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Do people really watch the GSL to see Koreans?

Blogs > SlipperySnake
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SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
May 16 2011 07:26 GMT
#1
Lately I was listening to the most recent State of the Game episode 38 and there was an in depth discussion of the MLG-GSL exchange program. The hosts generally agreed to an interesting side point which I think deserves more discussion. Basically it was agreed that non-koreans already watch the GSL and they do it to see Koreans.

I just feel like a lot of the media at least that I have been listening to has this bias that GSL is the best and so everyone watches it. This just isn't simply the case at least for me, personally I don't give a shit about the GSL. When it was the only league out there than I was interested but it is just full of players I could care less about because there is no personality and I don't watch their streams on a regular basis. GSL is often said to have the best players but I personally don't think that is the end all be all. Also taken for granted is that they have the best production but the fact is often you have to hear the casters bullshit forever if you are watching it live before you get to the next game. All I am saying is that there seems to be this myopic view of GSL as the ultimate league but personally as a spectator it has got to be at the bottom of my list when compared to IPL, NASL, and TSL.

Does anyone else prefer other leagues or think that watching their favorite player is more important than watching the 'best' competition? I am just wondering if there are others out here who feel the same way that there is more to just being a spectator than the forgone conclusion that the Koreans are the best and therefore the best to watch.

*
DocNemesis
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Philippines446 Posts
May 16 2011 07:39 GMT
#2
GSL is good, but if you ask me, I like that and the IGN Pro Leagues.
Here to kick ass....with Violence. And I got a blog site: http://nemesistrestkon.wordpress.com
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
May 16 2011 07:43 GMT
#3
I watch a lot of the GSL games, but if there is a foreigner playing in it, I pretty much stay up to watch the game live 90% of the time.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
anatem
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania1369 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 07:49:09
May 16 2011 07:46 GMT
#4
i don't care about watching weak games because x guy is nice and i can relate to his social background, this is sports, i want to see the best going at it if i'm gonna waste my time.

plus, the GSL has the best production value of all major tournaments, and having the biggest competition and rivalries, it provides the most drama, which translates to fun.

and there's plenty of personality with the koreans, it's not like BW, these people are mostly chilled out, trash talk, have ceremonies, give interviews to foreign sites, let artosis visit them with a camera, shit like that.

not to mention you need to have reasons for a player to be your favorite, i can understand having tlo or spanishiwa for creativity, or tyler or incontrol for their awesome personalities because they're oldschool, but outside the likes of idra, why would i care for a player who plays standard and may be good by western standards but can't really be compared to the very top tier. i mean, i will enjoy following several, but they're not gonna be my focus for the time i spend watching sc2, there's no reason they should be.

IPL and NASL ? waste of time, you get maybe 2-3 games worth watching per day of broadcast, and even those are subpar compared to the level of most GSL matches. that the koreans are better isn't a foregone conclusion, it's a conclusion that stands true based on trial and error and any objective approach you can bring to the level of play.

it is everyone's right to watch whatever they like, some like socke's long hair more than MC's dropjaw micro, or thorzain's sad face more than MVP's perfect positional play and macro, it's all good.

-edited spelling-
'Tis with our Judgements as our Watches, none / Go just alike, yet each believes his own.
SirJolt
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
May 16 2011 07:53 GMT
#5
I watch the GSL largely for the casters and the fact that, now that I've started to get a handle on who's who, the players are starting to flesh out a bit and develop a bit of personality in my mind.

That said, I watch it with the girlfriend, who has no idea about SC2 at all, but who just loves hearing Artosis and Tasteless banter. So far, nobody else has managed to inspire that.
Moderator@SirJolt
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
May 16 2011 07:58 GMT
#6
While I'm sure there's plenty of people who watch it for the Koreans, personally I only really watch it for the foreigners (Huk/Jinro fighting!) and the awesome casting. Other than that however, I don't really have more interest in the Koreans than I would any other player, and the GSL is on so late that it's insensible for me to stay up for it most of the time.
SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
May 16 2011 07:58 GMT
#7
On May 16 2011 16:46 anatem wrote:
i don't care about watching weak games because x guy is nice and i can relate to his social background, this is sports, i want to see the best going at it if i'm gonna waste my time.

plus, the GSL has the best production value of all major tournaments, and having the biggest competition and rivalries, it provides the most drama, which translates to fun.

and there's plenty of personality with the koreans, it's not like BW, these people are mostly chilled out, trash talk, have ceremonies, give interviews to foreign sites, let artosis visit them with a camera, shit like that.

not to mention you need to have reasons for a player to be your favorite, i can understand having tlo or spanishiwa for creativity, or tyler or incontrol for their awesome personalities because they're oldschool, but outside the likes of idra, why would i care for a player who plays standard and may be good by western standards but can't really be compared to the very top tier. i mean, i will enjoy following several, but they're not gonna be my focus for the time i spend watching sc2, there's no reason they should be.

IPL and NASL ? waste of time, you get maybe 2-3 games worth watching per day of broadcast, and even those are subpar compared to the level of most GSL matches. that the koreans are better isn't a foregone conclusion, it's a conclusion that stands true based on trial and error and any objective approach you can bring to the level of play.

it is everyone's right to watch whatever they like, some like socke's long hair more than MC's dropjaw micro, or thorzain's sad face more than MVP's perfect positional play and macro, it's all good.

-edited spelling-


I guess if you are watching nothing but the league an reading articles then you can get some opinion but I have access to Incontrol, Tyler, and Idra for almost 2 hours every week just through state of the game. I care way more to watch them compete than a bunch of random dudes I only get to see play in a league. I am not saying the GSL is bad but seriously I just don't get to watch anything outside the tournament of any of the players. This means that the only way to get into the league is to watch the league unless you have a specific player you want to watch.

Also to me I don't see this huge gap in play between the tournaments, are you really going to tell me that the TSL wasn't full of epic series. I mean after that GSL 4-0 stomp........
Daozzt
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1263 Posts
May 16 2011 08:12 GMT
#8
It's a habit that's carried on from Broodwar. People watched Koreans back then because they were the best, and the Korean scene was the the only "professional" scene.

It's the same thing in SC2. People assumed Koreans were the best (they still are, but the gap's not as large), so GSL generated a lot of hype. Because of this, people view the GSL and the Korean scene as the benchmark for gauging absolute skill or whatever you want to call it. It's always going to be like this unless the West steps up, or the Koreans get progressively worse, which I doubt will happen.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
May 16 2011 08:55 GMT
#9
Because the GSL has production quality way beyond anything in the Sc2 E-sport scene.

Live players(you can see them playing)
Live booths
Live audience
Live casters

Kpop introductions, music, pyrotechnics, lighting

Aside from that Koreans in general are on a much higher level, Idra even stated that he feels there is little competition for him in NA since he got back afaik.

On top of that the trend carried on from the BW days.

The NASL's/IPL production qualities are not even near the GSL, as for the TSL, their production quality is also not even near the GSL but it is a community driven event from Teamliquid, hence its usual that you get a biased opinion of it and that you feel an attachment to it(its only natural).

You may call the Koreans no-names, but so are many for me, I only know Idra and perhaps Thorzain and Naniwa now and some of the teamliquid players and old Warcraft III folks.

But they have no face, I don't even see them play, I don't even see their emotions, I don't see anything. All I see is a game with 2 players controlling their units.

The TSL was epic because it was made epic with the hype surrounding the community, you also took a very skewed example of the TSL series and compare it with the 4-0 GSL stomp, Now compare it to Nestea and SCfou series.
In general koreans play at a higher level then the foreigners, and people simply want to watch the best.

Korea has the infrastructure of E-sports, they were also the first to start a large league, I mean its funny how you don't mention the Taiwanese Starleague for example, yet it is large and it is there.
WriterXiao8~~
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
May 16 2011 09:01 GMT
#10
hmmmm kpop introductions isnt really in the favour of gsl =/
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
poundcakes
Profile Joined March 2011
Norway239 Posts
May 16 2011 09:05 GMT
#11
I watch the GSL for great games of Starcraft, Korean or not, they've delivered since I started watching in season three.
The cur foretells the knell of parting day; The loafing herd winds slowly o'er the lea; The wise man homeward plods; I only stay to fiddle-faddle in a minor key.
Clicker
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 09:06:53
May 16 2011 09:05 GMT
#12
I'm new to SC2 and the e-sports scene in general. However, I found GSL season 1 at the very end and fell in love. The amazing games, the production, the casters, everything.

Yeah, it's not as fun to watch without many foreigners, but for me personally, I take mental notes of good/entertaining play. I remember those players, and they become just as fun to watch as a foreigner.

I mean with most foreigners, they practice with teammates or just ladder/stream all day. With Koreans, they're actually dedicated to practice. And it shows in most of their games. You have to appreciate that.


Edit: I'd like to add, it was either Tyler or Inc that said, Koreans don't have a natural talent for SC - they just practice harder. And it's true. And that practice will always lead to better games.
Bartiemus
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand84 Posts
May 16 2011 09:06 GMT
#13
I pretty much always watch Code S tastetosis do a great job comentating I only watch code A if are non Koreans in it
Id rather just kill you and call it a day.
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 16 2011 09:20 GMT
#14
On May 16 2011 18:01 Legatus Lanius wrote:
hmmmm kpop introductions isnt really in the favour of gsl =/

heresy! It's definitely a plus for me
d=(^_^)z
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-16 10:55:53
May 16 2011 10:54 GMT
#15
For some reason the GSL doesn't manage to excite me as much as the European or North American leagues, the games all seem to be boring and i don't even care much about the players.

The skill of westerners might be lower, but they still manage to create extremely long and exciting games while most korean games i watched end before the 20 minute mark and mostly consist of 2-3 base play or 1-base all-ins.

Koreans might have perfect mechanics, but they really seem to lack the creativity common for many foreigners. They have no TLO, Spanishiwa, MorroW, CatZ, *trying to think of a creative protoss*, ...

Well, maybe i just haven't watched enough GSL matches.


Edit:
Also, this:
On May 16 2011 18:01 Legatus Lanius wrote:
hmmmm kpop introductions isnt really in the favour of gsl =/

Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
May 16 2011 11:09 GMT
#16
On May 16 2011 16:46 anatem wrote:
i don't care about watching weak games because x guy is nice and i can relate to his social background, this is sports, i want to see the best going at it if i'm gonna waste my time.


Weird how you make it sound that people don't follow and support players and teams for personal and social backgrounds (or at least nationality) in "sports", when that's actually really common (even standard) in popular conventional sports .

Every real football fan follows and supports their local club or a club they have some personal or emotional connection with and care about rather than watching only "the best", no matter how good or bad their club is. People will gladly watch the most dreadful, defensive, pure physical game and still be happy if their team wins in the end.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong because you only want to see the best, because as you said people watch what they like. I'm just trying to say that the concept (and philosophy if you will =p) of sports and competing in general doesn't only revolve around the best teams/players in the world.
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
May 16 2011 11:14 GMT
#17
I think the top players from Korea and outside Korea are all very evenly matched. Some people say that foreigners don't do that great in the GSL, but it's really tough living abroad and also there are always way more Koreans than foreigners so it's pretty much a numbers game.
I watch GSL very occasionally, but the stream quality isn't great unless you want to pay for it (which I'm not sold on), and I can watch great tournament games almost everyday now with the NASL and other major events(not to mention Day9).
As long as NASL is going strong I think that many people will watch it instead of GSL. It's not about Koreans vs Foreigners, it's about the stream quality and convenience (broadcast time).
No logo (logo)
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 16 2011 11:20 GMT
#18
I watch GSL for Tastosis, who are the perfect mix of irrelevant hilarity and brilliant analysis.

Also, the top Korean players are AMAZING most of the time, and the occasional long, close Korean game is usually quite entertaining, especially with Artosis screaming his lungs out.

Also, GSL being a live production is also very appealing. It's interesting to able to see player reactions in their booths and doing ceremonies during team matches. Such live LAN events aren't as frequent in the non-Korean scene, and the countless online tournaments just don't have the same feeling as a LAN event.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
May 16 2011 11:31 GMT
#19
On May 16 2011 16:26 SlipperySnake wrote:
I just feel like a lot of the media at least that I have been listening to has this bias that GSL is the best and so everyone watches it. This just isn't simply the case at least for me, personally I don't give a shit about the GSL. When it was the only league out there than I was interested but it is just full of players I could care less about because there is no personality and I don't watch their streams on a regular basis.


People keep saying theres no personality in the gsl and that they would rather watch NASL/IPL. I watched IPL and I didnt even see the winners face as he won and Idra declined a postgame interview so what is this personality you speak of? What about the awful TSL3 finals interviews with thorzain and naniwa how much personality did you see there? At least when you see someone get owned in the gsl (see nada vs inca) you can visibly see their face.

You should really make a better argument than GSL players have no personality. What you dislike is that they dont interact with the foreigner community and you dont feel a connection to them.
AzTec
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada178 Posts
May 16 2011 12:10 GMT
#20
Can't say I agree.

GSL has the best players, best casters, and best production.

That's enough to trump the fact that my favourite players aren't in it.
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