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MestR
Sweden6 Posts
So what I'm wondering is if the game will become more interesting to watch as the players gets better or is the game flawed in it's design (and then what is the flaws)? But I really think it's a shame how the game is played right now. If this thread was posted already (I did a search but found nothing) please post that thread instead and mods can close this one.  | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
Obviously as an amateur player I'm not qualified to comment. | ||
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
There are some flaws with SC2 that might prevent it from reaching the stage of SC1 such as: -You can't safely saturate more than 3 bases -Maps are too small (something that may or may not be fixed.. since big maps so far have lead towards turtle up then push with deathabll) -Units are too powerful, resulting in deathballs being too strong, or that sending reinforcements into losing battles is a waste because the enemy units will clean them up too efficiently | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On April 13 2011 03:49 SovSov wrote: Brood War was everything, depending on how the player wanted to play. There are some flaws with SC2 that might prevent it from reaching the stage of SC1 such as: -You can't safely saturate more than 3 bases -Maps are too small (something that may or may not be fixed.. since big maps so far have lead towards turtle up then push with deathabll) -Units are too powerful, resulting in deathballs being too strong, or that sending reinforcements into losing battles is a waste because the enemy units will clean them up too efficiently I dont know about not being able to saturate more than 3 bases, i think as we go forward we will see more workers and less army more often. This is a really recent thing, and thus probably not that impactful or indicitive of play, but whitera has been expanding like a beast and having upwards of 90 workers most games during the DH invitational and has been smashing Terrans. Infact i've seen more and more protoss players going for massive economy and smashing thru the larger T/Z army with good forcefields, positioning and control. I think we can make no honest judgements about how much potential SC2 really has, since BW was an expansion and took years to balance right (with more spread out patching). SC2 has 2 expansions to come, which will dramatically alter the game no doubt. I personally think the fix to most of sc2's problems at the pro level would be an 250 supply cap, aloowing for more workers and thus more expansions, or bigger armies and therefore the ability to do multi-drops and still have a sizeable main army, perhaps even a combination of the two. | ||
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
EDIT: Accidently posted early. Another thing is the way base saturation works and the economics of sc2. The fact that workers in scbw brought back a such higher return and that expanding counted for so much more in it is vastly different from sc2. The mechanics of mules, chrono and larvae injects is also another major contributer to this. The game favours aggressive play where as brood war favoured expanding defending and denying expos. Major army confrontations were not ideal especially with the clunkier unit pathing and army control. I think there's probably a lot of other factors that you could look at, but these things are very important to look at when you compare the two games. In the end I don't think it's fair to compare a game in infancy and a game thats been out forever | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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The.Doctor
Canada333 Posts
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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FreezerJumps
Canada653 Posts
Second, it took years for every tiny little timing to be figured out in BW, to the point that pros know the response to almost everything, and they know how to exploit whatever advantages they have. They know when they can get out an extra command center, they know when they can afford to split their army. Until all the very fine details are worked out, SC2 can't compare. For example, when can a protoss afford to stop colossus production long enough to make a warp prism? If he does so too early, how does a terran respond? If he does it too late, how can a terran benefit from that? Small decisions like these have been trained through for hours and days and weeks by BW pros, and the result is that they do as much as they can get away with. It's very possible that qxc's mass drop style isn't viable at all, but until someone figures out how to punish exact drop timings, the drops will continue. When mass muta was popular in PvZ, it wasn't because it was overpowered, or the best build. It was because no one had figured out how to punish it. Enter the 6gate timing attack, and now mass muta is all but obsolete. Let's say every terran starts dropping 8 marines at 9:15, doing some damage and getting out. That will continue until someone finds a way, similar to the 6gate, to completely shut it down. Repeat this process for every conceivable attack timing, strategy, expand timing and army composition, and you're looking at the top level of pro Brood War. Every terran knows when mutas will attack his base. If he doesn't have enough turrets in time, he loses. Every zerg knows when to place sunkens at his natural, because if he doesn't, a medic/marine attack will roll him before mutas are out. Every zerg knows when to get a spire in PvZ, because if he doesn't, corsairs will kill all of his overlords and contain him. Every little BW timing leaves a very narrow window in which things must be done. When you miss a window, and your opponent scouts it, he will exploit it, and you will lose. In SC2, we don't know all the timing windows, so people get away with a lot. It will take years to figure all of these timings out, and until that happens, we'll continue to see what we're seeing now. | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
They're different games, and one is newer while one is really old. Defense timings take longer to figure out than attack timings, so one base play was really strong, then two-base play was really strong, and only recently have 3+ bases been normal (thanks in large part to the GSL maps, and the Blizzard maps being better than they used to be as well). We're starting to see players get really creative in builds and break rules by choosing to supply drop (iEchoic) or delaying gas for an absurdly long time as Zerg (Spanishiwa). The game's developing. It's not a shiner Brood War, and players are starting to take advantage of it more and more. | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On April 13 2011 03:57 emythrel wrote: I dont know about not being able to saturate more than 3 bases, i think as we go forward we will see more workers and less army more often. . What? That doesn't make sense if I see someone with 120 workers and 80 supply in army I'm going to stop worker count at 50 or 60 and just a move him with my 1 1/2 x stronger army. | ||
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Essentia
1150 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:34 Denzil wrote: What? That doesn't make sense if I see someone with 120 workers and 80 supply in army I'm going to stop worker count at 50 or 60 and just a move him with my 1 1/2 x stronger army. We will never see more than 3 base saturation being "standard" | ||
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Samhax
1054 Posts
Important differences are : -split your workers between more than 3 basis doesn't increase a lot your income that's why 3basis in sc2 is quite late game (lalush post). I wish blizzard change this part of the game (16 workers saturation instead of 24 per base for example) and reward people who expand the most. -Macro mechanics (larva inject, chrono, mules) boost alot your economy in sc2, it makes you reach 200pop faster then bw. You can for exemple reach 200 pop on 2 basis, in bw you need at least 3 basis. -counter units are a lot more important in sc2, you can lose like nothing if you don't have the good unit mix even if you are ahead in eco. In bw eco>unit mix | ||
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Jeremyy
Canada182 Posts
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
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Rodiel3
France1158 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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