• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:46
CEST 03:46
KST 10:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1937 users

Ladder Report 2.3

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-03 01:13:38
June 02 2011 22:19 GMT
#1
I've got a lot going on in my life right now. Moving out, trying to meet people, live more healthily, find a good job, etc. But I did manage to find time to play some games recently.

1v1:

Zerg(29 games)
(14)ZvZ: 7-7 50.0%
(8)ZvP: 4- 4 50.0%
(7)ZvT: 5- 2 71.4%

16-13 55.1%

This Season:
Zerg(71 games)
(28)ZvZ: 16-12 57.1%
(30)ZvP: 18-12 60.0%
(13)ZvT: 8- 5 61.5%

42-29 59.1%

I've noticed a general trend in the players I've been playing against, namely that they are starting to expand earlier and get 3rd bases quickly and safely. I'm running into stronger openings too. After that winning streak I had last report, I'm getting matched up against much tougher opponents on average. Also, I finally got promoted to masters once they fixed whatever bug was going on.

ZvZ:
Okay, my last report went quite in-depth regarding a big problem with my ZvZ, and I've since tried several ways to fix it, and none have worked. I've been racking my brain over this. The general problem is that my build is a bit on the "cheesy" side, which I'm not necessarily against, since IMO it's pretty strong (or at least that was my opinion). The problem is that if my opponent gets a baneling nest before 5:00, my attack is pretty much doomed, and further, I have no way to defend his imminent attack. I've tried sim-cities and sunks and backstabs, and sometimes they have worked, but they've been working less and less lately, because they just aren't good answers. And baneling nest by 5:00 is pretty much standard for 14/14 speedling/baneling AFAIK.

I have one more potential solution. Normally, building a roach warren upon scouting their baneling nest just doesn't work, because it would take just a bit too long. But one option is to build the roach warren at around 5 minutes, get a scouting ling in to see if there's a baneling nest building, cancel and continue with my build if there isn't, or get roaches out in time to help defend the banelings if there is. But I honestly don't think this is a very good solution either.

I may have to give up my build and adopt something stronger.

Any suggestions? What ZvZ builds do you guys use and why?

ZvT:
I've played several custom games with my practice partner who plays Terran, and it has definitely improved my ZvT. I'm still a bit shaky, because as I mentioned before, it seems like every game is unique, trying to figure out what my opponent is gonna throw at me, and if it's going to include a dozen SCVs with it or not. But still I have gained some confidence in this matchup.

Recently I'm really liking roach/baneling to deal with tank/marine compositions. Banelings force the marines to run (and kill some) while the roaches clean up the tanks and chase down marines after. What seems really great is that, if I win convincingly on the field, I can just steamroll right in. Banelings can blow up walls/bunkers, and the roaches can just be too much to stop. Of course, even if I go roach/baneling, I still need to get a spire to deal with drops and to give myself a tech switch to muta/ling if they start to switch over to tank/marauder too heavily.

Another thing I've started doing is placing sunks in all my bases once I've got a strong 3+ base economy going. Even if I have a ball of mutas, Terrans are making use of dropping main and 3rd while advancing with their tank/marine line on the field, and the mutas just can't be everywhere at once. I can't split my mutas either, because they'll fall to easily trying to clean up drops. Drops really are just a pain in the ass. So the point of sunks is just to buy time to save my drones/hatch while I get something there to clean up the drop.

I really don't get why I don't run into many Terrans on ladder.

ZvP:
I've been running into stronger Protoss opponents as of late. 3base max -> push with good macro is giving me trouble. Sometimes, I'm unsure if my current plan of muta harass first into mass roach is all that great. The mutas are such a large investment. Admittedly, their goal is to harass, scout, and discourage colossi or immortal, but it just seems like I could have so many more roaches if I skipped that.

I'm gonna try out some new things in this matchup and see what feels right.

Questions, comments, and constructive criticism welcome.

*****
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
June 02 2011 22:31 GMT
#2
My ZvZ build, that almost always gets me to a macro game (my intended goal) is to do 14gas/14 pool. Get 100 gas and pull drones off. Expand with the first (4) lings out, keep drones off gas and when the first queen comes out immediately build a second queen. Then roach warren and two drones back on gas. This allows enough queens to block ramp in case of banes, fast roach warren should stop anything else and it gets an expo up pretty quick. This works pretty well at low masters, but your level might mean they know how to exploit it better, or have better control.

Anyway, try it out if it sounds good and let me know if I need to change it up to get higher

ZvP right now I am loving muta/ling/bling. Mutas help keep dps up if they forcefield and if they don't banes destroy most gateway armies. Plus I try to send some banes to mineral lines during big engagements since most people don't react fast enough to stop it.
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 02 2011 23:03 GMT
#3
On June 03 2011 07:31 imPERSONater wrote:
My ZvZ build, that almost always gets me to a macro game (my intended goal) is to do 14gas/14 pool. Get 100 gas and pull drones off. Expand with the first (4) lings out, keep drones off gas and when the first queen comes out immediately build a second queen. Then roach warren and two drones back on gas. This allows enough queens to block ramp in case of banes, fast roach warren should stop anything else and it gets an expo up pretty quick. This works pretty well at low masters, but your level might mean they know how to exploit it better, or have better control.

Anyway, try it out if it sounds good and let me know if I need to change it up to get higher

ZvP right now I am loving muta/ling/bling. Mutas help keep dps up if they forcefield and if they don't banes destroy most gateway armies. Plus I try to send some banes to mineral lines during big engagements since most people don't react fast enough to stop it.


Thanks, that's the general idea I'm looking for if I decide to abandon my current ZvZ. It sounds like we're around the same level, so I'm pretty sure you're better at ZvZ than I am .

Actually, that's one use I've had for muta harass as well, that I forgot to mention. I try to threaten their front with speedlings while I go into their main for muta harass. If so, sometimes Protoss will have zealot/sentry at their front, and all their stalkers in the back. If so, I try to sweep around with my mutas and kill as many sentries as I can. If successful, Protoss is in a pretty rough spot.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#83 (TLMC 22 Edition)
PiGStarcraft609
CranKy Ducklings37
davetesta32
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft609
ProTech82
Nina 27
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5440
Dota 2
monkeys_forever432
NeuroSwarm97
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift4563
JimRising 653
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1461
taco 346
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe69
Other Games
summit1g12149
tarik_tv5345
C9.Mang0573
Artosis341
ViBE180
Mew2King137
Maynarde122
WinterStarcraft100
minikerr13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1129
Counter-Strike
PGL291
Other Games
BasetradeTV199
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 56
• EnkiAlexander 28
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1475
Upcoming Events
GSL
7h 44m
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
13h 14m
Replay Cast
22h 14m
GSL
1d 7h
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 10h
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
1d 17h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
3 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.