• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:32
CET 15:32
KST 23:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)1Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win2RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? [BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D) soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft What happened to TvZ on Retro?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1882 users

Design Your Own Tournament!

Blogs > VGhost
Post a Reply
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3616 Posts
June 24 2011 00:38 GMT
#1
Or, "The GSL Format is Sweet, and Other Thoughts"

MLG's bracket sucks. OSL prelims suck. GSL needs to take more time for each season, yo. MSL groups are dumb. NASL wastes time. All complaints we've heard before, right? Every tournament on the face of the earth has problems - and everybody thinks they know what to do to fix it.

Well, I'm not a professional tournament organizer (though I have run tournaments before, for battlereports.com, SC2GG, and the Hillsdale College Chess Club). What I am is someone who analyzes things - all sorts of things - for fun, so I'm here to introduce you to all the things you have to decide when running a tournament. We're going to start by examining what's common to every tournament ever - or as mathematicians and logicians say, let's define our terms.

Any tournament or even as a whole we are going to call a League. (Major League Gaming, OnGameNet Starleague, IGN ProLeague.)
Every league consists of one to several stages.
Each stage is characterized by using a specific format. A format is a method for deciding which players move on. Common formats are single elimination, where winners move on; double elimination, which is like single elim but losers get a second chance; round robin, in which all players play each other; and Swiss, where you play someone with similar results as often as possible.
Due to the size of most tournaments, most early stages are often broken down into group play, where a limited number of players advance to the next stage.
Results of any given stage's groups are usually used for seeding, where some players are given a chance to skip preliminary stages (moving "up" in the league); and relegation, where players are required to start over, or move to a less-prestigious ranking (moving "down" in the league).
Any given stage can be considered either a playoff stage or a scheduled stage. A good rule of thumb is if losing a single match in a stage eliminates a player, it is a playoff stage; if elimination is only done on some total of results, it is a scheduled stage. (Exception: Double-elimination has to be considered a playoff stage, even though it takes two games to get eliminated.)
Many stages will have multiple rounds: in some formats each round will bring eliminations while in others the eliminations may be postponed.

For an example, let's evaluate the Bacchus 2010 OSL's format.

OSL Preliminary: A single-elimination playoff stage in twenty-five groups, open to any licensed progamers (except seeds from previous tournaments).
OSL Round of 36: A single-elimination playoff stage in twelve groups. 24 winners from prelims advanced to here; 12 group losers from the previous tournament were seeded in a second round. 12 winners advanced to groups, while the remaining 24 players were relegated to prelims.
OSL groups: A round-robin scheduled stage in four groups. The top two players in each group advance, while the losers are relegated to the Round of 36 (or in this case the ODT).
OSL bracket: A single elimination playoff stage of eight players. The top four players are seeded into the next OSL groups, while the other four are relegated to the Round of 36 (or ODT).

It is also instructive to look at the elimination ratios at each stage. In general it is obvious that the higher the proportion of eliminations, the relatively better are the remaining players. (This is the fundamental reason preliminaries eliminate players so fast: the average professional player simply isn't a very good player by the standards of absolute excellence). At the same time, it is best to give as many very good players as possible to best chances of continuing. This calls for balance.

Preliminaries: 132:25, or approximately 5:1
Round of 36: 3:1
Group Stage (16): 2:1
Bracket Stage/Final Playoff: 8:1

In general, 3:1 seems to be an ideal elimination ratio when moving from one stage to another, until we reach a point at which the number is small enough to require a change to 2:1. Anything less than 2:1 would be essentially meaningless. (Consider the apparent waste of time of the MLG group stage, which is 1:1, for example, as it eliminates no one and is used for seeding only. The only thing to be said for it is that every game "matters" as it means less of a gauntlet later.)

To support my 3:1 contention I would like to compare the playoff pictures of the Big Four in American sports. The NFL has two stages, a schedule open to its 32 teams after which the top 12 are taken to the next stage. This ratio is 8:3, or not quite 3:1. Normally there are approximately that many teams that "deserve" to progress further (although the selection process sometimes forces selection of a bad team instead of a good one). The NFL playoffs are probably the most-watched four weeks of television in the American year. MLB has a schedule open to its 30 teams, from which 8 progress to the playoff stage. This ratio is 15:4, or almost 4:1, and is mandated by the logistics of series play. Almost always the 8 teams selected are good. An expansion to 10 teams is plausible in terms of quality but would add two weeks at least to an already over-extended schedule.

On the other hand, the NHL has 30 teams and sends 16 to the playoff stage: as a result, not only is the playoff stage extended into June (which is silly, when you think about it), the first rounds are almost always bad. Similarly, the NBA has 30 teams and sends 16 to the playoffs: not only are the resulting games bad, and playoffs over-extended, teams make the playoffs with losing records, every year.

Coming back to Starcraft, the Shinhan Proleague last year had 12 teams in the schedule, and advanced 6 to the playoffs. The last few were not very good. This year, with 10 teams on the schedule, the league has 6 advancing: seed six, and maybe five as well, is probably going to be taken by a team with a losing record. Which is still ridiculous.

Finally, we have to consider the issue of timing. It is evident that prestige increases with uniqueness. The Proleague has grown in importance as its length has increased and the schedule has stabilized to a yearly one. MLG holds events every two months or so, within the structure of a yearly season. In contrast, the Korean individual leagues are a little odd. The MSL and OSL seasons come in, on average, at just under 3 a year, and occasionally that feels rushed. The GSL, in ten months, has held 7 different seasons - 3 Opens, 3 Code S/A tournaments, and the GSL Super Tournament. That's ridiculous, and doesn't include the team leagues, which were even more farcical, so far.

From all of this, I am going to establish a somewhat arbitrary rule of thumb: play as few seasons as reasonably possible per year, and keep a regular schedule to it. (GOM hasn't learned: they're trying to cram another tournament into a single month, and run a 12-team league in about three months, including playoffs. I've found the switch amazing, considering these are the same people who ran 3 GOM Classic seasons in 2 years. But I digress.)

Last, we need to consider who gets to play. Even tournaments with "Open" qualifiers usually set restrictions - B+ or Masters or similar. Leagues with open qualifiers also almost always have a maximum bracket size, for obvious reasons. TLPD gives 100 Korean players with an ELO rating; there are 256 ELO-rated "International" players, which includes a number of Koreans. For the sake of argument I would say that an ideal individual league pool can't start with more than about 150 (compare the OSL prelim). The GSL has 64 players at any given time: the prelims have included another 20-30 on various teams. MLG of course starts with its huge 256-man open bracket and 16 pooled players for a total of 272 - but we all know that a lot of the open players are, how shall we say, bad.

To me, the GSL is actually leading innovation right now - except in their "we're a minor league trying to get attention by constant hype" scheduling - and their most important innovation in ESPORTS is the introduction to the Starcraft community of an actual minor league. Further, the GSL is the only league I know of that actively practices relegation: players are given the chance to move up and down as they or others improve, and even to move in from outside the tournament. The whole thing is illustrated here:

[image loading]

So what I am going to do is take the GSL as a model and, throwing in all the things I've been talking about for pages, improve on it as I design my own ideal league.

The GSL Code S begins with a scheduled stage. This is excellent - and it should be expanded. I would like to put 48 players in the top group. I would have eight groups of six each. These groups would play round-robin: the top two in each group advanced to a playoff, the middle two retain status. The bottom finisher in the group is transferred to the minor league, which is formatted almost exactly the same way. The 5th place plays a minor league group's 2nd finisher, while each #1 in the minor league group advances to the major league. In addition, the eight group #1s are put in a minor league championship playoff. The sixteen players at the bottom of the minor league are relegated as seeds to a tournament open to qualified players (on the Korean scene, this would likely be players from qualified teams: in the US my hypothetical league might have a similar relationship with teams, ideally). Matches would be Bo3. Placement within groups would be on record, with game score as a tie-breaker.

After that, the 16-man major league playoff would be standard. For the playoff, the bracket would be done so A#1 plays B#2, B#1 plays C#2, etc. Bracket is designed so no players from the same group can meet before the final:

A1
B2|
|---|
C1| |
D2 |
|---|
E1 | |
F2| | |
|---| |
G1| |
H2 |
|_____
|
F1 |
G2| |
|---| |
D1| | |
E2 | |
|---|
B1 |
C2| |
|---|
H1|
A2

Playoff games would be all Bo5 with a Bo7 final.


The next season groups would be re-seeded by overall records as follows: #1 finishers stay in the group. Ties here are decided by playoff results. Players advancing from the relegation matches are seeded by record in reverse, with any advancing minor leaguers automatically getting lower seeds than returning major leaguers. #2 group finishers are then seeded in so #16 (overall) is in the #1 group, #15 in the #2, etc. Automatic minor league qualifiers are seeded as the 33-40 seeds. So the regrouping for the next season would be:

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8
16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25
33* 34* 35* 36* 37* 38* 39* 40*
[Minor League Advancing]-----------[Major League Returning]
* Minor League #1 Advancing


Minor league reseeding would be similar. Demoted major league players receive the 1-8 seeds, while losers of the relegation matches would get the 9-16. Winners of the qualifier (16) would get the minor league's 32-48 seeds.

Any players resigning from the league would be replaced as follows:
Major league player: The top minor league player remaining is promoted, seeding adjusted accordingly. Repeat as necessary.
Minor league player: Minor league seeding is adjusted, extra spot is added to the qualifiers.

The scheduling could work as follows:

3 matches a day of Major league, 3 of Minor (cast at a less prime-time position?), 4 days a week. (Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday?) This would take 10 weeks to work through the round-robin stage. (Alternatively you could move to 6 and 6 and take five weeks, or play every day at 3 and 3 and take three weeks (20 days) total. You can come up with your own system. Given the tendency for replay-casting and online leagues that SC2 has given us, the game scheduling almost wouldn't matter, though of course we all want live casts eventually.)

The minor league 8-man playoff would take 3 weeks. The final would be the week of the major league semis, but obviously happen on a different day (or as a preview?)
At some point, I would say the weekend after the major league final, the relegation matches would be played, probably over the course of two days. Simply Bo5/Bo7 matches of #5 major seeds vs #2 minor seeds.

So: 10 weeks schedule + 4 weeks playoff + 1 week relegation is a 15 week season, or about 3 1/2 months. The schedule could actually be extended, especially to work around other leagues. I would be planning to run this (hypothetical) league in a twice-yearly season.

Money: Obviously this league requires a decent commitment from players, and envisions a scenario with around a hundred players with stable careers. I believe the esports scene requires team leagues for stability, so I'd assume that most players would be getting the majority of money from a team salary. At the same time, in addition to the obvious playoff pay-outs, I think it would be ideal for an extensive league like this to pay per game, $50-$100 per win (or similar), with a possible small payout for a loss, for time spent etc.

League Format Thoughts: The basic concept can be used with smaller numbers of players as need requires. 48 per division (major/minor) is a handy number to work with, as I'll explain. (24 is also possible for 48 total.) 36, 18, or 12 could work but would require either smaller groups or staggered (think NFL; if you don't know what that is, think OSL Ro36 and you'll get the basic idea) playoffs, or both. Any division size has to be divisible by 6 in order to get both the 3-tiered playoff/retention/relegation structure and a plausible playoff. Any division size not divisible by 8 will result in a staggered playoff.

This could also be used - although without the minor league qualifier, probably - a team league format, in which case you're looking at probably around 24 teams, 36 max. Without a qualifier, it would be possible to have a two-tiered minor division, so for instance a 12 team major and 8 team minor setup.

*****
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
GigaFlop
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1146 Posts
June 24 2011 00:58 GMT
#2
Very insightful blog. If i ever try to host a tourney, though, I'll just stick to double elimination.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ "Shift-Q oftentimes makes a capital Q" - Day[9] || iNcontrol - Alligator from heaven = ^
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
Qualifier #1
WardiTV1016
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko398
LamboSC2 101
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 3036
Rain 2593
Bisu 2122
Hyuk 879
Larva 803
Soma 668
BeSt 549
Stork 466
ZerO 450
Mini 261
[ Show more ]
firebathero 239
Light 225
Hyun 223
hero 221
Snow 213
Killer 191
Pusan 120
Rush 116
Barracks 70
Aegong 50
Sharp 46
Leta 44
sorry 41
soO 40
Mind 35
ToSsGirL 35
ajuk12(nOOB) 34
sas.Sziky 34
Backho 28
Terrorterran 21
Yoon 17
Free 16
HiyA 13
zelot 12
SilentControl 11
Rock 11
Bale 7
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
Gorgc4002
singsing2609
qojqva1866
420jenkins94
XcaliburYe78
League of Legends
Reynor83
Trikslyr26
Counter-Strike
fl0m3034
zeus1836
olofmeister1243
oskar80
markeloff47
Other Games
B2W.Neo1262
hiko516
crisheroes390
Fuzer 325
Hui .245
Pyrionflax172
ArmadaUGS103
Mew2King101
QueenE99
XaKoH 19
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream241
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1531
• WagamamaTV402
League of Legends
• Nemesis1983
• Jankos1766
• TFBlade478
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
10h 28m
Replay Cast
18h 28m
Wardi Open
21h 28m
OSC
22h 28m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
OSC
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.