|
I had this idea after finishing sc2 beta and bought the game... We might need a new system/type of damage or what ever its called and here is my observation that i want to share with you all:
First of all, air units in sc2 stack while they are attacking. If you control 5 phoenix and right click on an overlord, they will stack on each other as a circle with the radius of its range. Same goes to viking, banshee, muta etc. These stacking make the area unit where they stacked on became the "area with a high DPS". This means that on a 4x4 squares units in game, the dps will be much higher with air units stacking compare to grounds. For example you can see this through out the relationship between 50 mutas and 100 stalkers engaging assuming 100 stalkers will win 50 mutas in a straight up fight. The mutas could be stacked together causing an area with high DPS, This 1 single area then will engage a small part of the 100 area of non stacking stalkers and took out that stalkers area with minimum loses. This is because the rest of the stalkers are simply out of range.
another good example would be any relationship between range and melee units: marines vs zerglings, marauder vs zealots, roach vs zealots. As the number goes up to stack in a max range ball area(mean inside a group of unit every single unit could reach the melee enemy.), the range units becomes much more efficient compare to the melee as their area could deal more damage overtime than melee units.
Now if you still have any idea what am i talking about, continue below, else call me crazy and leave.
From that perspective, i can start examine some of relationship in Protoss match up:
+ Blink stalkers vs roach lings: as a certain point, the number stalkers will be high enough to fill up the choke that its standing on. This given the perfect micro, stalkers vs roach lings battle becomes the battle between phoenix and muta as you have seen in a youtube video in beta where Mutas constantly chasing a phoenix and get out ranged while the phoenix is moving shoot. As a result, 1 phoenix killed 200/200 mutas. This means that given 2 areas of similar DPS generated, the area with higher range and mobility will win the battle even if it has less DPS than the other by a small factors. This is how i explained +3 blink stalkers won vs hydra ling in a certain famous game in the last MLG.
+ marines, thor, and radius: the radius of units means a ton of thing: it cost less area to fit it in a ball. Meaning a group of marines always has a higher dps than a thor given that they cost about the same area to stand on. So if a group of undead marines got attacked by zerglings vs an undead thor vs same zerglings count, the marines will take out the lings first. This often explained how efficient MMM is in TvP match up: given an area to stand on, Terran can always fit more small range units than Protoss: an area to fit 1 stalker could fit 3~5 marines which cause the marines area has higher DPS. With the concussive shell upgrades to lower the P mobility (aka. no more micro), MMM demolished same cost gateway units based on their higher dps area and mobility (stim).
+ When you think about the definition of "area generating higher damage", it could be the opposite of AoE damage that we all familiar with: one is how to have more units in 1 area to be more efficient, one is to kill more units in a small area. This explain how late game AoE is very efficient vs MMM, fungal or ultra or storm or colossus, even a FFs early game.
I dont have much time to work on this but i think i post it anyway. At high level stuff like this really matter to theory craft out new build and i think i should keep it in my blog in case 1 day i forgot 
 
|
Something really neat to think about.
I don't really think anything should change.
Did you see when boxer dropped 8 marines on a 1x1 hilltop on taldarim?
This is also the specific premise behind spreading out in a arc in a lot of ways.
The area that is in attack range.
|
You stumbled upon a very basic rule in RTS. It is how they work. It is how it has always worked in broodwar as well.
This is not new, only new to you. 
|
Braavos36363 Posts
it's not really theorycraft or high level at all, its just basic RTS mechanics
in BW this damage/surfacearea/space relationship controls the entire game, its why lurkers are used vs MM and why muta harass is so good
|
With regards to air units, when they stack yes there is a high concentration of DPS but it also makes them vulnerable to the spell casters. When you fungal a flock of 20+ mutas and theres nothing they can do about it, it's amazing. Basically any form of place or AOE spell is more effective because the units clump.
Melee units, yeah they arn't very good when you get into the larger numbers of units, unless you have a specific specialised unit like the baneling designed to destroy as many units as possible at once.
I think it actually works very well as it is now, air can clump but can be punished for it. Melee vs range can be very bad but when do you see a only zealot army? (i mean army, not something like 4-5 zealots)
|
Hunter Thompson once called politics the art of controlling your environment.
You could say the same about Starcraft.
|
I will say this though, since my other post seemed like a gut shot. It is necessary for you, if you want to improve, to realize these things on your own, as you are doing. Other people can tell you these ideas all they want, but if you haven't realized them for yourself, you'll never quite get them.
So, good for you. You've gained a level :p
edit: subj/verb agreement :/
|
On July 06 2011 23:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
it's not really theorycraft or high level at all, its just basic RTS mechanics
in BW this damage/surfacearea/space relationship controls the entire game, its why lurkers are used vs MM and why muta harass is so good
Muta/scourge fights were almost completly based around controlling tons of units in two little balls back in BW, this isn't new
|
This is just a solid core mechanic of rts games along with dps retention, burst damage, and a million other factors in a battle.
|
hmm, thnx for the feedback guys. Didnt want to change anything! just wanted to point that out. its clearly a corner of RTS mechanic where no one has ever touch. I have never come across this definition anywhere else so i just have to pointed that out.
|
On July 07 2011 13:13 NB wrote:
hmm, thnx for the feedback guys. Didnt want to change anything! just wanted to point that out. its clearly a corner of RTS mechanic where no one has ever touch. I have never come across this definition anywhere else so i just have to pointed that out.
Didn't everyone just say its been touched on multiple times already.
|
On July 07 2011 14:53 HydraLF wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2011 13:13 NB wrote:
hmm, thnx for the feedback guys. Didnt want to change anything! just wanted to point that out. its clearly a corner of RTS mechanic where no one has ever touch. I have never come across this definition anywhere else so i just have to pointed that out. Didn't everyone just say its been touched on multiple times already.
if you can link me to any thread that talked about this i would be grateful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
