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After todays LR thread of Nestea vs. Top i am really confused.
+ Show Spoiler [Top vs Nestea GSL Super Tournament] +The whole Nestea vs. Top series is pretty intresting. In all games Top is going for builds that have to do damage in the early game.
In Game 1 he goes for 2Rax Bunker rush and does significant amounts of Damage to Nestea.
In game 2 he kills 8 drones and forces around 6 spore crawlers i think. Essentially killing 14 Drones :O
He then proceeds to loose the game to Baneling Landmines, which is lucky for Nestea. If Top scans them they do nothing and if he does not they win him the game. So Nestea gets lucky in that regard, makes no mistake and claws his way back into the game. Top lost that game more, than Nestea won it.
Game 3 was Nestea just well ... going for the worst wall-off in History? He decides to protect the small gap between his ramp and a EvoChamber with 1 Zergling vs. Hellions.
Let that sink in!
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Hellions get into his Base and kill 10 Drones. Top then decides not to fuck up and Nestea can't catch up, cause Landmines are not possible due to no obvious points to set them. Also Top pushed really nicely and continued to Macro.
So concluding i would say, that Nestea deserved to loose, cause he was not handling early pressure well enough.
The main reason though, and why this Blog will be talking about Live Reports. Its really annoying to read things ranging from people claiming that the better player lost, Top just got lucky to Top should go die or fuck himself.
Seriously if you are upset that your favorite player lost, just you know, if you have to comment comment like a boss, example:
"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, why nestea, why?"
is you being upset, but
"Fuck you TOP, you undeserving piece of shit! He jsut got lucky and will loose next round!"
is you being a DICK and not the nice kind of Dick, that girls or guys(whomever you want to be into it) like, the kind of Dick you see in medical books about STDs.
So please stop being angry about your favorite player loosing and start being sad.
Just had to write this down somewhere,
ty for reading
 
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16935 Posts
Why didn't you just write this in the LR thread?
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Wanted to do that first, but then decided not to, did not want to rant there and am also not sure how valid my tactical analysis is.
Also this post does not belong in the live report threads because it has nothing to do with the games, tbh. And Life Report Threads should be about the games, i think.
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16935 Posts
I think you make a valid point.
And Live Report threads have really devolved to a point where they're pretty much just shouting contests. So you'd have been fine.
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Wish more people would complain in blog posts. Thanks!
-Bobwhiz
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On June 10 2011 00:13 Empyrean wrote:
I think you make a valid point.
And Live Report threads have really devolved to a point where they're pretty much just shouting contests. So you'd have been fine.
I wish I had been part of this community when they were good 
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The LR was good for the first 90 pages, where ChickenLips did subbed-image LR'ing. Wish more people contributed like him.
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Yeah, the LR thread today was fucking awful. I really really hate reading those things, but I feel bad if I post in a thread without reading at least some of the replies.
Sometimes I would kill to have mod powers. To be able to ban balance whiners ... god that must be incredible.
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the summary you made seems pretty accurate
unfortunately you can't make all people realize that they are not objective...sadly neither in rl nor (or especially) on the internet.
but at least tl has an outstanding moderation 
On June 10 2011 00:21 bobwhiz wrote:
The LR was good for the first 90 pages, where ChickenLips did subbed-image LR'ing. Wish more people contributed like him.
i think zocktol himself once made a good lr...can't remember though for which tournament it was...
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You should probably include this part:
The main reason though, and why this Blog will be talking about Live Reports. Its really annoying to read things ranging from people claiming that the better player lost, Top just got lucky to Top should go die or fuck himself.
in your spoilered section.
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On June 10 2011 01:17 zeru wrote:
I wish it was a bannable offense to say that <insert build> is cheese or all in when it's not. According to todays LR thread:
- 2 rax pressure bunker rush vs zerg is cheese and all in.
- Hellion banshee opening is cheese and all in
- Hellion expand opening is cheese and all in.
I can only wish for even stricter moderation, im not sure where all these clueless fools get their strange ideas from that every build is cheese and all in, but it needs to stop. Artosis contributing to the stupidity with his fanboyism for nestea isn't helping either.
I've actually started to care less about balance qq in LR threads now, the posts with completely dumb statements and false claims annoy me more.
I think in addition to what you've suggested- I propose bans/warnings for those who claim
"X counters Y
A counters B
C counters D"
This is the premise that SC is based around. Every Terran unit counters some Zerg unit and vice versa.
These people might be so bold as to make the following comment on a mirror matchup
"Banshees are so OP.
Why are voidrays so good against zealots?
Why must overlords be so slow!!"
Situational unhappiness with preferred player losing.
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The mentality gets pretty irritating in LR threads sometimes, filled with spam (to be fair sometimes I do this because I get caught up in the game - but the majority of the time I try to add something useful to my post - usually supply and what structures / units are being made), useless balance complaints, arguments about irrelevant things etc.
The most irritating thing is when a fan favourite loses to a player like TOP, a player who hasn't had his time in the spotlight. Nestea's defense in the early game in each match was less then stellar. The argument of TOP cheesing (which he didn't) is completely irrelevant. The players in the GSL play to win, they train, they practice builds specific to their opponent and they will do what it takes to win - whether or not the games are entertaining is an added bonus.
If it was a player like MKP or maybe even MMA (new fan favourite). I doubt he would have gotten one third of the hate that TOP received (sadly people would complain regardless of who is playing). Blind fanboyism is so frustrating to see, and even though I'm a big Nestea fan (who isn't) I can see that TOP deserved his win, he played well, kept constant pressure (PEOPLE MISTAKE THIS FOR CHEESE, pressuring your opponent is huge - if you let him get too comfortable it usually doesn't go well), didn't fall apart and stuck to his game plan and you could see from his reaction after the game it was a big deal for him so grats to him :D.
No player is invincible and people need to stop acting like taking games off players like Nestea can only be done by cheese and would be impossible in a straight up game.
oops sorta ranted sorry
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Isn't sports the king of irrationality?
I'm tired of having to act rationally and with logic when it comes to being a fan. Man, I'm cheering for 12-15 players who throw a leather ball around and into a basket and who share nothing more than the same metropolitan area that I live on their team's name. There is no logic behind that.
Every time the San Diego Chargers lose in the playoffs in football I always hope that the remaining teams suffer some sort of setback that allows them to advance to the Super Bowl by default. It makes no sense. I don't care. Nothing about sports makes sense anyway.
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On June 10 2011 03:10 kainzero wrote:
Isn't sports the king of irrationality?
I'm tired of having to act rationally and with logic when it comes to being a fan. Man, I'm cheering for 12-15 players who throw a leather ball around and into a basket and who share nothing more than the same metropolitan area that I live on their team's name. There is no logic behind that.
Every time the San Diego Chargers lose in the playoffs in football I always hope that the remaining teams suffer some sort of setback that allows them to advance to the Super Bowl by default. It makes no sense. I don't care. Nothing about sports makes sense anyway.
LR threads not really there for that though and I think thats one of the misconceptions where you just come in and cheer without really adding anything which is what Empyrean was referring to in a previous post saying that LR threads are devolving.
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On June 10 2011 03:26 SenorChang wrote:
LR threads not really there for that though and I think thats one of the misconceptions where you just come in and cheer without really adding anything which is what Empyrean was referring to in a previous post saying that LR threads are devolving.
it was kind of like a response to zocktol who said it's okay to be sad and disappointed at your own player but not okay to be angry at another player.
but you have to remember that LR threads are a bygone relic of when we didn't have streams and we had to rely on people actually reporting to get live news about a match.
now we have VODs and streams so it doesn't really matter as much
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On June 10 2011 06:23 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 03:26 SenorChang wrote:
LR threads not really there for that though and I think thats one of the misconceptions where you just come in and cheer without really adding anything which is what Empyrean was referring to in a previous post saying that LR threads are devolving. it was kind of like a response to zocktol who said it's okay to be sad and disappointed at your own player but not okay to be angry at another player. but you have to remember that LR threads are a bygone relic of when we didn't have streams and we had to rely on people actually reporting to get live news about a match. now we have VODs and streams so it doesn't really matter as much
Sure Sports in and off itself are irrational and emotional. Nonetheless it does not mean that i can't control myself. I played football a long time and every time a member of the opposing time acted like a douche, i wanted to punch him in the face. I never did though, because i can control myself. That's all i'm asking of people to not just write what they want to write and hit the Post-Button, but rather to think ... then maybe write something ... think again ... Post.
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As always it is frustrating to see a player of talent like Nestea lose against a build order. Certainly, Nestea hadn't responded properly and clearly did not play to the fullest of his potential, and it can be quite frustrating for fans like myself to see him to builds that I face every day on the ladder. Nevertheless, TOP's micro and follow-ups were perfect, and he deserved the win. The most frustrating thing for fan of the Zerg race is that it really doesn't shine in the early game, unlike terran. There are no 'cute' options for the zerg to pressure, except make a shitload of 1 or 2 unit and attack. You'll never see Zerg take games because of build orders (vs T or P) with the exception of the RARE successful 6 pool. And so, Zerg fans feel cheated every time a ZvX ends (theoretically) in the first 6 minutes.
Clearly TOP's builds were superb yet you have to understand why it is insanely frustrating to see Nestea vs a Build, rather than see Nestea lose vs TOP. You know what I mean?
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On June 11 2011 01:29 Steel wrote:
As always it is frustrating to see a player of talent like Nestea lose against a build order. Certainly, Nestea hadn't responded properly and clearly did not play to the fullest of his potential, and it can be quite frustrating for fans like myself to see him to builds that I face every day on the ladder. Nevertheless, TOP's micro and follow-ups were perfect, and he deserved the win. The most frustrating thing for fan of the Zerg race is that it really doesn't shine in the early game, unlike terran. There are no 'cute' options for the zerg to pressure, except make a shitload of 1 or 2 unit and attack. You'll never see Zerg take games because of build orders (vs T or P) with the exception of the RARE successful 6 pool. And so, Zerg fans feel cheated every time a ZvX ends (theoretically) in the first 6 minutes.
Clearly TOP's builds were superb yet you have to understand why it is insanely frustrating to see Nestea vs a Build, rather than see Nestea lose vs TOP. You know what I mean?
I'm saying that Nestea played bad. That has nothing to do with Balance. He sees 3 Hellions and decides to close the most important part of his wall with a zergling ... that has nothing to do with the early game of Zerg, Terran or Toss. It's just a bad decision.
And as i stated before, i think that you can still restrain yourself from insulting Top, i'm pretty sure you can control your language in the real world, why not do it on the interwebs?
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EPT
