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He thinks it is the worst race? Why play it? - Page 2

Blogs > Docta Spaceman
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loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
May 04 2011 20:18 GMT
#21
Because he's been playing Zerg ever since the beta came out, which is basically a year at this point. It would be a huge waste to switch now after all this time, especially considering the game's flaws should be addressed soon. On top of that he says he likes Zerg and its fits his style. Not sure why you didn't just do a search, Idras answered this like 10 times already.
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
May 04 2011 20:39 GMT
#22
Idra took the race he thought the most disadvantaged in BW. He did so again in SC2. He likes complaining about both yet still plays them.

I say he's a masochist.
Glaven
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada554 Posts
May 04 2011 20:51 GMT
#23
why do people bring this up, he's explained it hundreds of times -_-
Special Tactics
snorlax
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States755 Posts
May 04 2011 20:56 GMT
#24
Idra started playing Z because him and artosis thought it was going to be the best race and it fit his play-style better, he kept playing it because of his pride. I think I would agree with david, its easy to feel weekness in your race because you can see your weaknesses and what your having a hard time with
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
May 04 2011 20:59 GMT
#25
I honestly think he is just using his position to try and influence balance changes by Blizzard in the future.
No logo (logo)
ExquisiteRed
Profile Joined February 2011
396 Posts
May 04 2011 21:01 GMT
#26
Why did you neeed to make a blog about this, he has answered this question many times. Or you could have just used comon sense to deduce that 1) It would take a long time (months and months) to good enough with another race to be competitive and 2)There's always the chance that blizzard fixes something and then he'd just have just switched for nothing.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
May 04 2011 21:15 GMT
#27
On May 05 2011 06:01 ExquisiteRed wrote:
Why did you neeed to make a blog about this, he has answered this question many times. Or you could have just used comon sense to deduce that 1) It would take a long time (months and months) to good enough with another race to be competitive and 2)There's always the chance that blizzard fixes something and then he'd just have just switched for nothing.

didn't he say that a few months ago? he would've profited from switching. then again Terran was probably OP back then
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
May 04 2011 21:19 GMT
#28
I recall him saying the exact same things like 2 months after SC2's release, too. If he just switched back then, maybe he wouldn't continue to be sitting around waiting for a miracle to happen?

Its nothing but ego. He wants to feel like he's superior, and that he's just getting held-back because the powers-that-be haven't figured it out, yet.
eNtitY~
Profile Joined January 2007
United States1293 Posts
May 04 2011 21:28 GMT
#29
On May 05 2011 04:38 NoobSh1t wrote:
IdrA has honestly answered this question a million times.... Go do some research before making a thread about it.

Blizzard will eventually patch zerg, so why would he switch races and have to put a TON of time into learning this new race? He's waiting it out, it's better.

This is what idrA has stated multiple times
/thread



As well as him saying Zerg fits his playstyle more than T or P. Can't believe so many noobs don't realize this.
http://www.starcraftdream.com
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 21:42:46
May 04 2011 21:36 GMT
#30
The entire SC2 mess aside, we're talking about a person who has claimed, since forever, that Terran is the weakest race in Brood War, and that Brood War is imbalanced but that somehow, mysteriously, everything comes together nicely.

The way he perceives "imbalance" or, recently, "bad game design" makes it impossible to reason with him on the subject. If he sees balance issues in Brood War after over a decade of it being a professional esport played on a very high level, no matter which game you have him play, he will find balance issues in it as well.

It's in the nature of many gamers to perceive every game problem that they don't know how to solve as a balance issue. Here are 3 basic steps in Idra's imbalance logic:

1) Describe the latest gameplay problems of his race.
2) State that he doesn't know how to solve these problems.
3) Declare imbalance.
4) Challenge anyone who disagrees to solve the problems.

He literally makes an instant jump from "I/We/You don't know how to deal with this" to "it's impossible/unfair".

I guarantee you that he will NEVER be happy with the state of the game balance-wise (not in this game, not in any other game). Even if he switched race to Protoss, the moment Zergs find a way to deal with Protoss late game maxed army or a patch comes out and the moment current Protoss standards (which are really bad by the way) stop working, he will once again declare imbalance as he will see no way Protoss can keep up in economy while turtling, or whatever.

Ultimately, his idea that you should be able to play Starcraft completely "safely" without paying for that safety (by ether having a bad economy or being unable to do any aggression or scout) will never be implemented in the game, because it is contrary to Starcraft principles.
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 22:01:07
May 04 2011 21:53 GMT
#31
It's been already mentioned quite often that most of the pros during beta felt that Zerg would have the most options overall and had a higher skill ceiling. Idra since says that it takes a long time to successfully transition out of his current level and game knowledge to a different race.

Edit:
I also want to point out:
On May 05 2011 06:36 Talin wrote:
1) Describe the latest gameplay problems of his race.
2) State that he doesn't know how to solve these problems.
3) Declare imbalance.
4) Challenge anyone who disagrees to solve the problems.

He literally makes an instant jump from "I/We/You don't know how to deal with this" to "it's impossible/unfair".


If you listen to that podcast again it never really gets heated, but Idra asks two simple questions of Day9; how can Zerg scout efficiently in the early game (when Protoss and Terran can) AND/OR if they can't obtain that intel, how can Zerg defend efficiently without it being at best 50/50 (especially since they cannot wall-in).

I KNOW that nobody can answer this question, or they would be already a wildly successful Zerg to which there are currently none (Idra admits he won IPL since it was filled with very weak players - the only competitors were Kiwi and Select pretty much).

Day9 could not answer it plain and simple, I love Day9, but biases aside he at best said we need to approach it from different angles. As one-sided as Idra is, I'm more tended to agree with a progamer than a theorycrafter.
the farm ends here
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 22:19:02
May 04 2011 22:11 GMT
#32
On May 05 2011 03:38 Docta Spaceman wrote:
[...] But while he was talking to Sean about balance and whatnot (which I enjoyed for the first 3 minutes or so before it got a little less friendly and less productive)[...]


For the discussion's sake, how could you not enjoy the last part of the IdrA-Day[9]-argument? I thought it was absolutely productive showing that IdrA made some points that Day[9] could not address. It's like we finally know that (at least the members of SotG) can't argue with him other than ridicule him or saying "the game is young" (which again, doesn't contradict any of IdrA's points).

Call me a fanboy (I am). But I just love those moments in discussions when the one side has pushed the other side in a corner, displaying that there's no arguing about a certain point. You never get to see that in politics =)

edit: oh yeah, and what the poster above me said!
Always smile~
Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 04 2011 22:30 GMT
#33
Okay guys, I didn't make a blog asking why Idra plays Zerg. Nowhere in the OP did I ask that. Nowhere. I was hoping people would answer my actual question, which actually has merit and probably hasn't been thoroughly discussed. Which is what I would like to do.
Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 04 2011 22:36 GMT
#34
On May 05 2011 04:38 NoobSh1t wrote:
IdrA has honestly answered this question a million times.... Go do some research before making a thread about it.

Blizzard will eventually patch zerg, so why would he switch races and have to put a TON of time into learning this new race? He's waiting it out, it's better.

This is what idrA has stated multiple times
/thread


I'm not asking why he chose Zerg. I'm asking why pros often view their race as UP.

As Idra described last night, the problems he sees with Zerg are not balance related, but rather a 'fundamental game-design problem.' Not that roaches are too weak, or that Ultras are useless, or any of that nonsense, but rather a fundamental problem with Zerg DESIGN, related to early scouting and early aggression. He explained that last night on SOTG. He knows, just like everyone else, that Blizz can't just patch that. So he isn't waiting for Blizzard to patch Zerg. He knows its a problem that can't be changed. Blizzard can't patch that problem without creating a new game. But I don't know why I'd even go into that, as this isn't even related to what I'm talking about in the OP.

Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 04 2011 22:43 GMT
#35
On May 05 2011 05:39 o3.power91 wrote:
Idra took the race he thought the most disadvantaged in BW. He did so again in SC2. He likes complaining about both yet still plays them.

I say he's a masochist.


But did he pick the race because he thought it was weak, or did he think the race was weak after playing it for a long time? I think it's the latter, and I'm wondering why that occurs with many professionals.
Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 04 2011 22:47 GMT
#36
On May 05 2011 06:01 ExquisiteRed wrote:
Why did you neeed to make a blog about this, he has answered this question many times. Or you could have just used comon sense to deduce that 1) It would take a long time (months and months) to good enough with another race to be competitive and 2)There's always the chance that blizzard fixes something and then he'd just have just switched for nothing.


Because I never asked that question. I'm actually asking a legitimate question, which I wish you had read. I wish we could have a discussion about what I asked and throw out the statements of "Blizz will patch it so why switch" which is clearly not compatible with what Idra said last night on SOTG.
Docta Spaceman
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States74 Posts
May 04 2011 22:54 GMT
#37
On May 05 2011 07:11 Spekulatius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2011 03:38 Docta Spaceman wrote:
[...] But while he was talking to Sean about balance and whatnot (which I enjoyed for the first 3 minutes or so before it got a little less friendly and less productive)[...]


For the discussion's sake, how could you not enjoy the last part of the IdrA-Day[9]-argument? I thought it was absolutely productive showing that IdrA made some points that Day[9] could not address. It's like we finally know that (at least the members of SotG) can't argue with him other than ridicule him or saying "the game is young" (which again, doesn't contradict any of IdrA's points).

Call me a fanboy (I am). But I just love those moments in discussions when the one side has pushed the other side in a corner, displaying that there's no arguing about a certain point. You never get to see that in politics =)

edit: oh yeah, and what the poster above me said!


Well, I thought that ultimately their points begin to boil down to two different things. From how I saw it, Idra's point came down to him believing that there was a fundamental game design fly, while Day9 was saying that eventually, everything will come to a balanced state. Those statements aren't contradictory, so the discussion wasn't that great. They were arguing about different things that were based on judgments on each other's assumed views.

But it was something we rarely get to see- a professional gamer debating with the thought hammer. The fact that it happened was great, but I thought they weren't really on the same level.
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