• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:44
CEST 01:44
KST 08:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash2[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy9ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group D [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5938 users

Ladder Report 2.3

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-03 01:13:38
June 02 2011 22:19 GMT
#1
I've got a lot going on in my life right now. Moving out, trying to meet people, live more healthily, find a good job, etc. But I did manage to find time to play some games recently.

1v1:

Zerg(29 games)
(14)ZvZ: 7-7 50.0%
(8)ZvP: 4- 4 50.0%
(7)ZvT: 5- 2 71.4%

16-13 55.1%

This Season:
Zerg(71 games)
(28)ZvZ: 16-12 57.1%
(30)ZvP: 18-12 60.0%
(13)ZvT: 8- 5 61.5%

42-29 59.1%

I've noticed a general trend in the players I've been playing against, namely that they are starting to expand earlier and get 3rd bases quickly and safely. I'm running into stronger openings too. After that winning streak I had last report, I'm getting matched up against much tougher opponents on average. Also, I finally got promoted to masters once they fixed whatever bug was going on.

ZvZ:
Okay, my last report went quite in-depth regarding a big problem with my ZvZ, and I've since tried several ways to fix it, and none have worked. I've been racking my brain over this. The general problem is that my build is a bit on the "cheesy" side, which I'm not necessarily against, since IMO it's pretty strong (or at least that was my opinion). The problem is that if my opponent gets a baneling nest before 5:00, my attack is pretty much doomed, and further, I have no way to defend his imminent attack. I've tried sim-cities and sunks and backstabs, and sometimes they have worked, but they've been working less and less lately, because they just aren't good answers. And baneling nest by 5:00 is pretty much standard for 14/14 speedling/baneling AFAIK.

I have one more potential solution. Normally, building a roach warren upon scouting their baneling nest just doesn't work, because it would take just a bit too long. But one option is to build the roach warren at around 5 minutes, get a scouting ling in to see if there's a baneling nest building, cancel and continue with my build if there isn't, or get roaches out in time to help defend the banelings if there is. But I honestly don't think this is a very good solution either.

I may have to give up my build and adopt something stronger.

Any suggestions? What ZvZ builds do you guys use and why?

ZvT:
I've played several custom games with my practice partner who plays Terran, and it has definitely improved my ZvT. I'm still a bit shaky, because as I mentioned before, it seems like every game is unique, trying to figure out what my opponent is gonna throw at me, and if it's going to include a dozen SCVs with it or not. But still I have gained some confidence in this matchup.

Recently I'm really liking roach/baneling to deal with tank/marine compositions. Banelings force the marines to run (and kill some) while the roaches clean up the tanks and chase down marines after. What seems really great is that, if I win convincingly on the field, I can just steamroll right in. Banelings can blow up walls/bunkers, and the roaches can just be too much to stop. Of course, even if I go roach/baneling, I still need to get a spire to deal with drops and to give myself a tech switch to muta/ling if they start to switch over to tank/marauder too heavily.

Another thing I've started doing is placing sunks in all my bases once I've got a strong 3+ base economy going. Even if I have a ball of mutas, Terrans are making use of dropping main and 3rd while advancing with their tank/marine line on the field, and the mutas just can't be everywhere at once. I can't split my mutas either, because they'll fall to easily trying to clean up drops. Drops really are just a pain in the ass. So the point of sunks is just to buy time to save my drones/hatch while I get something there to clean up the drop.

I really don't get why I don't run into many Terrans on ladder.

ZvP:
I've been running into stronger Protoss opponents as of late. 3base max -> push with good macro is giving me trouble. Sometimes, I'm unsure if my current plan of muta harass first into mass roach is all that great. The mutas are such a large investment. Admittedly, their goal is to harass, scout, and discourage colossi or immortal, but it just seems like I could have so many more roaches if I skipped that.

I'm gonna try out some new things in this matchup and see what feels right.

Questions, comments, and constructive criticism welcome.

*****
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
June 02 2011 22:31 GMT
#2
My ZvZ build, that almost always gets me to a macro game (my intended goal) is to do 14gas/14 pool. Get 100 gas and pull drones off. Expand with the first (4) lings out, keep drones off gas and when the first queen comes out immediately build a second queen. Then roach warren and two drones back on gas. This allows enough queens to block ramp in case of banes, fast roach warren should stop anything else and it gets an expo up pretty quick. This works pretty well at low masters, but your level might mean they know how to exploit it better, or have better control.

Anyway, try it out if it sounds good and let me know if I need to change it up to get higher

ZvP right now I am loving muta/ling/bling. Mutas help keep dps up if they forcefield and if they don't banes destroy most gateway armies. Plus I try to send some banes to mineral lines during big engagements since most people don't react fast enough to stop it.
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
June 02 2011 23:03 GMT
#3
On June 03 2011 07:31 imPERSONater wrote:
My ZvZ build, that almost always gets me to a macro game (my intended goal) is to do 14gas/14 pool. Get 100 gas and pull drones off. Expand with the first (4) lings out, keep drones off gas and when the first queen comes out immediately build a second queen. Then roach warren and two drones back on gas. This allows enough queens to block ramp in case of banes, fast roach warren should stop anything else and it gets an expo up pretty quick. This works pretty well at low masters, but your level might mean they know how to exploit it better, or have better control.

Anyway, try it out if it sounds good and let me know if I need to change it up to get higher

ZvP right now I am loving muta/ling/bling. Mutas help keep dps up if they forcefield and if they don't banes destroy most gateway armies. Plus I try to send some banes to mineral lines during big engagements since most people don't react fast enough to stop it.


Thanks, that's the general idea I'm looking for if I decide to abandon my current ZvZ. It sounds like we're around the same level, so I'm pretty sure you're better at ZvZ than I am .

Actually, that's one use I've had for muta harass as well, that I forgot to mention. I try to threaten their front with speedlings while I go into their main for muta harass. If so, sometimes Protoss will have zealot/sentry at their front, and all their stalkers in the back. If so, I try to sweep around with my mutas and kill as many sentries as I can. If successful, Protoss is in a pretty rough spot.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
S22 - Open Qualifier #4
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 191
Ketroc 79
JuggernautJason9
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1291
Artosis 690
NaDa 19
Bale 11
Shine 10
Other Games
summit1g11260
Liquid`RaSZi1651
C9.Mang0353
Mew2King53
Maynarde6
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH189
• davetesta41
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21426
• Scarra698
Other Games
• imaqtpie1490
• Shiphtur144
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
16m
Replay Cast
9h 16m
Afreeca Starleague
10h 16m
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
11h 16m
Monday Night Weeklies
16h 16m
OSC
1d
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 10h
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-27
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Proleague 2026-03-29
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.