sorry, we are looking for someone else. We already have someone else for that postion", I was never more wrong! Despite from writing up an eSports CV, my casting experience, references, talking in detail about my stream quality the ability to have all VODs as avi,flv on varoius streaming providers, you tube upload etc. I didnt even get a fucking answer. Thats not only unproffesional, thats also fucking rude. So there were more announcements about other tournaments, leagues etc. where he was involved for example the NASL Open tour which was not even casted in the 1st one and a half day. TL Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230478 where it says "I will be online throughout the games tomorrow. You can also email me any problems/questions at xeris@nasl.tv!" Well so i summed up all my skills, references etc.etc. because I thought "they would prolly let me do the casting before nobody is doing it, coz otherwise it would be just plain stupid" guess what, no answer. its not like i didnt try it. Multiple times via mail, PM. In all that time, I casted dozens of showmatches tours, cups, leagues, casuals games. And I never got ignored that much by someone. So I am currently planning something. I already talked to teammanagers of Liquid, Dignitas, EG etc. all no problem at all. Guess what who I wont be talking to. Btw fnatic players are awesome, dont let the players suffer for Xeris beeing not able to act like a proffesional, when you are about to use your pitchforks!
NASL Graphic Designer? wrote: yo ... FUCK Xeris, what a little bitch. You know for NASL, none of the graphic designers were paid? He basically just emailed us and cc'd all designers in saying shit like "i need cool banner with x and y", whoever makes it first, it goes up. He never gave deadlines, none of that shit. Nobody got paid, it was volunteer work obviously but we deserve a bit more than just "plz make me this, thx!!!11" via email. Fucking bullshit. I told him to fuck off on Skype, called him a cunt and that was that. FUCK Xeris. With that being said, I don't see why the guys didn't say straight up to him "listen buddy, we won these seats, now get the flying FUCK out of them or I will physically remove you". Nothing wrong with that.
Some guy on Reddit wrote: I met xeris IRL at WCG US finals that I was supposed to cast in NYC. I can confirm: he is a dick. I was standing watching either idra or machine playing and he literally walked and stood right in front of me - as in my shirt was touching his. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him "excuse me, is there a reason you stepped right in front of me?" to which he replied "I felt like it" so I told him to "get out of my fucking way before I make you get out of my fucking way." eg.colbi was standing next to me and said "dude, this is motherfucking xeris." I not so calmly replied "I don't give a fuck who he is, you don't get in front of someone like that" (other than incontrol maybe, he's a much bigger guy than me) and he got out of the way. If he didn't, I was planning on pushing him over the midget barrier >:D tl;dr yes, xeris is a big douche IRL
PsyStarcraft: That was an idea that one of the ex owners of NASL had (to promote the NASL on youtube) that was never followed up on. We had some youtube stuff going, but we really didn't do anything about it. I pm'd you on my youtube account, which I rarely ever check and just plain forgot about it because we didn't really have any follow up, so that idea pretty much died.
If you're offended about that, my apologies!
Special Endrey -- I know your post isn't true because you claim that the NASL Open wasn't casted for the first 1.5 days? It was cast by Axel and 2 other casters for the first few days, and the final days were cast by Gretorp and iNcontroL. The Season 2 Qualifier was cast exclusively by Axel and Khaldor. I either never received, or never got to any message from you (unless it was under a different name?). I get a LOT of emails and PM's and sometimes I don't get to all of them. I try my best to respond to everyone that talks to me. Your post is either flat out untrue, or I missed your pm where you asked if you could cast.
I've seen the events you host, and they're all good!
NASL Graphic Designer? -- I've never been told by anyone through skype or email to 'fuck off.' This is totally untrue. I also never claimed to pay any of the graphic designers. It was made pretty clear when I posted looking for admins that graphics people would be volunteer work. You didn't have to volunteer your time if you didn't want to. I asked for banner requests from time to time for news pieces, and I posted up the ones I received. That's how I've always done banner requests through CSL and other things I host, I'm sorry if this is not what you were expecting?
SC2GGRise -- I don't even remember ever meeting him. That's not even something I'd say to anyone in real life, that situation he writes about absolutely never happened. Since this post is entirely slanderous I'm not sure there's much else I can say
As far as I know the reddit post I made got downvoted to oblivion. I feel as if that community can't be convinced of anything, so I'll just have to do what I do and hopefully people's opinions of me will change with time. I'll try my best, at least.
On August 02 2011 12:15 byanymeans wrote: I love the difference in respect levels between this thread and the reddit thread.
I dont think thats it. People on tl cant post about it if they dont have anything positive to say or they will face consequences, so they just dont post. However anything goes on reddit, so thats where you would see a more true response i think.
Exactly... this is a great place for anyone well known in the community to make an apology like Xeris did here and have plenty of positive responses. I don't know Xeris, but from reading others in the community and their experiences, I'm gonna have to say this one occasion was VERY LIKELY not just a bad hair day. His apology is more like PR than anything.
And Xeris with the "what else can I do to assuage the fans concerns?" - actions speak louder than words. It won't be easy and it won't be something you can type up here.
Actions do speak louder than words, but to be fair: he's buying the guy a pass to the next MLG or NASL and giving him his press / VIP pass. If actions do speak louder than words, I'd say Xeris' actions speak louder than the words of people who aren't the offended party.
Given what happened, I'd say that's reasonably fair of Xeris. Should he have been nicer in the first place? Absolutely. Especially if he was a dick. But that's already passed, and he's trying to make amends. Even if he has a history of caustic interactions with others, it's possible he's learned from this episode to be more gentle in the future. Or not-- but we'll see. But if every time he's a dick to someone in the future he buys them passes and gives them press passes to make up for it, maybe that's not as bad, and maybe he'll think to sit more carefully next time.
Do you honestly think Xeris would make the gesture to buy someone tickets if the thread hadn't exploded on Reddit? Doing something nice for damage control is not the same thing as doing something nice because you're a genuinely nice person.
On August 04 2011 03:39 Xeris wrote: PsyStarcraft: That was an idea that one of the ex owners of NASL had (to promote the NASL on youtube) that was never followed up on. We had some youtube stuff going, but we really didn't do anything about it. I pm'd you on my youtube account, which I rarely ever check and just plain forgot about it because we didn't really have any follow up, so that idea pretty much died.
If you're offended about that, my apologies!
Special Endrey -- I know your post isn't true because you claim that the NASL Open wasn't casted for the first 1.5 days? It was cast by Axel and 2 other casters for the first few days, and the final days were cast by Gretorp and iNcontroL. The Season 2 Qualifier was cast exclusively by Axel and Khaldor. I either never received, or never got to any message from you (unless it was under a different name?). I get a LOT of emails and PM's and sometimes I don't get to all of them. I try my best to respond to everyone that talks to me. Your post is either flat out untrue, or I missed your pm where you asked if you could cast.
I've seen the events you host, and they're all good!
NASL Graphic Designer? -- I've never been told by anyone through skype or email to 'fuck off.' This is totally untrue. I also never claimed to pay any of the graphic designers. It was made pretty clear when I posted looking for admins that graphics people would be volunteer work. You didn't have to volunteer your time if you didn't want to. I asked for banner requests from time to time for news pieces, and I posted up the ones I received. That's how I've always done banner requests through CSL and other things I host, I'm sorry if this is not what you were expecting?
SC2GGRise -- I don't even remember ever meeting him. That's not even something I'd say to anyone in real life, that situation he writes about absolutely never happened. Since this post is entirely slanderous I'm not sure there's much else I can say
See, here's the thing Xeris. You always seem to have an explanation for everything brought against you, but stuff keeps coming up that paints you in a bad light: this whole seat-stealing thing, where you're trying to diminish witness's statements; PsyStarcraft's thing, where you "forgot" to check your Youtube account, despite choosing that account to send it from when at the time it was important; SC2GGRise's thing that will go unproven either way; numerous complaints about the NASL that are responded to by apologies that sound just as disingenuous as this one. People may just have something against you, and with anonymous Reddit users I wouldn't be surprised. But when prominent members of the community chime in, their anecdotes feel more truthful.
Someone already picked apart your apology a few pages back, and I feel he nailed everything that is making a lot of community members upset with you and your apology. You may not be guilty of some of the allegations against you, and you might be truthful when you say all your mistakes are "learning opportunities", but you seem pretty slow to learn from your mistakes. Every time you post an apology it sounds like you're back pedaling. I think it would do you good to do some critical thinking about why that is and how you can put forth the extra effort to fix problem situations before it becomes a larger concern.
Wow, after browsing reddit and the topic there about this whole thing I am not suprised that a lot of people hate the reddit community (including Funnyjunk and therefore me). People need to learn to get a fucking life instead of arguing for 600 comments over one person taking the seat of another.
I mean seriously, is that the only thing these people can think of to bitch and complain about? Xeris even apologized, and yet these idiots are still full frontal flaming for no good reason.
I mean seriously, what the fuck is wrong with some people...
On August 04 2011 09:25 Rokk wrote: See, here's the thing Xeris. You always seem to have an explanation for everything brought against you, but stuff keeps coming up that paints you in a bad light: this whole seat-stealing thing, where you're trying to diminish witness's statements; PsyStarcraft's thing, where you "forgot" to check your Youtube account, despite choosing that account to send it from when at the time it was important; SC2GGRise's thing that will go unproven either way; numerous complaints about the NASL that are responded to by apologies that sound just as disingenuous as this one. People may just have something against you, and with anonymous Reddit users I wouldn't be surprised. But when prominent members of the community chime in, their anecdotes feel more truthful.
Guess what, when you're around a community long enough, people will find reasons to dislike you. I'm a nobody in this community other than a name on Team Liquid but I'm sure there are some people who could bitch about me at this point. Once you've pissed somebody off, purposefully or not, people will hold a grudge and remember they hate you for a long time. '
When you're somebody who is involved in the community as much as Xeris is, that only amplifies the number of people who he might have rubbed the wrong way. And the vocal minority who want to air their grievances will have their soap box to stand on, always.
On August 04 2011 09:25 Rokk wrote: See, here's the thing Xeris. You always seem to have an explanation for everything brought against you, but stuff keeps coming up that paints you in a bad light: this whole seat-stealing thing, where you're trying to diminish witness's statements; PsyStarcraft's thing, where you "forgot" to check your Youtube account, despite choosing that account to send it from when at the time it was important; SC2GGRise's thing that will go unproven either way; numerous complaints about the NASL that are responded to by apologies that sound just as disingenuous as this one. People may just have something against you, and with anonymous Reddit users I wouldn't be surprised. But when prominent members of the community chime in, their anecdotes feel more truthful.
Guess what, when you're around a community long enough, people will find reasons to dislike you. I'm a nobody in this community other than a name on Team Liquid but I'm sure there are some people who could bitch about me at this point. Once you've pissed somebody off, purposefully or not, people will hold a grudge and remember they hate you for a long time. '
When you're somebody who is involved in the community as much as Xeris is, that only amplifies the number of people who he might have rubbed the wrong way. And the vocal minority who want to air their grievances will have their soap box to stand on, always.
Well sure, some people will find a reason to dislike you, but that doesn't really mean anything. Some community members have very little good press about them while some have almost all good press. "Haters gonna hate" isn't exactly a defense when you're a prominent community member who has a lot of bad press and is also the face of a commercial product.
On August 04 2011 09:30 Xeris wrote: I totally agree with you, there definitely is something I'm not doing right, but hopefully I'll figure it out
To be honest, this is one of the first posts I've read of yours that feels truly genuine. There's no bullshit. You don't sound like you're trying to cover your own ass. It's short, simple, and sounds humble. I really feel like it's those qualities that get the majority on your side and keeps the Reddit mob from picking up their pitchforks.
On August 04 2011 09:30 Xeris wrote: I totally agree with you, there definitely is something I'm not doing right, but hopefully I'll figure it out
Next time someone bitches at you for taking their seat, start rubbing your skin against theirs. Hopefully they love the feel of it and will forget the whole thing happened. There isn't a single problem out there that you cannot solve with your smooth olive skin.
haha. This. people like you are the lazy bastards other people argued with all weekend. My friend and I got up at 6 to gaurentee we got good seats. Whenever one of us was in the bathroom, or getting a drink, the other had to fight off people off the seat endlessly. Almost resulting in a fight in one case, where 3 guys tried to move my buddys backpack out of his chair. And I just simply told them to fuck off cause it wasnt happening.
Do you not understand what rules are? Maybe there just needs to be more nazi-strictness in MLG about seats. TBH it was brought up by several staffers throughout the event but out of grace and mercy MLG decided not to be strict about the VIP seating but still held firm to the "no saving seats" rule.
Let's be honest, seating is the most demanded commodity in e-sports. I mean just like any sports event better seats cost more. I suggested to them to just sell seating by the chair to those who are serious about watching it. Like seriously there is no real solution to this problem then selling the front half sector to those that are serious about their seats. Gives MLG some money (maybe they can invest in some bleachers, derp) to use to better the events. 25$ spectator admissions, ~40$ for a permanent seat for entire event? or have a random drawn rotation for seating to a pool that applies for seating per match (only available to those who pre-register giving incentive for people to pre-purchase tickets).
Example: Tickets # 1-250 get to watch game one, Tickets 250-500 watch game#2, Tickets 501-750 watch game#3 and have it cycle. Then sell the Semifinals/finals seating per ticket.
This way, the "lazy" ones who don't follow the process get deserved seating in the open seating pool ( the second half behind the first half) where it will be strictly enforced of "no seat saving".
I am not some macho dickhead. I am not a brawler at all, i prefer to tell you your an idiot and walk away rather than get in a fight, where both of us are going to walk away with bruises/blood on our faces.
No you are just a rule breaker who doesn't understand or accept the things that don't go your way or concepts that aren't to your idealism of which all might as well be classified as an infringement on your freedoms and rights.
Not to mention one greedy bastard. Why would you be so greedy as to want to reserve a whole section of seats just for you and your friends for the entire day knowing that there are only 1,000 seats to the 2,000 people. You talk about being "fair" to those who "earned it" what did you earn? Great, you got your seats early and got to have good seating for the first half of the games. But eventually you need to go eat, pee, walk around, do something other then sit there waiting like a sack of derp. You guys took shifts eating? So you are telling me for 20-30 minutes that someone could have been sitting in those seats you guys wasted your own time and everyone else's time to keep them vacant? Jesus Christ you can see the game from anywhere in the room, they may not be the best but whatever. Stop being so greedy and learn to enjoy the whole event and maybe you wouldn't be such a big angry ball of rage like the other greedy people.
Reminds me of the episode of South Park where kids with small dicks rage at the world about how unfair the "rules" are.
you are obviously one of the retarded kids who didnt understand the announcments made.
they explicitly talked about getting there early, throwing your shit on a seat and then not using them
They were talking about people who would get there at 8 abd just set something down on seats and never return.
It was NEVER the case where they were telling people who went to the restroom would lose their seat.
I am glad you are brave enough to point yourself out as one of the idiots who couldnt understand the reasoning behind the announcement.
It actually had nothing to do with people using the restroom, while their friend was still in the seat.
And you are right, I am greedy for waking up at 6 and not hardly sleeping to get a good seat, and not freely giving it to some selfish prick who strolled in 6 hours later and wanted front row seats.
Guys, I have no idea why u would hate on Xeris. I learned from him to throw people shit off the chair and take it if I want a chair. We all know now that we can just take any saved chair with stuff on it EZ, probably the ones in the reserved as well.
On August 04 2011 09:30 Xeris wrote: I totally agree with you, there definitely is something I'm not doing right, but hopefully I'll figure it out
I think the problem is that you appear only to be trying to look good after the fact, with little-to-no acknowledgment that what you did was wrong.
You say things similar to, "I'm terribly sorry for acting in a bad way", which is great. People want to know that you realize that you've done something wrong; they want a gesture that you will endeavor to improve yourself, and that it won't happen again.
Unfortunately, you undermine your apology by blaming every person within a 10m radius from the seats. The security was at fault, the guy in the seat behind you was at fault, the other person's communication was at fault, etc. This sends the message that you don't actually think you are the reason for the confusion, and that you don't intend to improve or change the way you conduct yourself.
You then get caught up trying to blame the other guy for anonymously posting on the web rather than creating a conflict with you. This shows that you aren't necessarily concerned with how you ruined somebody's day and how to prevent yourself from doing it in the future, but rather you are just concerned about your reputation and keeping it as private as possible.
Rather than just sticking to an apology for your wrong acts, you get wrapped up in all the ways you could have avoided the unwanted exposure. This seems like you just lack the ability to filter your different emotions, or you are mentally wired to be sociopathic. The impression I get is that you get so caught up in your wants (your sense of entitlement?), that you under appreciate the obligations that you have to other people in the civilized society we cohabit. The real world has higher expectations of how you should treat those around you than an internet forum such as TL has.
Unfortunately, your apology gave little confidence to those who read it that you will be more respectful of those people you come into contact with, either offline or online.
The easy way out was to get more information from the person whose seat you stole, or the people around you, so as to avoid the whole event from happening in the first place rather than assuming you were entitled. Unfortunately you botched that, and you botched the public apology, which was the second easiest way out. At this point you've temporarily screwed yourself, and have hurt Fnatic and NASL at least a little bit by association (unless you believe that any publicity is good publicity). Looks like you're going to have to earn peoples respect the long, hard way.
On August 03 2011 23:20 zaii wrote: liquidgaga who?
Also about the seats, add anymore seats and the fire marshal will shut down the event, it's been said over and over again.
As I am local to the Anaheim area, I've seen that same hall hold 5X to 6X the number of seats it held for MLG, so there needs to be some dimension to your statement.
I've no doubt that in the configuration MLG chose, they were not permitted to place more seats in the hall. But that's a configuration issue that's within their control, not an arbitrary situation that MLG had no ability to affect.
I'm not QQ'ing on MLG, I think they create a great event, but I just wanted to make it clear that they were not powerless to create a configuration that was more spectator friendly with more seats. In my opinion, this is really one of the last major hurdles MLG needs to overcome to truly make their events World Class.
I feel this is less feeling bad about doing it and more feeling bad about being caught doing it. In short: damage control.
I can't reconcile how you can walk into a packed venue, see two empty front row seats with belongings left there, and somehow think its acceptable to take them. I perused the thread, but I did not read every post in the 17 pages; that said, the only argument I saw that supported seat stealing was that sometimes people would leave and not come back. Obviously, they came back. It's unacceptable to me that you would feel you are simply entitled to steal front row seats without even stopping to ask the person why two "spectators" were in "VIP" seats.
On August 05 2011 13:01 Craton wrote: I feel this is less feeling bad about doing it and more feeling bad about being caught doing it. In short: damage control.
I can't reconcile how you can walk into a packed venue, see two empty front row seats with belongings left there, and somehow think its acceptable to take them. I perused the thread, but I did not read every post in the 17 pages; that said, the only argument I saw that supported seat stealing was that sometimes people would leave and not come back. Obviously, they came back. It's unacceptable to me that you would feel you are simply entitled to steal front row seats without even stopping to ask the person why two "spectators" were in "VIP" seats.
It's easy to go back and say that in hindsight when you know not only two biased versions of the event, but the whole identities of both parties involved and the outcome. People make mistakes every single day that make them go "I can't believe I did that, it was so obvious!" or "Wow, I totally missed that one."
I'm not trying to defend Xeris here but try to be a little impartial - It's really easy to solve the puzzle of "Why there were 2 empty seats" when you know the seats were originally reserved for two contest winners that left their seats for the bathroom. From Xeris' perspective, he probably didn't even know said puzzle was there to begin with. Ever hear the phrase: "Sometimes it's better to just not ask questions." I think we should all calm down here.
I'm neither supporting nor defending the case against Xeris, but I think this whole thing got blown way out of proportion. We honestly don't know exactly what happened, nor do we know what went through the minds of either party (particularly Xeris') at the time of the altercation. Perhaps the contest winners should have explained that they were contest winners or gotten an MLG staff member to come and explain to Xeris what the situation was, instead of getting some hired security guard that (from what the story indicates) had no idea or didn't care what was going on.
Even if Xeris did douche it up a bit, it doesn't excuse the a lot of the extreme reactions. I'm not saying what he did was proper, but we're just as bad if we're screaming obscenities at him and telling him what a bad person he is. It really sucks that those two contest winners lost their seats, but at the end of the day that's all that happened. Xeris didn't mug them, he didn't beat them up, and he didn't steal their girlfriends. He took their seats. That's it. So let's not blow this any more out of proportion.
There's an obvious misunderstanding going on here, and Xeris' offer of buying them tickets for the next MLG was a pretty nice gesture. He definitely didn't have to do it, and could have still had the same reaction that many people did to him. At the end of the day, I think we all learned something from this, so let's stop the hate already.
On August 06 2011 01:10 Haemonculus wrote: Is this what passes for ESPORRTSSS drama these days?
Shame!
I know right? We need more wasted and high progamers getting involved in drug deals, car thefts, overdoses and sex scandals. ESPORTS, we know drama.
Seriously part of me is glad that ESPORTS hasn't gotten as far as having OD'd gamers or gamers dying to binge gaming and all we have to quarrel about is who stole whose seats. *knocks on wood*
Like I tell my mama, I may be grinding SC2 until 2 AM but at least I ain't doing weed.
On August 06 2011 01:10 Haemonculus wrote: Is this what passes for ESPORRTSSS drama these days?
Shame!
I know right? We need more wasted and high progamers getting involved in drug deals, car thefts, overdoses and sex scandals. ESPORTS, we know drama.
Seriously part of me is glad that ESPORTS hasn't gotten as far as having OD'd gamers or gamers dying to binge gaming and all we have to quarrel about is who stole whose seats. *knocks on wood*
Like I tell my mama, I may be grinding SC2 until 2 AM but at least I ain't doing weed.
After reading this thread, and if I were to ever attend one of these events in the future, I'm wearing the most god awful shittiest pants I can find and soaking my chair with a water bottle full of iodine and used chewing gum every time I get up. Sitting back in it won't be a problem for me. Sounds like a zoo.
Xeris, back in 2007 at WCG Canada nationals for BW, I stayed with you and others of team light at Mitch's house and you made a really good pork steak for me on his barbeque. Your okay in my book.
On August 06 2011 03:36 Horrde wrote: After reading this thread, and if I were to ever attend one of these events in the future, I'm wearing the most god awful shittiest pants I can find and soaking my chair with a water bottle full of iodine and used chewing gum every time I get up. Sitting back in it won't be a problem for me. Sounds like a zoo.
Xeris, back in 2007 at WCG Canada nationals for BW, I stayed with you and others of team light at Mitch's house and you made a really good pork steak for me on his barbeque. Your okay in my book.
Either he is unlucky with many coincidental incidents against him or he's a real prick. Due to various censorship measures, i feel obliged to say he is unlucky with many coincidental incidents against him and he is not a prick.