Road to master and ZvP rage!

On June 30 2011 15:01 HomicidaL wrote:
While when I play vs a Terran, I feel when his Tanks pull up my muta on the way. And we are both microing marines vs Mutas to protect his tanks, and Also micros banelings into his marines and my oppenent is stimming his rines and running into seige range to elimate the banelings. It just seem we are both taking a equal amount of apm/effort in our engagements during most of the game.

On June 30 2011 15:11 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:


Terran has it much harder in terms of micro. I play both races at masters level and mutalingbane isn't even close to the amount of micro required for tank marine. You can easily A-move with mutalingbane and it can work out somewhat respectably if you catch terran off-guard let's say (even if you don't it can work out), however try A-moving with tank marine, it won't even be a close battle vs mutalingbane.

On June 30 2011 15:16 HomicidaL wrote:



Yeah I agree with terran being the most micro intensive race, you can tell with what the koreons are able to do with them, very high skill ceiling using Terran.

What to you do in dealing with the Deathball ZvP at the masters level?

On June 30 2011 15:19 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:


Lol that's why I switched to Terran . Not a fan of that matchup (didn't like ZvZ either).

On June 30 2011 15:31 sechkie wrote:
as a master toss player, I would like to say that the scariest thing to me about the zerg gameplay is their unpredictability and ability to switch with spawn larvae. They can all of a sudden spawn 20 roaches off of 2 hatcheries and amove them in with 30 speedlings following in right behind them. These tactics are not cheesy at all and should be incorporated into every zerg instead of just drone drone drone. And for deathball strategies?

2 units:
infestor > fungal
baneling drops

Scariest thing for any protoss to deal with as the multitask and micro required to deal with these are much higher than most toss are used too.

ps: if you're having trouble with a turtle toss with cannons, whats stopping u from punishing that with drops? mass expanding? go try these things.

On June 30 2011 15:50 Treemonkeys wrote:
I'm about the same MMR as you maybe, I go muta every game against toss, works very well. Stay on two base, get 3 or 4 gas at 40 supply (depending on if you need ling speed early or not). Get lair as soon as you have 100 gas, keep building drones and spend all excess minerals on spine crawlers. Get 3 queens early so you have one dedicated to creep spread. Soon as lair finishes start the spire and a macro hatch, keep minerals and gas even while building drones and spine crawlers. When spire finishes you should have enough for 12-13 mutas, head straight for his probe line.

Avoid taking damage at all costs! Just kill and harass wherever possible, if he doesn't do a good job of defending your mutas keep building more otherwise get a baneling nest and infestation pit while massing lings from your 3 hatches using all 3 queens to spawn larva. The main purpose of muta is to keep him in his base while you take your 3rd, if he takes a 3rd you have to deny it or punish him hard with the mutas for spreading too thin. Target probes or tech structures, getting robo bay is really nice, but even just poking at pylons is good. The idea is to keep him contained and force canons but sometimes the mutas will win the game. As you are massing lings rally them outside of your base so you can flank at your spine crawlers if he goes 6 gate or just decides to attack, make sure you hit with your muta and ling at the same time and use muta to focus down any colossus. Also after mutas finish building (they should use up all your gas) get +1 melee and +1 air attack with the next 200 gas. Get a ton of banelings and baneling speed when the nest finishes, against a good toss who can defend muta you shouldn't build more than the initial 12-13 muta.

It might sound really disorganized but it flows really well even though I don't have the timings perfect, it is extremely strong for me at high diamond and I have been matched against master's players and won decisively with it a few times already. It really depends a lot on how well he deals with the muta, and how careful you are at not letting them take damage. Just deny his 3rd while getting your own and fully saturating with a single round of drones when you feel it is a safe time and move your spine crawlers out where they can defend your 3rd or the middle of the map, sometimes it's also good to take a 4th just for gas. If you need to get hive as soon as infestation pit finishes and then get brood lords to finish him off. Muta/ling/bling is extremely strong against toss - also with your muta you can often run the stalkers around and then snipe all of his sentries when they are separated from the stalkers. Just use muta/ling/bling to keep him contained and then add in infestors and brood lords as needed for the killing blow. Also make sure to get crackling upgrade as soon as hive finishes and keep getting melee upgrades all the way to level 3.

They only thing I have come across that it isn't strong against is double stargate, other than that I don't really lose outside of early losses like 4 gate, fast DT's, etc. It's also weak if they avoid the spine crawlers with blink or warp prism but I have only had one person actually go warp prism and I barely manage to hold it off and win. The mutas pop out just after the observer gets to your base (usually) so he doesn't have much time to react to the mutas or your mass spine crawler defense.

I can show you a few replays if you want, this is my strongest matchup right now easily thanks to this build. I started off going ling/bling/infestor against toss but I decided to get mutas first as a way to be aggressive without going all in and it has worked out extremely well.